What's best investment -Tune or Metal skid plate?

Geomorph · Aug 13, 2011

manual_tranny said:
I know of 5-6 ways to lift the vehicle.

1. DIY $40 hardware store stuff
2. Poly-something bushings (I can't find this site)
3. Strut spacer sets, stacked (only for front)
4. Airbags in springs (only for rear, Coalminer could probably tell you where to buy them)
5. Stiffer European springs from VR6 (WAY expensive)
6. Slightly stiffer springs from local auto stores (Moog brand, GREAT DEAL!)
7. Metalnerd lift kits 1" and 2"

Some of these can be combined, some can't. Stronger strut and shock (like Bilstien HD) can also help lift, but are not compatible with front lifts because the diameter of the strut is increased. If you're replacing struts with a lift kit, make sure you've got a compatible size.

Here's another one that I would consider: Evolution Import
These guys also make a great skid plate (which I have). I have the metalnerd 1" kit but probably would have gone for the evolution kit if it had been around when I lifted my car (since it is less $$$). It is nice to be lifted.

thebigarniedog · Aug 14, 2011

TDiSkater said:
I just read yesterday some kid trashed the family TDI by driving on a backroad and punching a hole in the oil pan. Apparently the engine stalled several times while he kept adding oil. I wonder if that dad wished he'd chosen a skid plate.

This is the scenario that, as a parent, I would be the most concerned about. I got a call about a year ago from the spouse about what the orange icon light on the mk5 meant (you know the one that signifies low tire air pressure) and she kept driving till it was all the way flat --- "oh, that is what the noise I heard was from". (insert facepalm jpg).

A skidplate is simply a requirement on these cars.

Jetta4Jeff · Aug 14, 2011

manual_tranny said:
I know of 5-6 ways to lift the vehicle.

1. DIY $40 hardware store stuff
2. Poly-something bushings (I can't find this site)
3. Strut spacer sets, stacked (only for front)
4. Airbags in springs (only for rear, Coalminer could probably tell you where to buy them)
5. Stiffer European springs from VR6 (WAY expensive)
6. Slightly stiffer springs from local auto stores (Moog brand, GREAT DEAL!)
7. Metalnerd lift kits 1" and 2"

Some of these can be combined, some can't. Stronger strut and shock (like Bilstien HD) can also help lift, but are not compatible with front lifts because the diameter of the strut is increased. If you're replacing struts with a lift kit, make sure you've got a compatible size.

I agree with your list above except in #5, I found the MOOG replacement cargo coil springs that ARE made to European 2003 VR6 spec's to be about $39. at Rockauto.com.... not what I'd call 'way expensive'... unless you were refering to buying VW springs, then you'd be paying much more...

manual_tranny · Aug 14, 2011

Jeff, I was distinguishing between the European MADE springs and the MOOG springs with my #5/#6. The European springs are way expensive. If you read #6 again you'll see I wrote: "Moog brand, GREAT DEAL!" I think we agree!

Jetta4Jeff · Aug 14, 2011

Free additional ground clearance???

We do!
I was concerned that they might think that buying an upgrade-to-a-VR6 spring to put into a TDI-equipped car might be too expensive but infact it is very inexpensive to buy because I got a 'two-for-one' when I bought these springs, coupled with the HD's, in that the 'lift' came for free! Free additional ground clearance without extra parts/cost/labour??
I'm sold!

PS. I also run with an Atlas underneath...

Herm TDI · Aug 14, 2011

Berniem

Forget the skid-plate.
Install new suspension, all mounts and bushings (Bilstein TC's) and a 2" lift-kit.

pleopard · Aug 14, 2011

Looking at the skid plate photo posted earlier, and keeping in mind what manual_tranny had to say, I'd avoid _that_ particular aftermarket skid plate... Perhaps the VW OEM skid plate ($$$) is engineered to maintain original deflections/approach angles...

Kingcodez · Aug 14, 2011

My car is lowered all the way on coil overs, my skid plate scrapes on speed bumps, but if it wasn't there I'd still have clearance, but I drive a Beetle and I have WAY more room than that picture with that guy's skid plate shows. I have a hard time believing that that car isn't lowered or the suspension isn't 150k old, but I've never been under a Jetta/Golf and I know the Beetle is taller in general. I drive in Florida so there's only drainage slots and speed bumps to worry about, it makes me be more careful and crawl instead of just going 5 mph over them which would slowly crap my suspension out.

The tune however, will basically double the performance (that your butt feels). Power corrupts. If I had this car when I was younger I'd have gotten 15 MPG. Would you trust your son with a 'Vette? I think kids should drive beaters or buy their own car.

Your kid is probably going to crash the car like everyone I know has ever done including me, so I'd just make the car safer if I were you. Like Herm said, do a suspension and tires. If you can do a 90 degree turn at 40 MPH (not literally but still) then you can hopefully avoid a crash or whatever. Let him buy his own tune or try the EVRY mod or something. If my suspension wasn't bouncy as hell I wouldn't have crashed my car.

ymz · Aug 14, 2011

Just for your info, the original VW steel skid plate has less ground clearance than the aftermarket products...

Yuri

MonsterTDI09 · Aug 14, 2011

The skid plate is the way to go.Just the other day I saw a ladder in the middle of I-95 that was fun.

Herm TDI · Aug 14, 2011

I have one TDI "skid-plate related" regret:
Not taking photos of an OEM skid plate that got ripped of by a Maine frost heave @ 35 MPH.

The end results:
a) Skid plate distroyed
b) Oil pan/ sump distroyed
c) inter-cooler (and the mounting) distroyed
d) turbo-charger distroyed
e) brake booster distroyed
The owner / driver was on Maine route 197 in Litchfield, Me.
Observed and complided to the posted speed limit and the approcah to the sign for the known frost heave.

As the car crested the frost heave the leading edge of the "skid-plate" made contact with the road surface. At this point the owners applied the brakes but the skid plate got pulled away and beneith the bottom of the engine. The skid-plate ripped the oil-pan off as well and pulled the inter-cooler away as the skid-plate rolled upwards and behind the engine. Keep in mind this is happening in seconds as the owner is bringing the car to a stand-still. When the skid-plate rolled up behind the engine it ruptured the brake booster and cracked the turbo housing.

I do wish that I took some photos.
I eneded up using a saws-all to cut away the skid-plate in fist sized chunks...one chunk at a time. The distroyed turbo and intercooler & brake booster was a needless loss. The expence of having the inter-cooler mounting repair (had to be cut out and a replacement welded in) was near $1,000.00 just to repair the inter-cooler mount.

eddie_1 · Aug 14, 2011

Wow, that's an amazing story. Folks were always saying how once you got the skid plate in place you were like a tank and could hit anything and the skid plate would come off better. I guess the moral of the story is if you put a skid plate on, you need to do a lift. By the way the wagons have a built in pan protection plate.

Herm TDI said:
I have one TDI "skid-plate related" regret:
Not taking photos of an OEM skid plate that got ripped of by a Maine frost heave @ 35 MPH.

The end results:
a) Skid plate distroyed
b) Oil pan/ sump distroyed
c) inter-cooler (and the mounting) distroyed
d) turbo-charger distroyed
e) brake booster distroyed
The owner / driver was on Maine route 197 in Litchfield, Me.
Observed and complided to the posted speed limit and the approcah to the sign for the known frost heave.

As the car crested the frost heave the leading edge of the "skid-plate" made contact with the road surface. At this point the owners applied the brakes but the skid plate got pulled away and beneith the bottom of the engine. The skid-plate ripped the oil-pan off as well and pulled the inter-cooler away as the skid-plate rolled upwards and behind the engine. Keep in mind this is happening in seconds as the owner is bringing the car to a stand-still. When the skid-plate rolled up behind the engine it ruptured the brake booster and cracked the turbo housing.

I do wish that I took some photos.
I eneded up using a saws-all to cut away the skid-plate in fist sized chunks...one chunk at a time. The distroyed turbo and intercooler & brake booster was a needless loss. The expence of having the inter-cooler mounting repair (had to be cut out and a replacement welded in) was near $1,000.00 just to repair the inter-cooler mount.

thebigarniedog · Aug 14, 2011

My wife was hurt a few years back from an airbag deployment. Another car ran a light and turned into her. The force of the airbag deployment bent her wedding ring set amongst other injuries. Had she been driving a car without airbags, she would have walked away unhurt. As a result of the accident I did not remove all the airbags from our vehicles. Why not? Out of a thousand possibilities this one was remote. Similar arguments can be made with seatbelts. Nothing is fool proof. If you think you can design anything that is fool proof, I'll let Bob have at it.

I don't know what is comming down the pike, but I do know that my skidplate is required equipment --- as are my airbags.

IndigoBlueWagon · Aug 14, 2011

eddie_1 said:
By the way the wagons have a built in pan protection plate.

What?

Geomorph · Aug 14, 2011

I noticed from the photo that the car in post 11 is seriously sagging (or lowered):

Here is a photo of my stock height new beetle with original springs (101,000 miles) that got new mounts and struts (bilstein TC) at 80,000 miles:

And here is a photo of my 35mm lifted Golf with original springs (93,000 miles), new strut mounts and struts (bilstein TC) at 85,000 miles, metalnerd 1" lift kit (25mm) plus 10 mm spacers:

Both cars have the Evolution Import Atlas skid plate. The keys are set up under the lowest part of the skid plate (towards the rear).

XXX_er · Aug 15, 2011

eddie_1 said:
Wow, that's an amazing story. Folks were always saying how once you got the skid plate in place you were like a tank and could hit anything and the skid plate would come off better. I guess the moral of the story is if you put a skid plate on, you need to do a lift.

I don't think its entirely necessary to do a lift if you have a plate cuz I don't think this particular situation is a regular happening, OK so in this particular instance the skid plate failed to protect the car AND caused more damage , even with a lift what if you hit a frost heave that was another 2" higher ?

think about how many oilpans have been saved by ski plates?

tditom · Aug 15, 2011

Super T said:
Lack of ground clearance? With stock ride hight?

I vote skid plate.

Your stock ride height is much lower than any of the stock A4 tdi's I've seen. If that is stock then either your plate is mis-installed or your shocks/springs are shot.

Herm TDI · Aug 15, 2011

XXX_er said:
I don't think its entirely necessary to do a lift if you have a plate cuz I don't think this particular situation is a regular happening, OK so in this particular instance the skid plate failed to protect the car AND caused more damage , even with a lift what if you hit a frost heave that was another 2" higher ?

think about how many oilpans have been saved by ski plates?

even with a lift what if you hit a frost heave that was another 2" higher ?

The suspension rebound or "deflection" on a stock A-4 is very short.
A road surface irregularity ie pot hole, frost heave or transition from a public road onto a parking lot has ruptured many A-4 oil pans.
As a small independent machanic I replace (on average) 4-6 oil pans in a year. The lift-kit retains the same amount of strut deflection (compression) but increases and maintaines the clearance between the road surface and the under-carrage.
In other words...If the stock A-4 had a ground clearance of 4.25" and the suspension deflection is 2.25" . the "running" ground cleanance has a range between a low of 2" and a maximum of 6.5".

If you install a 2" lift kit the deflection will stay the same.
6.25" (+-) 2.25" will give a min. of 4" and a max of 8.5"

Also consider the age and condition of the springs and the state of the struts installed.

The thing to remember is that the lift-kit raises the base-line ground clearance but the suspension deflection will remain nearly the same.

romad · Aug 15, 2011

Herm TDI said:
I have one TDI "skid-plate related" regret:
Not taking photos of an OEM skid plate that got ripped of by a Maine frost heave @ 35 MPH.

By "OEM" do you mean the stock plastic one? Or were metal ones an option or part of a higher "trim" level?

My new-to-me 05 Jetta Wagon has a plastic one with about 4.25" ground clearance. I guess my next addition should be a lift kit, followed by a metal skid plate, "just in case"?

romad · Aug 15, 2011

eddie_1 said:
By the way the wagons have a built in pan protection plate.

My 05 Jetta Wagon has a stock PLASTIC plate; it may be "built-in" but from what I've read here it is basically useless.

tico27464 · Aug 16, 2011

Just out of curiousity (and apologies for being a bit off-topic), for those who have lift kits, how has your handling been affected (what with the rise in center of gravity)?
~T

ymz · Aug 16, 2011

romad said:
By "OEM" do you mean the stock plastic one? Or were metal ones an option or part of a higher "trim" level?

VW does have a thick metal skid plate assembly available - possibly as a heavy duty option... You lose over an inch of ground clearance...

If you want to assemble one yourself, these are the part numbers:

1J0 018 930 B Skid Plate-TDI
1J0 018 885 A Bracket (need 2)
N 908 106 01 Riv-nut (7) (New part number: N 908 106 02)
N 100 704 03 Bolt (7)
1J0 018 977 Buffer (3)
1J0 018 967 A Bracket (3)
N 908 704 01 Bolt (2)

It's easier to get one of the popular aftermarket kits...

Yuri

Herm TDI · Aug 16, 2011

tico27464 said:
Just out of curiousity (and apologies for being a bit off-topic), for those who have lift kits, how has your handling been affected (what with the rise in center of gravity)?
~T

In every (Metalnerd) lift-kit that I've installed the handling has been flawless. Every owner has had nothing but high praise...even after years of driving with the lift-kit.

Herm TDI · Aug 16, 2011

romad said:
By "OEM" do you mean the stock plastic one? Or were metal ones an option or part of a higher "trim" level?

My new-to-me 05 Jetta Wagon has a plastic one with about 4.25" ground clearance. I guess my next addition should be a lift kit, followed by a metal skid plate, "just in case"?

I'm talking about the VW OEM metal skid-plate

manual_tranny · Aug 16, 2011

tico27464 said:
Just out of curiousity (and apologies for being a bit off-topic), for those who have lift kits, how has your handling been affected (what with the rise in center of gravity)?
~T

I autocross my 2" lifted Golf on economy tires.

With a mild tune and nozzles I can pretty much keep up with a stock 1.8T/2.8 GTI!

I've said it many times before- center of gravity is not important for a car of our weight with street tires. Reduce weight and throw on slicks, then we'll talk about CG being an issue.

romad · Aug 16, 2011

Herm TDI said:
In every (Metalnerd) lift-kit that I've installed the handling has been flawless. Every owner has had nothing but high praise...even after years of driving with the lift-kit.

Have you had any impact on ESC since they state that their kits should not be installed on ESC equipped vehicles? Or is that statement just CYA?

Conan · Aug 16, 2011

When I bought my Jetta, I had the dealer put it up on a lift for inspection. The plastic splash guard was completely missing, it had a brand new oil pan (for obvious reasons), and it has about a 1/8" deep groove in the bottom of the A/C compressor case. I ordered a Panzer Plate immediately. Here are my mods in order of priority:

1) Panzer Plate
2) Koni Orange shocks and struts and strut mounts (OEM had 95K+ on them). Kept stock springs
3) Bozio PP520 Nozzles
4) Kerma Tune
5) Ventectomy (free)
6) Upgrade to aftermarket 17" alloys with new tires (had 15" thrashed alloys and crap snow tires).
7) SBC Stage II Endurance SMF clutch kit (future).
8) VNT17 with corresponding tune (future). Nozzles if needed.
9) Better IC (future)

I think the skid plate question depends a lot on where the car is driven. I live and work in metro Denver, and I've grounded the skid plate many many times on ordinary driveways, cross-street valley gutters, and potholes. Skidded into an invisible snow-covered median/planter (~4" high) at about 5MPH with no damage. Wouldn't leave home without it.

XXX_er · Aug 16, 2011

Herm TDI said:
The suspension rebound or "deflection" on a stock A-4 is very short.
A road surface irregularity ie pot hole, frost heave or transition from a public road onto a parking lot has ruptured many A-4 oil pans.
As a small independent machanic I replace (on average) 4-6 oil pans in a year. .

Yeah my good sized VW dealer told me they average 9-10 a year so they keep them, in stock

romad · Aug 16, 2011

ymz said:
VW does have a thick metal skid plate assembly available - possibly as a heavy duty option... You lose over an inch of ground clearance...

If you want to assemble one yourself, these are the part numbers:

1J0 018 930 B Skid Plate-TDI
1J0 018 885 A Bracket (need 2)
N 908 106 01 Riv-nut (7) (New part number: N 908 106 02)
N 100 704 03 Bolt (7)
1J0 018 977 Buffer (3)
1J0 018 967 A Bracket (3)
N 908 704 01 Bolt (2)

It's easier to get one of the popular aftermarket kits...

Yuri

Hmm, I like the idea of steel over soft aluminum.

I found the kit on ecstuning site and read over the install instructions.

Pros: STEEL, black, VW name & quality, can dispense with the side splash pieces.

Cons: less clearance than 3rd party kit, no oil drain port.

A lift kit will solve the first; perhaps a port could be made.

davebugs · Aug 16, 2011

romad said:
Hmm, I like the idea of steel over soft aluminum.

I found the kit on ecstuning site and read over the install instructions.

Pros: STEEL, black, VW name & quality, can dispense with the side splash pieces.

Cons: less clearance than 3rd party kit, no oil drain port.

A lift kit will solve the first; perhaps a port could be made.

Pella!

My DG skid plate has some impressive "war wounds"

Get that engine protected. If it ain't running, performance doesn't matter!

What's best investment -Tune or Metal skid plate?

Veteran Member

Master of the Obvious

Veteran Member

Smyth Performance- Intern

Veteran Member

Vendor

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member

Vendor

Veteran Member

Master of the Obvious

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Vendor

Top Post Dawg

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Vendor

Vendor

Smyth Performance- Intern

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Vendor