Where to stop?

Fix_Until_Broke said:

I've also got a bypass check for the HE221 compressor to bypass the 1444 compressor and ultimately run the HE221 as a single once it's spooled up. I'm not putting that in right now, but it was suggested to me that this might be necessary depending on the turbine maps (which I still can't figure out how to read!)

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That sounds good ! I'm thinking it will be necessary.

andy2 said:

The iron head is still on the drag car and it seals up 100% even with a warped/cracked block deck.

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What, haven't ramped up for series production yet?
For a while I was looking for something in an iron head to adapt, but bore spacing data is hard to come by.

Fix_Until_Broke said:

I've also got a bypass check for the HE221 compressor to bypass the 1444 compressor and ultimately run the HE221 as a single once it's spooled up. I'm not putting that in right now, but it was suggested to me that this might be necessary depending on the turbine maps (which I still can't figure out how to read!)

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in my compounds thread, around post 200 or so Ruben's been working with sequential compounds with a 1444v and a relatively big EFR
Was monitoring the shaft speed sensor and the whole bit. I do not think he was/is running a compressor bypass, just opening the interstage wastegate and letting the HP 1444 free spin.
Interested to see what he has to say if/when he chimes in.

Letting the 1444 free spin is fine as long as you don't run into choke conditions I'd guess.

GT2056 vs HE221 is I have the right maps for anyone who hasn't looked them up:

Fix_Until_Broke said:

Letting the 1444 free spin is fine as long as you don't run into choke conditions I'd guess.

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Just subscribing to this thread for reading pleasure.

Not knowing much about your guys's compounds experimentation, I'm wondering have any tried to mimic the 335D's turbo plumbing?

Fix_Until_Broke said:

Hmm - hopefully the rod bearings I have coming from Darkside have the lock tab.


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I confirmed with Darkside that I received what I ordered which was sputter rod bearings for an ALH, however they don't have the locking tabs on them .

Can I use them anyway as long as I get them centered in the journal or do I need to get ones with locking tabs.

Bummer - this is the only thing holding me up from closing the engine up.

On other progress - the twins are installed and it looks pretty good if I do say so myself . Everything is just tacked together until I put it in the car so if I do have to move something it won't be too big of a deal. Once everything fits, I'll pull the tubing out and weld it all up.

Few misc items to figure out yet - Need an oil port adapter for the HE221, Need to fab up a steel drain line for the HE221 as well and figure out where to drain it. Install MAP sensor bung somewhere, some pressure taps for interstage boost/EMP gauges, etc.

I'm not sure what to say.I'll have to assume that tab is simply used for orientation and is not crucial.Perhaps the lock tab is not needed or important ?

I guess I'd prefer the locking tab bearings however they are likely not necessary.

The tabs are for install alignment side to side in rod bore. If you carefully install bearing shells centered in rod, they should work fine.
The bearing is actually held in place by a slight interference/crush fit in bore.

algirdas said:

The tabs are for install alignment side to side in rod bore. If you carefully install bearing shells centered in rod, they should work fine.
The bearing is actually held in place by a slight interference/crush fit in bore.

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this

if they were doing anything after assembly, the bearing shells would be loose in the rod, and spun bearings would happen regardless of if the tabs are there or not

Fix_Until_Broke said:

I confirmed with Darkside that I received what I ordered which was sputter rod bearings for an ALH, however they don't have the locking tabs on them .
Can I use them anyway as long as I get them centered in the journal or do I need to get ones with locking tabs.
Bummer - this is the only thing holding me up from closing the engine up.
On other progress - the twins are installed and it looks pretty good if I do say so myself . Everything is just tacked together until I put it in the car so if I do have to move something it won't be too big of a deal. Once everything fits, I'll pull the tubing out and weld it all up.
Few misc items to figure out yet - Need an oil port adapter for the HE221, Need to fab up a steel drain line for the HE221 as well and figure out where to drain it. Install MAP sensor bung somewhere, some pressure taps for interstage boost/EMP gauges, etc.

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Where are the pictures?

Drain into the pan, weld in an AN bung relatively high in the pan. I used a 1.8T pan for my Passat and used the existing hole which is actually pretty low and it has been fine.

I had to make a long banjo bolt for my setup to run dual oil feed lines off the one tap, I couldn't find a proper banjo bolt at the time.

I used a couple of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/12mm-M12-4A...ash=item463f827363:g:JwEAAOxyrrpTi-5b&vxp=mtr
you can bend them slightly, When I bought mine, they had 45 degree ones too, they also have straights.

I was able to drill and tap a 1/8" NPT into the end of the stock oil feed banjo bolt, and then used that for the second turbo's feed.

What I'm thinking of doing is running a -6 line from the oil filter up to the HE221W, putting a tee there and then running a -4 line down to the GTC1444VZ. I've got a somewhat complicated plan for the oil drains as well which allows me to keep my bypass filter but still access the oil pan with weld in bungs.

I've heard from enough people that I can use the rod bearings without the tabs and I have a plan on how to do it so everything stays centered/aligned. Hopefully Darkside will change their website to note that these bearings don't have the tabs on them after I send them a note about this minor issue.

I got a bunch of other things tidied up as well, made a flange for the HE221W exhaust, fabricated a bracket for the wastegate actuator for this turbo as well since the compressor housing was clocked, got the oil pan clearanced for the main studs and it fits well.

Pictures coming shortly now that I'm in the land of internet access

Here's what I started with for an idea...


Here's what I ended up with...




Here it all is together...missing a 1-1/2 x 2 reducing coupling for the cold side which should be here tomorrow.

nice job im very intersting in the emp of the small turbo

if it was my project I would change the T pipe and make it a Y shape.
of course a bit harder to make in the same space.
for the rest....nice that your building quit fast.

In hindsight, I agree that it would flow better if I would have taken 2) long radius 90's, cut them on the center line and made my own tee. I've got the parts to do it and if I end up with another delay in the project, I might do that as it wouldn't be that hard to do. Thanks for the suggestion!

I think I've got almost everything ordered or otherwise figured out for putting the rest of this disaster back together...

Oil feed to the turbos will be a -6 AN line from the oil filter housing to the HE221 and then a -6 tee with a -6 to -4 reducer and a -4 AN line to the GTC1444. That should be pretty clean looking and still flow enough oil to both turbos.

HE221 Oil drain will be a custom bent -8 stainless tube which will end up somewhere in the right back of the oil pan where it will adapt to a hose and then go into a weld bung in the top of the oil pan.

3" diameter, 3" CLR 90's were ordered today for the downpipe along with a new 3" stainless bellows

Clutch showed up today finally! Flywheel is back from the machine shop as well.

An extra Hewitt 30 psi dual boost gauge is at the shop, will not run an EGT on the HE221 to start, but will keep the EGT on the 1444 which is the most important one for now.

Need to find my other 42DD MAP sensor adapter ring for the 6 Bar MAP to fit in the 42DD bung. Again short term solution until I get some sort of FMIC or SMIC installed with aluminum tubing.

I'll try and get more pictures posted this week - I have not been taking as many as I would like, but will post up all that I have to share with everyone.

I'm probably looking at two more full weekends to get this back on the road - One more to finish up all the fab work and another to install it all in the car. Need to get it done before Christmas - this clutch swap it taking a long time

The bolt holes for holding the MAP down are slightly different, you might be able to do it if the screw is small enough.

Engine & Transmission are in the car - just hanging by the 4 mount bolts at the moment, but it's all in there and fits with relatively plenty of room to spare.

I dropped the car over the engine/trans combo which was on a pallet held up by a forklift. Would have been very easy with a single turbo, but the 2nd turbo made it a really tight fit - took me 1.5 hours to get the car dropped down/engine lifted up so I could put the 4 bolts in.

Need to fabricate an oil drain line for the HE221W yet and also get the air intake routed to the air filter box. Need to make an MAP adapter harness. Need to make a downpipe and pull all the stainless out and weld it up yet. The rest is just bolting things together which goes relatively quick.

I've got a bunch of pictures, but am too tired to get them posted tonight, I need to be up early tomorrow and was up till 1:30 AM last night. That kind of stuff was easier when I was younger

is there enough room left for a decent downpipe ?
or are you going through the hood.

Yes, will be 3" and shaped like a question mark. It won't be a walk in the park, but not horrible either.

oh come on, you can fit 4" in there

Fix_Until_Broke said:

For reasons that I will explain in more detail later..........

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Well, it's later and I've got all the pictures resized so I figured I'd update this thread.

The thing that instigated all this was a clutch issue which is still lingering - details on that are in this thread starting on post 27

I'll step back and try to go through this in a way that somewhat makes sense.

From above - the engine is out and on the stand due to the aforementioned clutch issue. This is what it looked like as it came out with the GTC1444VZ, SDI intake and external wastegate on the EGR port.



I dropped the engine out the bottom while the car was on the hoist. Never done it this way before and it worked out relatively well. Main thing was it saves some time assembling/disassembling the front clip and having to discharge/recharge the A/C system. Only minor issue was making sure I had a place for the A/C compressor to get tied up and that I forgot to drain the power steering reservoir so ended up with an oily mess on the floor.



Once the engine was on the stand, I rolled it over, pulled the oil pan and checked the rod and main bearings. As noted in earlier posts, the mains were fine, but the rods were "tired" again





While I waited for sputter coated rod bearings to arrive from Darkside, I installed the girdle that I've had for a couple years. The girdle went in relatively easy, but there were a couple small hiccups.

1) You need a 12mm 12pt deep socket for the ARP main studs. The Snap-On socket that I had has too small of a hole on the inside so I had to bore it out on the lathe with a carbide tool so it wold go over the threads of the stud.

2) A couple of the bolt holes were just ~0.010" off so 2 of the oil pan bolts wouldn't go in without dragging on the sides of the girdle. Not a big deal, just drill them out.

3) You have to add material to the back side of the oil pan (flywheel side) at the pan rail so you can machine out the inside so it clears the two rear most ARP main studs/nuts. I elected to TIG weld on the outside and then machine out the inside. The pan didn't weld too bad for being cast aluminum. I've heard of some epoxying or JB Weld after grinding away enough to clear on the inside. Sorry, apparently no pictures of the pan welding.

4) I had to grind my main cap spacers to specific heights so I could match the taper that's in my block. There was ~0.008" difference from front to rear. Not a girdle issue, but a block issue.

5) You end up losing the plastic windage pan with the girdle. I didn't know this ahead of time and ended up breaking mine trying to make it fit.

Hopefully with this, the sputter coated bearings and the smaller oil pump gear, the rod bearings live a bit longer and I don't window a block.





Mounting up the 2nd turbo seemed easiest outside of the car, however you lose the reference of where the rest of the car is when you do this (firewall, brake booster, transmission, etc). Fortunately I had access to another stock MKIV TDI so I pulled that into the shop and made a few reference measurements to the valve cover, firewall, shift linkage, brake booster etc and was able to avoid a few potential mishaps. It turned out that I wasn't going to be able to keep my SDI intake and this was the best location for the 2nd turbo. I just strapped it on for mock up. The intake clears the wastegate and brake booster, it clears the firewall, the exhaust will make it all the places it needs to go. Ok - next steps are to take this concept and make it a reality - in the next post.

Now that I have a general location for the turbo, how am I going to mount it there?

I made this "bucket" to mount the exhaust flange to as posted earlier in this thread. I started with some box tube and a plate of ~3/8" thick steel. A little cut, little hammering, little welding and I had the bottom half shaped like I wanted.



I took the 3/8 plate and clamped it to the table and used a mag base drill to drill out the 4 corners and then just cut out the middle part. Then I drilled and tapped holes for mounting the turbo.





Now that I have something to mount the turbo to, I need some way to fix it in a given location. The exhaust plumbing is relatively rigid so it will support some but I didn't want it to be the only thing holding the turbo in place. On the back of the "bucket" I welded a plate that is held by 2 of the intake manifold bolts. You can see this a little in the below picture. I tacked it on the bottom so I could still rotate the turbo if I needed to. Once everything was in place, I tacked the top side as well so it was relatively rigid before welding it solid.



The above picture also shows the basic exhaust layout between turbos. The below picture shows it all tacked together.



I had to get a little creative on the double 90 to get into the "bucket" so it didn't hit the cast exhaust manifold.







And here is why I did that so I could get the exhaust up into the "bucket"





More to come - stay tuned!

Am I the only one who sees blank space where the pictures should be in the last the last two updates?

I think there's an issue with the picture server - no thumbnails are available there and half of the above pictures just show up as little icons (the one's I recently uploaded).

How about now for the pictures?

The next step was to get everything ready to put in the car so I could see if everything fits. I looked at several options for the oil drain for the 2nd turbo and the best option was to shorten my bypass filter from a Ea-BP110 down to a 100 which is 3" shorter which allowed me room to weld a bung in the oil pan.







All TIG welded from the inside



Still have room to get the two pan bolts out, but it's close



Sputter coated rod bearings went in without any notches - Lined them up with the notches in the rods and it seems to have worked well so far!



After that, it's putting it in the car and seeing what does/does not fit before everything is welded up. Here it is ready to sit on the pallet, transmission and everything installed.









It took well over an hour go from the above picture to screwing in the 4 bolts that hold the engine/transmission in the car. The 2nd turbo really made things tight at the rear crossmember as well as the aforementioned A/C compressor needs to be pulled under the front bumper since it can't fit between the engine and radiator. A 2nd person would have been helpful as well since you need to rock the assembly forward/back as well as slide it left/right as they come together, but it does go without damaging anything.

Once installed, there's actually quite a bit of room around everything and nothing needed to be relocated (fortunately!)





After that, everything came apart to get welded out.

Here's the two main assemblies - Exhaust & wastegate connection and the compressor connection.



I'm not a great TIG welder, but good enough to be functional







Filling in the gap between the pipe and "bucket" - Tedious work







All welded out (or so I thought!)

More pictures of the weld out...

Also a good view of the mounting plate to the intake manifold





V band ring welded to the downpipe



Exhaust connection to the HE221 was a bit more complicated. I could have made it 2.5", but already had all the stuff for 3" so had to make that work.

You can see the outline of the turbo scribed into the plate and the 3 mounting holes that the downpipe has to fit between.



This required a little "dimpling" to make everything fit and still get wrenches on the bolts.





Of course I had some help figuring all this out







He loves being in the shop which I think is great

Continuing with the downpipe - apparently I don't have any pictures of the plate finished up on the turbo.

The downpipe is two parts because of all the bends, it won't fit in as one piece.

Here's the 2nd piece that makes the bend down and then back. It's a slip fit over the 1st piece off the turbo (no room for a v-band clamp).



Here's the whole assembly







Once I got everything welded out and put it back in the car, we had a little issue...Must have had some distortion due to the weld out. I had 3-4 strong tacks on every joint and didn't weld any joint completely at one time, but it still warped.



I tried heating it up with a torch and prying it back, which helped a little, but still not good enough. I considered putting some sort of flexibility in somewhere, but there was just not room.



So, I cut the flange off with a sawzall, put the v-band back on the turbo to center and re-locate everything, then while on my back, under the car at a full arms length away, TIG welded the joint back together (the back half of it anyway).

Back side



Front side



There's some misalignment there for sure but it cleaned up with some work using a die grinder and a long carbide burr.