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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old December 6th, 2018, 16:30   #31
jettawreck
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Originally Posted by CleverUserName View Post
I wouldnít use any CK-4 Diesel engine oil that doesnít meet Ford WSS-M2C171-F1 in an TDI equipped with a Flat tappet camshaft.
In other words, no. I wouldnít use the new T6 or Delvac ESP in an ALH or BEW.
T6 is cheap and readily available. Itís historically had high volatility so I wouldnít use it in anything that has emissions controls.
And yet many thousands of us are using either one and have no bad effects and many are still getting UOA that are not alarming, apparently. Has anyone heard of or seen a warning from BlackStone Labs (or any of the others) to discontinue use of the oil sample sent in?
I could care less what Ford specs/doesn't spec or what meets their spec. DelVac ESP meets/exceeds the CJ-4/CK-4 requirements of various specs of/for new CAT, Cummings, Detroit, Mack, MB, Volvo, etc. Yep, no Ford listed.
Not loosing any sleep over it either.
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2001 Jetta TDI GLS Silver-current driver (salvage)permanently vented-Panzer Plate-Sprint 520s-ScanGauge-CheckTemp III-ZeroStart heater-CAT 2 filter
2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
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196? International TD340 Dozer-w/Drott 4-in-1 bucket/back ripper attachment
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Old December 6th, 2018, 19:01   #32
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And yet many thousands of us are using either one and have no bad effects and many are still getting UOA that are not alarming, apparently. Has anyone heard of or seen a warning from BlackStone Labs (or any of the others) to discontinue use of the oil sample sent in?
I could care less what Ford specs/doesn't spec or what meets their spec. DelVac ESP meets/exceeds the CJ-4/CK-4 requirements of various specs of/for new CAT, Cummings, Detroit, Mack, MB, Volvo, etc. Yep, no Ford listed.
Not loosing any sleep over it either.
Itís Cummins not Cummings.

I havenít seen any UOAs from a new low P CK-4/SN rated oil being used on a 1.9 TDI. Couldnít find any on this site either. I guess youíve seen some, can you provide a source so I can view?

Ford made their own oil specification to address excessive valvetrain wear during internal testing of the new CK-4 oils.

Oil manufactures are under pressure from API and ACEA to reduce sulfated ash and certain metals in oils like phosphorous, to protect modern emissions systems. Most modern diesels use a roller cam valvetrain so high pressure anti wear additives arenít as critical as they are in older flat tappet designs like our 1.9s.

You asked me to define the difference between CJ-4 and CK-4 Delvac ESP. And I did, thouroughly. It is clear that the new CK-4/SN D1 is inferior to the old version. In every way... Iím glad I have 17 gallons of the old formula stashed away.

Iíll keep using CJ-4 and E7 E9 lubes in my diesels cause it works. You can drink the CK-4/SN and E6 koolaid if you choose. Iím just providing the information.
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Old December 6th, 2018, 19:10   #33
Genesis
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Phosphorus isn't the only way to get the wear protection.

As you noted the hissy fit is over cats, the Fed's insistence on long emissions warranties (read: if your car fails emissions THEY eat it) and the general problem that phosphorus poisons cats. So if you start consuming oil your cats stop working well enough and while you'll probably pass an OBD test (unless you get real unlucky and fail on the O2 sensor readings that throw a code) a sniffer up the pipe will fail you.

Therefore the pressure on the oil people.

This, however, doesn't mean the oils with less phosphorus are inferior. It just means that they have a different additive package in them.

I don't have a recent UOA on my ALH but it's run T6 since the factory oil was drained. That means it's got the new stuff in it now and has for quite some time. It's right near 250k miles and has the OE cam and lifters in it, and the last time the cover was off the top the cam was fine. If I remember the next time I change it I'll pull one -- I have a couple of prepaids from Blackstone so it's just a matter of remembering to do it.

Will I change it at next timing belt interval around 300k? Probably.

Why?

Because there's a bit of lifter noise on a cold start. But seriously -- 300k miles is poor service life on a factory cam and flat tappets? Really?
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Old December 8th, 2018, 18:59   #34
Windjammer
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OMG. 3 pages of oil discussion after asking just a simple, is this oil ok for my tdi? Does it ever stop?
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Old December 9th, 2018, 07:51   #35
jettawreck
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To answer a question poised as to whether M1 TDT 5w-40 was still available in qts. Yesterday I stopped by the local Fleet store and they had a shelf full of TDT in qts. Price has increased substantially for all the M1 choices. The non-sale price they posted ($7.79) was up about a $1/qt from last visit, and as before, gallons were priced slightly higher than four qts.
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2001 Jetta TDI GLS Silver-current driver (salvage)permanently vented-Panzer Plate-Sprint 520s-ScanGauge-CheckTemp III-ZeroStart heater-CAT 2 filter
2003 Jetta GLS Black w/leather (New Project Car) fixer-upper w/broken TB
2004 Cadillac SLS (wife's)
1999 GMC Suburban (It's MN-you need one)
197? Shibura 2cyl diesel 4WD tractor-loader/brushhog (very handy unit)
196? International TD340 Dozer-w/Drott 4-in-1 bucket/back ripper attachment
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Old December 9th, 2018, 11:32   #36
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OMG. 3 pages of oil discussion after asking just a simple, is this oil ok for my tdi? Does it ever stop?
You're new here, huh?
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Old December 9th, 2018, 13:01   #37
JettaTDIBlack
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Originally Posted by jettawreck View Post
To answer a question poised as to whether M1 TDT 5w-40 was still available in qts. Yesterday I stopped by the local Fleet store and they had a shelf full of TDT in qts. Price has increased substantially for all the M1 choices. The non-sale price they posted ($7.79) was up about a $1/qt from last visit, and as before, gallons were priced slightly higher than four qts.
Thank you.

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