ALH Cam wear :-(

STDOUBT · Jun 30, 2019

Well, looks like the time has come.
Took me reviewing my pics from yesterday to realize, YUP, new cam time.
We got this '01 (Wife's) August of last year, but I just now got around to inspecting the cam. Slowly getting over my hesitation on tackling certain tasks. Cam/lifter replacement I'll be outsourcing

This car lived it's life up until August 2018 on Castrol 5w-40 synthetic supplied by the PO's dealership.
I've been using Liqui-Moly fully synth.
Question: I'm wondering if I should have the valve seals/guides redone at the same time. How much would that add in labor roughly? And would the head have to come off for that? Anyway, enjoy the pic :-\ Be sure and check the hi-rez. Ugh.

And and a different lobe:

STDOUBT · Jun 30, 2019

Another Q:
Do we know if a Febi camshaft is good enough for another 200k?
Just realized VW cams are pretty freakin spendy.
Please feel free to recommend type of lifters too. My main goal is longevity.

KLXD · Jun 30, 2019

Have you done a timing belt? A cam is no more difficult, another ten nuts and a seal and a magnet to pull the lifters out.

IDParts has the kit for $180.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jun 30, 2019

VW cams in general seem to not last forever, but years ago people speculated that the '01 TDIs in particular were subject to cam wear. I don't know how many miles are on that cam but I replaced the cam in my '02 at 150K miles.

PD cams can be expensive, but ALH cams are not. https://www.idparts.com/camshaft-replacement-kit-alh-p-2420.html And most cams for VWs these days are made by AMC in Spain, whether they're packaged as Febi or not.

You could replace the valve stem seals with the head on the car, but the guides will require pulling the head and having a machine shop do it. Unless you see significant oil consumption or a big cloud of blue smoke on a cold start, i'd skip it.

Nero Morg · Jun 30, 2019

I've always used IDparts cams and followers kit. Replaced four so far due to similar wear as yours. Some here will say just keep running it, but with that pitting I'd replace it. How do the followers look? If you grab a pick or pocket screwdriver, gently drag it across the top and you'll be able to feel any grooves/scratches in it.

Genesis · Jun 30, 2019

That looks pretty bad; I'd change it.

The last time I had the valve cover off mine (around ~250kish miles) the chamfer was still good and there was no pitting visible on the lobes. The visible part of the lifters looked good as well. Assuming it makes another interval without anything horrid happening to the car I'll probably change both it and the lifters on the next interval, simply because. There is a bit of cold-start lifter noise first start in the AM but it clears in a couple of seconds.

Mine has had Rotella T6 in it since the factory fill was drained and I've done every oil change since..... YMMV but with that performance over that length of time I'm not going to run anything else.

STDOUBT · Jun 30, 2019

I have yet to do a TB. I wish I had thought to have this done when
Fix Um Haus did the TB last year :sigh:

234k miles on her '01. Re: valve seals/guides, we do see a small to moderate puff of blue nearly every cold start. But I swear it's smaller than usual since the euro pipe...probably placebo. My '03 (123k mi) does it too, but I suspect air infiltration into the fuel system (IP probably).

Nero Morg said:
I've always used IDparts cams and followers kit. Replaced four so far due to similar wear as yours. Some here will say just keep running it, but with that pitting I'd replace it. How do the followers look? If you grab a pick or pocket screwdriver, gently drag it across the top and you'll be able to feel any grooves/scratches in it.

Unfortunately, I went in unprepared to evaluate the lifters, and was mainly just there to fix the over-torqued cover nuts, and rejuvenate the gasket, dab on some permatex.

Definitely going to change them out. My plan is after the break-in oil is done, start using Mobil1 TDT. I've read numerous good reviews hereabouts.

Thank you all for the great information!

[486] · Jun 30, 2019

mine looked worse than that when I got it, PO used conventional oil for 100k miles or so.

I use synthetic 0w40 and it has not gotten any worse in the 50k miles I've put on it
I spin it to 6k rpm, too.

check on it next time you do the timing belt, I'd bet on it looking exactly the same

STDOUBT · Jun 30, 2019

[486] said:
mine looked worse than that when I got it, PO used conventional oil for 100k miles or so.

I use synthetic 0w40 and it has not gotten any worse in the 50k miles I've put on it
I spin it to 6k rpm, too.

check on it next time you do the timing belt, I'd bet on it looking exactly the same

That is interesting. I'll let her keep driving it I guess. She gets nowhere near 6k heh! Those bevels though...yeah, I default to paranoid when it comes to these cars.
I think I'll relax, and swap it out when it's convenient (within the next few weeks) just so I can stop thinking about it!!!

atmarine · Jul 1, 2019

Cam replacement

I just came across the same thing this weekend on mine. I’ve got a 99.5 with 220K. I was doing a high mileage timing belt kit, and had a cam and lifters on hand from Frank06. One of the old lifters poked through the top, and wiped out the cam lobe. Other than a visual, there was only a slight ticking sound that was evident. Pulling the cam, one of the mounting blocks was ,ore worn than the rest so top.

After a phone call to Frank, he suggested pulling the head. I kicked it around for a couple hours, then decided to pull the trigger since I was there and it was already mostly apart. Glad I did, as the valve Thad had a bad lifter had a chip out of it and looked in rough shape.

I’d highly recommend working through Frank on this. He is super helpful and knowledgeable about these!

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 1, 2019

My local guru has a routine of replacing cam and lifters at second timing belt change, so at 150-200K depending on the car's initial timing belt interval. That reduces risk of lifter breakage and valve damage. the cam and lifters don't cost a lot, so it makes sense to me. Also, always replace cam and lifters together.

TDI smile · Jul 1, 2019

My engine was never touched. Everything is ORIGINAL on the engine.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 1, 2019

TDI smile said:
My engine was never touched. Everything is ORIGINAL on the engine.

You may be on borrowed time.

03TDICommuter · Jul 1, 2019

You guys have me worried. Original cam and lifters here (pretty sure anyways). Oil analysis looked okay but I should go ahead and take a look. I do worry about that valve cover gasket. Why does VW have to make simple things complicated?

dieselboy55 · Jul 1, 2019

Replace the cam and lifters. It's an easy job.

This same pitting happened to my 2002 with previous owner using Castrol 5w-40 as well

STDOUBT · Jul 1, 2019

Just now ordered a cam and lifter set, new cam sprocket bolt and a seal.
Also, a new Litens TB tensioner. Have a tub of Joe Gibbs assembly grease coming in too! Next stop Wally-World for some Mobil1 TDT. Woot!

jokila · Jul 2, 2019

Once you get the camshaft sprocket removed, the trick to doing it is to back off the crank 90 degrees counter clockwise to install the new cam.

Obviously, you would make the cam aligned to its relative point at TDC with the index tool as you install it, then rotate the crank back to TDC to go on with the tensioning of the belt. If you have trouble rotating the cam, you can use vicegrips on it between the lobes.

KLXD · Jul 2, 2019

Good point. The reasoning is that if the lifters are full of oil you won't have one of the closed valves hitting a piston before the lifter can collapse as you tighten the caps.

STDOUBT · Jul 14, 2019

What I did to my MKIV today (see thread).
Boom. This is a lifter that needed changing out. They were all about like this. Car is nice and smooth now. Thank you! to Nero Morg for the walk-through!

03TDICommuter · Jul 14, 2019

STDOUBT said:
Car is nice and smooth now. Thank you! to Nero

What symptoms were you having performance wise before the cam and lifter replacement?

STDOUBT · Jul 14, 2019

03TDICommuter said:
What symptoms were you having performance wise before the cam and lifter replacement?

Only symptoms really were kinda 'slappy' sounding and a lot louder than my '03. I wanted to know why, and fix it with the rationale that less noisy means less active wearing(?)
Performance wise maybe just smoother acceleration less engine vibration maybe. Will be even better with a new dogbone.

Regarding the VC gasket, I fixed the over-torqued bolts,
and soaked my gasket on a low pan of mild degreaser, and
it seemed to liven up a lot. I removed the black baffle to get it to sit flat. I think it was worth it, also degreased the gasket seat of course. Sorry if I'm repeating myself!

[486] · Jul 15, 2019

STDOUBT said:
What I did to my MKIV today (see thread).
Boom. This is a lifter that needed changing out. They were all about like this. Car is nice and smooth now. Thank you! to Nero Morg for the walk-through!
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=131959&title=lifter-wear-alh-235k-miles&cat=500

valve/piston contact has occurred, that's what makes that pattern in the lifter
either a botched Tbelt job, or someone running too thick of oil, too cold, too fast and pumping up the lifters

mine has the spalling on the tip of the lobes, but no marks on the lifters

Dhawk12 · Jul 15, 2019

[486] said:
valve/piston contact has occurred, that's what makes that pattern in the lifter
either a botched Tbelt job, or someone running too thick of oil, too cold, too fast and pumping up the lifters

mine has the spalling on the tip of the lobes, but no marks on the lifters

I thought that those "bowtie" marks were the result of the lifter no longer properly rotating in its bore causing excessive wear? Valve/piston contact wouldn't leave a pattern like that unless it happened more than once in which case the lifter would likely also have "spiderweb" cracking no?

99_TDI · Jul 15, 2019

I agree, something went wrong to make that happen. My 99 ALH is on factory cam and lifters at 236k miles and everything looked brand new when I did the timing belt about 10k ago

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

csstevej · Jul 15, 2019

[486] said:
valve/piston contact has occurred, that's what makes that pattern in the lifter
either a botched Tbelt job, or someone running too thick of oil, too cold, too fast and pumping up the lifters

This is wrong^

I thought that those "bowtie" marks were the result of the lifter no longer properly rotating in its bore causing excessive wear? Valve/piston contact wouldn't leave a pattern like that unless it happened more than once in which case the lifter would likely also have "spiderweb" cracking no?
( AS QOUTED BY DHAWK12 )

This is correct ^

[486] · Jul 15, 2019

color me surprised

the spiderwebbed lifters are def from hard valve/piston contact like you'd see from getting out of time, but
always assumed the little dents were from lighter contact just at peak lift from the lifters getting pumped up.
Only noticed one or two of them on the exhaust side the couple times I'd seen them, and those are the ones
that pump up and hang open.

GEFP · Jul 18, 2019

I'm wondering if this isn't the reason my 2001 has noisy lifters. Looks like I need to check the cam soon!

Nero Morg · Jul 18, 2019

Before we changed the cam/lifters, they were making a significant amount of noise, even at operating temperature. After the install, once the initial pump up was done, they were silent again. Good luck.

Fahrvegnugen · Jul 24, 2019

How are these looking? I was inspired by this thread so I took these photos today. The lobes seem very smooth. This is an 01 golf with 162k

Nero Morg · Jul 24, 2019

Looks fine to me. You'll have to inspect the followers as well, but at that mileage you're probably OK.

ALH Cam wear :-(

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