Car won't start in the cold [Fuel Gelling 101]

Bronco648

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Location
Itasca, IL
TDI
2001 Beetle
I'm having a similar issue to Brandon's:

2001 Beetle (ALH) with 131,500 on the odo. New timing belt and fuel filter @ 112,700 miles.

Up until the ambient temps dropped into the 30s (F), it would start without issue. I have a heated garage (~55º F) and the car will start each morning (slight plume of white smoke - but it's always done that since I've owned it - 4 years). However, after sitting outside in the parking lot, at work, all day, it will need some run-over to get going with the resulting while plume to follow. I initially thought the battery was going but it doesn't seem to lack power to turn the starter (the battery is maybe 3 years old and is VW/Autobahn). I had it up at JasonTDI's place in September. He cleaned the anti-shudder valve and intake manifold. He also checked the timing belt because the dealer didn't install something quite right. I do not know if he checked the injection timing.

Could it be dirty injectors? I've been thinking of running a can of diesel purge for a while now. Could it be anything else?

Sorry, I forgot to add that I use Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement (+ Cetane Boost) with every tank of fuel. I also get my diesel from a station that supplies lots of trucks. The fuel always seems to be fresh and I've never had a fuel issue.

TIA, Dave
 
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Bubba B

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Location
Tooele,Ut
TDI
1998 Bettle, 2011 CC
Your problem sounds almost the exact same. I never did add the fact that the timing belt had been replaced this past spring. I don't know if it was belt stretch that threw it off that bad or a half assed job performed by the dealer. But I would defiantly have the timing checked before looking to much further. I could barley get it started on thirty degree days, and the last two morning it has been seven below and it fires right up.

I have also been using the same fuel additive for the last couple months, since the temps dropped.

Report back what you find.

Brandon
 

Bronco648

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Location
Itasca, IL
TDI
2001 Beetle
The timing belt was checked by JasonTDI. He discovered that the dealer had installed something incorrectly, rectified it and then double checked everything. So, I think that's OK. It may be smart to give him a call to double check. I do not think he checked the injector timing (if that's different). I'm also thinking the injectors may be dirty and that some Diesel Purge may be helpful.

Ironically, the Beetle fired right up last night. Ambient temp was 32º F. It may be a little cooler today and will be colder tomorrow. So, we'll see. One thing I did do was to turn off the seat heater before trying to start the motor. I don't know if that was the issue but it seemed to help. I'm on vacation next week so this may take a little longer to resolve due to that. I will post all of my findings.
 

Bubba B

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Location
Tooele,Ut
TDI
1998 Bettle, 2011 CC
We are talking about the same timing. Defiantly have him check it and make sure it is not retarded. If you can find someone near you with VCDS get ahold of them, it only takes a couple minutes to plug in and check it.
 

jrarno02

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2011
Location
Louisville, KY
TDI
'02 Golf GLS
I assume that my best bet would be to check the timing as well? '02 Golf, timing belt changed at 93k, now has 100k. Starts up on a morning around freezing, but i see the smoke and it sounds like the engine is really whining, while turning it over, and for a split second after it fires up.
 

Da Igloo

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
Jetta
Been away +3 wks.. weather change cool cold colder.. had cold weather prep.. fuel tank + all fluids topped full.. read all threads didn't find my no start issue wtd.. my ride a JETTA Diesel 2.0L DSG 1 yr. old?
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Been away +3 wks.. weather change cool cold colder.. had cold weather prep.. fuel tank + all fluids topped full.. read all threads didn't find my no start issue wtd.. my ride a JETTA Diesel 2.0L DSG 1 yr. old?
Um... are you saying that you have had the intercooler update to keep it from freezing?
 

Bronco648

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Location
Itasca, IL
TDI
2001 Beetle
OK, I finally found time to run a can of Diesel Purge thru the old ALH. No difference. So, I have to assume the injector pump is out of time. I guess it's off to the dealer to have that checked.

EDIT: After reading THIS, I am positive that Jason did not check the injector pump timing. I've been fortunate that the weather has been warm here (above freezing for the most part) and start-ups haven't been that much of an issue. But, it's bound to get colder and I don't want to have to deal with a hard starting engine.
 
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VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Are you sure you want to take it to the dealer to have the injection pump timing checked? :eek:
 

TonyJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Location
Tucson, Az
TDI
'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
Bronco,
Find a GURU near you! Avoid the stealership!

Tony
 

Bubba B

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2011
Location
Tooele,Ut
TDI
1998 Bettle, 2011 CC
Just buy the vag-com and adjust the timing yourself. It will be cheaper than the dealer. I know from experience, I have to learn everything the hard way.
 

Bronco648

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Location
Itasca, IL
TDI
2001 Beetle
Well, I'm pretty fortunate to have a neighbor that's the service manager at the local Dub Dealer. So, they do treat me quite well. True, it's going to cost more but they've done work in the past, have done it well and I trust them.

That said, they will be more $$$ because they charge more per shop hour. I would love to support a local GURU if one was close by. My schedule is pretty tight for the next few weeks. With colder weather on the way, I just don't have a lot of time to waste.

I'd love to buy the software but have no idea where to get it nor how much it will cost. If someone could point me in the right direction, that'd be great.
 

Bronco648

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Location
Itasca, IL
TDI
2001 Beetle
Follow-up: I took my NB to DuPage Auto Werks. They said that everything checked out perfectly; injector pump timing, glow plugs, glow plug wiring, glow plug circuit. They had the car overnight (Thursday, 1/19 to Friday, 1/20). Mother Nature was kind enough to whip up single digit cold (F). The car apparently started hard is it is wont to do. They could find no reason (not for lack of looking/checking). They postulated that I have a "weak" batch of diesel. I have been getting my fuel from the Thornton's Station (Devon Ave & Elmhurst Rd - O'Hare Perimeter) since I've owned the car (3+ years). It's never done this before. So, I'll be trying "diesel premier" from my local BP station (provided they carry it). I have always used Power Service (white bottle) with every tank of diesel (even in Summer). Fuel economy remains in the low 40s (per gallon). So, it's not running horribly but there doesn't seem to be a specific issue, in my case.
 

steffen707

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
01 Jetta GLS TDI
The timing belt was checked by JasonTDI. He discovered that the dealer had installed something incorrectly, rectified it and then double checked everything. So, I think that's OK. It may be smart to give him a call to double check. I do not think he checked the injector timing (if that's different). I'm also thinking the injectors may be dirty and that some Diesel Purge may be helpful.

Ironically, the Beetle fired right up last night. Ambient temp was 32º F. It may be a little cooler today and will be colder tomorrow. So, we'll see. One thing I did do was to turn off the seat heater before trying to start the motor. I don't know if that was the issue but it seemed to help. I'm on vacation next week so this may take a little longer to resolve due to that. I will post all of my findings.
I know this is old, but I too have experienced the hard start in low 30deg weather, my injector timing was also checked by JasonTDI and it was fine. When i had this hard start issue I did have the seat heater on. I wonder if that's sucking extra power from the battery?
 

steffen707

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
01 Jetta GLS TDI
Follow-up: I took my NB to DuPage Auto Werks. They said that everything checked out perfectly; injector pump timing, glow plugs, glow plug wiring, glow plug circuit. They had the car overnight (Thursday, 1/19 to Friday, 1/20). Mother Nature was kind enough to whip up single digit cold (F). The car apparently started hard is it is wont to do. They could find no reason (not for lack of looking/checking). They postulated that I have a "weak" batch of diesel. I have been getting my fuel from the Thornton's Station (Devon Ave & Elmhurst Rd - O'Hare Perimeter) since I've owned the car (3+ years). It's never done this before. So, I'll be trying "diesel premier" from my local BP station (provided they carry it). I have always used Power Service (white bottle) with every tank of diesel (even in Summer). Fuel economy remains in the low 40s (per gallon). So, it's not running horribly but there doesn't seem to be a specific issue, in my case.
Did you ever get the issue figured out? I'm 90 miles north of Madison, trying to track down the issues before it gets cold as I sold my backup vehicle.
 

Richy_T

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Location
Dickson, TN
TDI
2000 Jetta
My wife's TDI beetle had a problem starting in the cold (< 20ish). Turned out to be the o-ring on the t-piece on the fuel filter was letting air in when cold. Took the t-piece off of a good filter and all was good after that.

I can't remember how I diagnosed it now I think back.
 

TDI2000Zim

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
NJ
TDI
VW hat meinen '14 Passat TDiSE getötet.
Left the new Passat TDi SE alone in the garage for a few days (but the heated car garage was never below 32F), and now the car refuses to start.

I left the fuel tank FULL (in fact, did it on purpose to keep the fuel from gelling up).

My guess is that the urea tank in the rear, next to the garage door, was the one who got arthritis.

Anyway, this is annoying for a brand new car.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Left the new Passat TDi SE alone in the garage for a few days (but the heated car garage was never below 32F), and now the car refuses to start.

I left the fuel tank FULL (in fact, did it on purpose to keep the fuel from gelling up).

My guess is that the urea tank in the rear, next to the garage door, was the one who got arthritis.

Anyway, this is annoying for a brand new car.
Sounds more like an iced intercooler. A frozen urea tank won't cause a no start.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Quick question about that link given in the first post. When I click on it I get the message that I do not have permission to view the page. I am logged in properly. Does anyone know what is going on?
fixed, thanks 'dog
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Sounds more like an iced intercooler. A frozen urea tank won't cause a no start.
Passats have an air-to-water intercooler and do not suffer from internal condensation. Zim's problem is something else (not AdBlue, either).
 
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