Porting head,questions again.

dieseljohnny · Dec 22, 2009

Hello again...
Im just in the process of porting my head on my pd150 and was thinking of removing the swirl generating gizmo in the intake ports(completely blanked on technical term).
Would it offer much high end power?
Where i live we rarely see minus 5 celcius.

devonutopia · Dec 22, 2009

I'm not sure how much my head will have taken out of it, but worth speaking to Jabbasport as they seem to be doing some interesting work on flowing the pd130/150 (same part) heads.

borachris · Dec 22, 2009

Did Jabba do your head Jason?

dieseljohnny · Dec 22, 2009

What new turbo did you go fo devonutopia?
Ill try and contact them in the new year.

devonutopia · Dec 23, 2009

"doing" my head. They still have it at the moment.

Got a 2260vk lined up for the rebuild.

dieseljohnny · Dec 25, 2009

Does that turbo have the electronic actuator?

Farfromovin · Dec 25, 2009

Jason- you got a stock bottom end on that ASZ?

So you'll have a huge FMIC, w/m, exhaust, ported head, cam, tuning, gtb2260vk. How about fuel? With that hardware, it seems like you'll be in rod bending territory in short order right?

devonutopia · Dec 25, 2009

tubular manifold too,

But that's why the Rosten rods are going in, so I avoid bending rods in the future.

borachris · Dec 25, 2009

He's got R783's which i think he forgot to mention

Did Jabba tell you what sort of power it will give flow for once done?

How much is it costing if you don't mind me asking?

I've spoke to a few local places and most don't want to know, the one place who said they would wanted £400-500 as a ballpark figure, I've nothing to compare the price to but it seems a bit expensive to me?

majesty78 · Dec 25, 2009

Devon HAD Race783 nozzles......

majesty78 · Dec 25, 2009

dieseljohnny said:
Does that turbo have the electronic actuator?

Yes, you have to convert it to vacuum operation, but thats no big deal.

Regards, Alex

devonmikeyboy · Dec 25, 2009

borachris said:
I've spoke to a few local places and most don't want to know, the one place who said they would wanted £400-500 as a ballpark figure, I've nothing to compare the price to but it seems a bit expensive to me?

£400-500 is about right for a 8 valve head depending on what is getting done.

devonutopia · Dec 25, 2009

majesty78 said:
Devon HAD Race783 nozzles......

And the same ones are going back in again with the rebuild. If I end up needing bigger ones AGAIN (I sure hope I don't with the water/methanol too) I will deal with that as and when.

majesty78 · Dec 25, 2009

I thought to read something like 1100 nozzles in the uk dyno day thread....

devonutopia · Dec 25, 2009

That was wrong.

I've never looked into any other nozzles but R783. Infact, before the RR thread I didn't even know of the Firad brand.

leon10tagg · Dec 26, 2009

devonutopia said:
"doing" my head. They still have it at the moment.

Got a 2260vk lined up for the rebuild.

Devon are the valve sizes being increased as well as the head being flowed?

My understanding is that you need to be careful when flowing the tdi head as the swirl effect which assists to optimise the fuel atomisation can be impacted or am I getting confused with petrol engines????????

devonutopia · Dec 26, 2009

exhaust valves are being increased in size, yes.

leon10tagg · Dec 26, 2009

devonutopia said:
exhaust valves are being increased in size, yes.

I assume then the inlet valves are adequate for 300hp??

What size of exhaust valve are being fitted? Also what impact does this have on the valve to piston clearance....especially important if you have a higher lift cam fitted.

Have the company doing the work any figures for flow rate before and after??

Also my understanding is that you need to be careful when flowing the tdi head as the swirl effect which assists to optimise the fuel atomisation can be impacted or am I getting confused with petrol engines?? Just interested as I was considering doing a head myself and getting the valve seats cut to suit....also just about to order a 260 duration cam with 9.5mm lift from Newman cams.

shadowmaker · Dec 26, 2009

leon10tagg said:
I assume then the inlet valves are adequate for 300hp??

What size of exhaust valve are being fitted? Also what impact does this have on the valve to piston clearance....especially important if you have a higher lift cam fitted.

Have the company doing the work any figures for flow rate before and after??

Also my understanding is that you need to be careful when flowing the tdi head as the swirl effect which assists to optimise the fuel atomisation can be impacted or am I getting confused with petrol engines?? Just interested as I was considering doing a head myself and getting the valve seats cut to suit....also just about to order a 260 duration cam with 9.5mm lift from Newman cams.

Everything depends... Original intake is good for 300bhp with >2,5bar boost, but with bigger valves you need only like 2,2bar. These are not exact numbers for boost (as things are much more complicated), but to demonstrate the effect of valve size vs. boost.

I was running +2mm/+2mm in/ex earlier, now going to +4mm/+4mm, which isn't possible without relocating valves. Solid lifters to take some weight off the heavier valves. Also going to play with cam specs.

Valve to piston clearance is not affected at all with bigger valves (valves are not angled), but bigger valve pockets are needed of course on top of the piston. On the other hand you need to be very carefull with cam specs...

leon10tagg · Dec 26, 2009

shadowmaker said:
Everything depends... Original intake is good for 300bhp with >2,5bar boost, but with bigger valves you need only like 2,2bar. These are not exact numbers for boost (as things are much more complicated), but to demonstrate the effect of valve size vs. boost.

I was running +2mm/+2mm in/ex earlier, now going to +4mm/+4mm, which isn't possible without relocating valves. Solid lifters to take some weight off the heavier valves. Also going to play with cam specs.

Valve to piston clearance is not affected at all with bigger valves (valves are not angled), but bigger valve pockets are needed of course on top of the piston. On the other hand you need to be very carefull with cam specs...

OK shadow your example is extremely helpful, however what about the impact of polishing the inlet and outlet ports.....what care needs to be taken when polishing the inlets??

devonutopia · Dec 26, 2009

Soild lifters is something I was concerned about with my new setup as I have just got new VW oem lifters for my rebuild. I'm not even aware of soild lifters for the PD engine to be honest?!

GoFaster · Dec 26, 2009

You *must* preserve at least some swirl generation in the intake ports. The combustion process in a direct-injection diesel engine will not mix air and fuel properly unless there is at least some swirl.

But, on the other hand, a diesel engine doesn't need to keep fuel droplets in suspension on the intake side like a gasoline engine does, so you could use a mirror polish if you'd like.

I'd be inclined to preserve the general shape of the intake port, just smooth out the surface and blend any rough edges or mismatches.

leon10tagg · Dec 26, 2009

GoFaster said:
You *must* preserve at least some swirl generation in the intake ports. The combustion process in a direct-injection diesel engine will not mix air and fuel properly unless there is at least some swirl.

But, on the other hand, a diesel engine doesn't need to keep fuel droplets in suspension on the intake side like a gasoline engine does, so you could use a mirror polish if you'd like.

I'd be inclined to preserve the general shape of the intake port, just smooth out the surface and blend any rough edges or mismatches.

OK.....smooth out the inlet ports it is then.....also clean up the inlet manifold and match to the head inlets.

devonutopia · Dec 27, 2009

Yes, my inlet manifold had already been matched to the head before. The current work is just "inside" somewhere.

Porting head,questions again.

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