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General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

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Old Yesterday, 08:13   #2986
kjclow
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Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
As i mentioned, though.. there should be no reason to need to upgrade the entire home just to add EV charging capability. I have seen plenty of old homes with a new service panel feeding 'new' loads, and the original panel and wiring still in place and running as a subpanel from the new one. Cheap to do, and relatively low impact. This provides a decent base to allow future renovations to easily eliminate the old ungrounded wiring a little at a time, with new circuits running to the new service panel, until the old panel is relieved of its duties. In any case, it has little to no impact on the viability of EV's. $1,000 for the new service panel install (that's if paying someone to do it), and $300 to run power to the garage, and $400 for a charger (if you even need one - depending on needs, many (myself included) get by just fine with the 12A 120V EVSE that came with the car.

Many states offer tax incentive and credits for ev charging infrastructure, and this can often installation costs (in this case, the new service panel would be a part of the EVSE install).
We did this 30 years ago when we bought our first house. The previous owner paid for part of it since the service coming in wasn't up to code anyway. The electrician then separated the lights and plug services from any higher loads, such as laundry, kitchen, and furnace blower. His comment then was if the knob and tube was in good shape, live it alone.
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Old Today, 09:51   #2987
SilverGhost
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The towing/hauling problem I have run into is payload. For example you can get a Tacoma that has the towing capacity for the occasional towing, but when RV'ing you bring the family and stuff. So tow a 3500lb trailer with tow capacity of 5000lbs, BUUUT payload is only 1150lbs and between tongue weight and several people you bump against that limit before you even put bikes and coolers in the bed of the truck.

BTW - rough numbers for example. Options such as AC, sunroof, power seats, 4X4 and transmission will affect payload and the exact numbers.

But this is part of the reasoning why people are driving around in big 1/2 ton and even 3/4 and 1 tons as daily drivers. And like others have said, if I just dropped $50k to $60k on a truck, I'm not going to buy a car just to save gas the rest of the time. The tax, insurance, license, and purchase price of a second vehicle would buy a lot of fuel for the gas hog.

Change of subject.

I am surprised code does not require update from K&T when the circuit is touched. And by replacing the main breaker all circuits would be touched. Supposed that depends on locality and more specific to the actual repair/replacement as to what code would require?

On that subject could you add a secondary panel for the garage and/or electric vehicle charging? Tie into mains before existing panel? Also possible some power companies or localities would give tax breaks or incentives to assist in the upgrades?

Oh, and on fast charging - Tesla limits you on how many lifetime fast charges you can do. So the take away is always fast charging does degrade the battery at a faster rate than slow charging. What that means in the real world is use standard charge for most of what you do, like when you get to work and its going to sit all day. Only do fast charge when say battery is run down and emergency such as kids hurt and have to get to doctor, or you are on a long trip for vacation and not practical to wait all day for recharge

If and when we are in the market for a new (not used clunker) car I think an electric would fit at least one of our commutes, if not both. Interesting idea though - who has TWO electric vehicles and has the electric service to handle charging both? Both on capacity of wiring and actual charging hardware.

Jason
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Old Today, 11:59   #2988
bhtooefr
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AFAIK, they're not limiting the number of fast charges you can do, but there is an algorithm at which they limit the rate of fast charging after some unknown parameters that involve high usage of fast chargers. Even on the cars that have been rate limited, the rate is still significantly higher than slow charging.

However, it is still best practice to avoid fast charging unless it's actually needed, for that reason.
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Old Today, 12:04   #2989
Oilerlord
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Interesting idea though - who has TWO electric vehicles and has the electric service to handle charging both? Both on capacity of wiring and actual charging hardware.

Jason
No doubt, some do. I've dreamed about having a Model X in the garage next to my B250e...so assuming we wanted to charge them both simultaneously, we'd have to upgrade the 50 amp service in our garage.

Unfortunately, the realities of life tend to kill those dreams. Even if our second EV had a 100 kWh battery, we'd still need a car like the JSW for long road trips to Arizona, and from experience, I already know that extreme cold cuts an EV's range in half...so what's the point of getting another "long range" EV, when our TDI can do up to 700 miles on one 5-minute "charge"? There's also the bit about the no way, no how we're about to spend $100K+ for another car - ANY car.
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Old Today, 16:06   #2990
nwdiver
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Originally Posted by bhtooefr View Post
AFAIK, they're not limiting the number of fast charges you can do, but there is an algorithm at which they limit the rate of fast charging after some unknown parameters that involve high usage of fast chargers. Even on the cars that have been rate limited, the rate is still significantly higher than slow charging.

However, it is still best practice to avoid fast charging unless it's actually needed, for that reason.
I seriously doubt that Tesla is doing anything to limit fast charge rates. I've been doing road trips for >4 years with >80k fast-charge miles and I haven't seen a change. I haven't seen any direct reports from Tesla to this effect. The best out there is a blogger saying what a service tech had told him... that's not exactly an official position. Compare that to 'HP-Gate'... where there WAS an official statement from Tesla on the matter... they also stopped limiting power a few months later.

A lot of it is speculation because hitting the peak 135kW charge rate relies on a handful of conditions to line up and it only lasts for a couple minutes before tapering off...

Fast charging doesn't directly cause battery degradation. It's heat that's the enemy and with the cooling system Tesla has that's not much of an issue.
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Old Today, 17:57   #2991
CraziFuzzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGhost View Post
The towing/hauling problem I have run into is payload. For example you can get a Tacoma that has the towing capacity for the occasional towing, but when RV'ing you bring the family and stuff. So tow a 3500lb trailer with tow capacity of 5000lbs, BUUUT payload is only 1150lbs and between tongue weight and several people you bump against that limit before you even put bikes and coolers in the bed of the truck.

BTW - rough numbers for example. Options such as AC, sunroof, power seats, 4X4 and transmission will affect payload and the exact numbers.

But this is part of the reasoning why people are driving around in big 1/2 ton and even 3/4 and 1 tons as daily drivers. And like others have said, if I just dropped $50k to $60k on a truck, I'm not going to buy a car just to save gas the rest of the time. The tax, insurance, license, and purchase price of a second vehicle would buy a lot of fuel for the gas hog.

Change of subject.

I am surprised code does not require update from K&T when the circuit is touched. And by replacing the main breaker all circuits would be touched. Supposed that depends on locality and more specific to the actual repair/replacement as to what code would require?

On that subject could you add a secondary panel for the garage and/or electric vehicle charging? Tie into mains before existing panel? Also possible some power companies or localities would give tax breaks or incentives to assist in the upgrades?

Oh, and on fast charging - Tesla limits you on how many lifetime fast charges you can do. So the take away is always fast charging does degrade the battery at a faster rate than slow charging. What that means in the real world is use standard charge for most of what you do, like when you get to work and its going to sit all day. Only do fast charge when say battery is run down and emergency such as kids hurt and have to get to doctor, or you are on a long trip for vacation and not practical to wait all day for recharge

If and when we are in the market for a new (not used clunker) car I think an electric would fit at least one of our commutes, if not both. Interesting idea though - who has TWO electric vehicles and has the electric service to handle charging both? Both on capacity of wiring and actual charging hardware.

Jason
Sure, there are SOME people driving around their tow vehicles as their daily driver, but I see that less and less (at least among my acquaintances). Most (myself included) leave the truck/SUV parked most the time. I think I put 4,000 miles on my Armada in the last year, since getting the fiat - most of that driven on a couple RV'ing road trips, and the few times we were taking 6+ people somewhere. Y'know, using the right vehicle for the task. But for getting myself to and from work, and for picking up the kids from school, the Fiat is perfect - especially nice to be able to sit in the air conditioned car waiting for school to get out without having to run the engine. The lease payment on the fiat is less than the fuel costs for those miles in the Armada, so it costs me almost nothing to have the vehicle over the 'daily driver SUV'. I'm guessing that'd be the same situation for most people driving the big beasts around every day.
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