New Passat TDI confirmed for U.S.

oxford_guy

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Wow, having just read through several pages of this thread, I'm honestly shocked to see how many people feel almost entitled to certain options and features. I got news for you, not including features or including extra features that may or may not have been disclosed up-front is common to ALL car manufacturers. And, until you've signed a bill of sale, VW can add or subtract from the content all it wants. You can be pissed, but VW is under no obligation at all to include anything specific. A deposit means nothing, only that you intend to buy the vehicle. If you want to be an early adopter, you run the risk of missing or added content from ANY car manufacturer. If you're a person that's particularly concerned about the content of his or her car, then I highly suggest you wait until you see the car in-person before you make that final decision to buy.

Ugh, this thread makes my head hurt like the MkIV forums on VWvortex!
None of this is new and therefore none of it qualifies as a rebuttal to what I posted. Defend poor business practices if you like, but don't expect me to agree that bad is good. As I said before, it's common for people to be rewarded with extra content, not penalties, for pre-ordering products.
The benefit to pre-ordering is getting the car sooner. A fleeting benefit, at most.
That is too weak to justify something like this, as pre-ordering is more beneficial to businesses than it is to customers on this basis. As I said, it's one thing to make a big change like this after six or or nine months and quite another to make people's cars inferior before they've even picked them up. Penalizing people for pre-ordering simply isn't good business, and no one needs a "soapbox" to know that. Let's see... one poster has shouted with caps lock on and then resorted to name-calling and innuendo. Who is the one who is out of line here, eh?

Doing something like this leaves buyers with the impression that the car company is tricky and wants to screw over early adopters. That's not a good impression to leave. Word of mouth does matter a lot.
 
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kjclow

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It all comes down to the original design of the car and the possibility that the parts may not have been available for the first wave of cars. Remember what happened in Japan earlier this year. That also effected the backup cameras. Do you want to ***** about the customers that will get those once all the parts become available? You have the option of not taking the car when it arrives and waiting for another. Of course that might take several months to a year!
 

Derrel H Green

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Well Said

oxford_guy: And, as I've stated time and time again, people paid for a car with no center vents. That's what they're getting.
VW's decided to add center vents. They have no moral or legal obligation to add those on cars that weren't ordered with them.
If you're so offended by VW's business practices, why do you own a new VW?
(Of course, I'm not convinced that you actually do own one, and you're not just a troll)
:)

My exact thoughts my friend! Rather well said!

Who cares if the first early or even later Passats have under seat vents IF they are not
going to buy one, and we all know that a certain individual from Ohio (?) is not in any
position to do so, having 'claimed' to recently purchased a TDI Golf!

This same person recently called me a troll! Check out all my posts and when I first joined this forum.

:D

D
 
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bhtooefr

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That is too weak to justify something like this, as pre-ordering is more beneficial to businesses than it is to customers on this basis. As I said, it's one thing to make a big change like this after six or or nine months and quite another to make people's cars inferior before they've even picked them up. Penalizing people for pre-ordering simply isn't good business, and no one needs a "soapbox" to know that. Let's see... one poster has shouted with caps lock on and then resorted to name-calling and innuendo. Who is the one who is out of line here, eh?

Doing something like this leaves buyers with the impression that the car company is tricky and wants to screw over early adopters. That's not a good impression to leave. Word of mouth does matter a lot.
It's not penalizing people for pre-ordering.

It's deciding that more people would order the car if that feature was added, and adding the feature in partway through the model year, rather than waiting a whole model year to make the change, when they can just do it now. Would you rather VW wait to add the feature? It's not cost effective to go back and replace center consoles on every car sold to date, so the only way for VW to not lose money AND make you happy is to, as you would say, screw over everyone buying the October through June batches, and not give them the feature at all.

VW is not a charity, they're a for-profit business. If you disagree with their business practices, don't buy from them. However, because every for-profit car company does stuff like that, you'll want to move to a country where car companies are not a for-profit business, are government owned, and everyone is supposed to be equal with their cars. I'd suggest North Korea or Iran. (Even China, where many companies are government owned, they're very much for-profit.)
 
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oxford_guy

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:)
My exact thoughts my friend! Rather well said!
Who cares if the first early or even later Passats have under seat vents IF they are not
going to buy one, and we all know that a certain individual from Ohio (?) is not in any
position to do so, having 'claimed' to recently purchased a TDI Golf!
This same person recently called me a troll! Check out all my posts and when I first joined this forum.
:D
D
:D
D
Look up the definition of hypocrisy.
This same person recently called me a troll!
I asked you to stop trolling, yet you continue to do so.
Who cares if the first early or even later Passats have under seat vents IF they are not
going to buy one
Exactly. Who cares about anything that doesn't directly affect them? Some old lady needs help walking across the street? Who cares! Some kid has terminal cancer and is holding a collection? Who cares! Some people died in New York city after a plane went into a building? Who cares!
 

oxford_guy

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It's not penalizing people for pre-ordering.
Of course it is. The cars haven't even been given to buyers yet. The sales transactions aren't even finalized. There is still plenty of waiting to do -- for the very first wave. And yet, the cars are already decontented -- for the same money, in comparison with cars that will come out a few weeks later. That is absolutely penalizing those who pre-ordered.
It's deciding that more people would order the car if that feature was added, and adding the feature in partway through the model year, rather than waiting a whole model year to make the change, when they can just do it now. Would you rather VW wait to add the feature? It's not cost effective to go back and replace center consoles on every car sold to date, so the only way for VW to not lose money AND make you happy is to, as you would say, screw over everyone buying the October through June batches, and not give them the feature at all.
I already offered two suggestions. The cars are still at the factory. There is nothing stopping VW from adding the feature to all of them. Another potential option is to make it possible for dealers to add them at no cost to buyers.
VW is not a charity, they're a for-profit business.
Yes, and as I said before, the way good business is done is for people to be rewarded, not penalized, for pre-ordering. Pre-ordering and general early adoption benefits the business more than the customer and therefore businesses have an incentive to make it worthwhile to customers to not wait around. Businesses typically offer extra content, not reduced content, for those who pre-order products.

One poster here advised waiting two years to buy one of these. Two years! Yet, you don't see why VW has an incentive to make it more attractive to become an early adopter? Yet, if we look at what's being offered -- rather than extra content or some other incentive, people are merely getting the drawbacks of reduced content, a higher price tag, and more potential vehicle flaws. Getting the car less than one month sooner certainly does not balance that out!

Businesses that provide quality goods and services generally do better than those that don't. It's not a matter of being charitable. It's a matter of being a good competitor. Shafting early adopters is not good business.
If you disagree with their business practices, don't buy from them.
This is the "might makes right" fallacy.
However, because every for-profit car company does stuff like that, you'll want to move to a country where car companies are not a for-profit business, are government owned, and everyone is supposed to be equal with their cars. I'd suggest North Korea or Iran.
"Because every American automaker makes cars like the Pinto and the Vega, there's no reason to ask for more. Pay no attention to the Japanese makers an ocean away... If you don't like exploding break-down-quickly rust buckets, then move to Iran or North Korea!" :roll eyes:

Your point of view is akin to what got the American automakers into big trouble. Might makes right often results in might losing to right. Volkswagen has publicly said it wants to improve reliability and customer experience. Selling those who pre-ordered inferior cars certainly conflicts with those goals.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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I felt like I helped take this thread off track last week by contributing to the AWD discussion. Now it's time for you guys to drop the bloody vent thing and let the thread get back on track.

To that end, I'd love to hear more about when folks have been told production Passats are arriving at dealers. It seems my local dealer had a pessimistic projection.
 

oxford_guy

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It's not off track, but I do think the subject has been pretty thoroughly covered now. If someone has more news about what VW is actually planning to do, though, that would be helpful. If there is a delay, it may not be something to be pessimistic about. It could be that VW is doing the right thing and putting the vents into all the cars in order to make a proper introduction.

Everyone, from salesmen, to VW, to journalists -- everyone says this Passat is a big expensive (factory cost) proposition and VW needs it to do well to meet its goal of becoming a major force in the US. Well, serving up early buyers a plate of decontent is likely to result in discontent.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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I wasn't talking about vents: my dealer said he wouldn't see production Passats for inventory until mid-October. It sounds like some dealers are getting them sooner.

And to perhaps finally close the vent discussion, if the car is shown and sold without vents, delivering it without vents is not de-contenting. As 'toof has posted several times, customers are getting what they agreed to purchase. Putting vents in is adding content. And whether or not a customer wants to hold out for vents, even if he or she already has a car on order, is entirely up to them.
 

El Dobro

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I guess after 1300 posts, it's confirmed that the US is getting a 2012 TDI Passat.
 

verylongdrive

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Though the side-view picture above looks like the trims without a chrome strip at the bottom of the door/bumper have a grey or body-color strip there, they actually have none at all.
But even with the stock chrome strip, or if one buys the parts and puts them on, or (beeter?) buys an unpainted rubber strip if similar appearance, this does not protect from the majority of door dings which will happen around the middle of the door. It may be hard to pick something to put there that doesn't look too stupid, but it'll give cover from a lot of people who don't give a %^@#. Of course SUV doors and pointy rear doors (like the Passat's - so convenient for opening wide!) will still get you.

I checked out the SE at the dealer and indeed, they are strongly-blowing vents under the seats. Sadly, they only work with the front foot vents alos open, and of course cold air will pool in the footwell before it goes where it needs to be.
I s'pose it took them building a few hundred cars before they started driving them around the factory grounds (in TN! in the summer!) enough for enough rear passengers to say ***? and fix this.
I hope the delay in implementing this means that they're no only rerouting it to console-mounted aimable vents, but also change it at the outlet selector in the front such that they're always on, to be closed in the rear only.

On the amber rear turn signal front, I wonder if the final China model kept the amber turn signal (as seen in the Auto Show pictures) and if the relevant wires are present near the lights? On the last car I changed over, the brake light signal feed into the turn signal switch had to be disconnected under the steering column. Would the VW method of integrating the flasher in the hazard switch put the disconnectable wire there? Worst case, an XOR of turn/brake and brake will give a pure (inverted if braking) turn signal.

The SE passenger seat does indeed have a manual lumbar support with the same motion range (not great, but way better than none) as the driver's powered support - perhaps not too hard to add the power version's motor to that.
Funny how the power lumbar two-way switch is shaped to look like the 4-way switch in cars with an up/down adjustment for the lumbar (e.g. Charger/300).

Salesdude here (2 hrs from Chattanooga) says they're now expecting the first truckload on Sept. 15, including about 15 pre-orders and an unspecified number of for-the-lot cars of unspecified ("I think mostly SEs") description.
 
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99Jet

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I just returned from another VW dealership who was pretty certain that they were going to start receiving some next week.

I'm on the fence now - am contemplating a very slightly used (10,000km) 2010 Passat Wagon. In comparing the the new with the old, it looks the the B7 doesn't have any roof rack mounting points at all (in the door frame). That's a negative as I like to use a cargo box for skiis in the winter. The 2.0T is no TDI, but it's no slouch either.

Decisions, decisions...
 

WVU TDI

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I just returned from another VW dealership who was pretty certain that they were going to start receiving some next week.

I'm on the fence now - am contemplating a very slightly used (10,000km) 2010 Passat Wagon. In comparing the the new with the old, it looks the the B7 doesn't have any roof rack mounting points at all (in the door frame). That's a negative as I like to use a cargo box for skiis in the winter. The 2.0T is no TDI, but it's no slouch either.

Decisions, decisions...
I really really REALLY love the 2.0T in the B6s, such a great combo.
 

Big Red

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let's get a good pic of a center vent. Like folks said, it's only a deposit. Can decide to buy the next car and not the one that comes in. No VIN# was on my BOS.
 

Derrel H Green

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Who Are You

Look up the definition of hypocrisy.
I asked you to stop trolling, yet you continue to do so. [Oh really?]
:)

Call it what you like, turkey! :(

Every time you open your stupid mouth with some of your dumb comments
(This from a person who considers themselves to be quality educated at Oxford?)
I will be there to stomp on your ignorant remarks with both feet.

Many of us here resent the comments you make.
Most of what you write is not at all believeable either!
So go away and stop your nonsense. Who cares whether you care about whether or not
the nicest car to come from VW in some time has underseat vents or not?
You won't buy one because you have (supposedly) a new Golf, and are tapped out! :p

:D

D
 

99Jet

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I just test drove a 2012 Highline 2.5L (no TDI available). Nice car. Fit and finish looks fine and it has outstanding passenger room. One thing I did notice was the wind noise from the side mirrors at highway speeds. It my books, that's a bigger fault than the lack of rear vents. Maybe I'm just spoiled with the bank vault-like quietness of the Enclave.

I had my heart set on getting back into a TDI, but I think I'm going to sit out for this round and get a 2010 Passat Wagon. At least I know what I'm getting into, and for less.
 

MyAvocation

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Marc,
Comparing your ultra-quiet Enclave to the 2012 Passat, how much louder is road noise at highway speeds? I've read a wide range of opinions.
 

99Jet

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Unbelievable! I called the salesman to tell him I'll take the 2010 Passat Wagon - got voicemail. Turns out he was in the process of selling it to someone else. 30 minutes too late. Oh well. Things happen for a reason...maybe a TDI is in my future after all.

@MyAvocation: The car itself is fairly quiet w.r.t. drivetrain/tire noise. The 2.5L Highline I drove had 17" Continentals on it - not sure if that's the same for the US. While I wasn't actively looking for sounds, the wind noise from the driver side mirror stood out, more prominent north of 120km/h. I'd say that the B6 is quieter than the B7. Neither as quiet as the Enclave. :)

If I do end up with a 2012, I'll take comfort in knowing that I have a practical work around for the wind noise problem - Fender audio. :D
 

PlaneCrazy

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Unbelievable! I called the salesman to tell him I'll take the 2010 Passat Wagon - got voicemail. Turns out he was in the process of selling it to someone else. 30 minutes too late. Oh well. Things happen for a reason...maybe a TDI is in my future after all.
@MyAvocation: The car itself is fairly quiet w.r.t. drivetrain/tire noise. The 2.5L Highline I drove had 17" Continentals on it - not sure if that's the same for the US. While I wasn't actively looking for sounds, the wind noise from the driver side mirror stood out, more prominent north of 120km/h. I'd say that the B6 is quieter than the B7. Neither as quiet as the Enclave. :)
If I do end up with a 2012, I'll take comfort in knowing that I have a practical work around for the wind noise problem - Fender audio. :D
I think the new Jetta has been having wind noise issues with the side mirrors as well. I hope they work out a solution. I had a B6 wagon (2007) definitely a nice car and quiet, with an engine that is much smoother than either the 2.5 or TDI. Gets decent fuel consumption too if you don't beat on it. At 100 km/h I was getting around 6.5 L/100 km, better than advertised. It would however jump up quite a bit in winter.
 

verylongdrive

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the wife and I just ordered our Passat.... we are looking at January for delivery!

:D
I just don't understand that. Even given a 3 weeks to transport the car, and 3 weeks from build start to QA (both ludicrously generous, I would think), this would mean they're backlogged with ordered cars until mid-November, which, at whatever fraction of 150k cars a year they're running now, would be that fraction of 30k ordered cars. Not likely.

I thought when you order a car and a matching unassigned car is not already being built/shipped, your spec gets in line to start being built within days. Is that not so? IS there a need to age orders before getting on them?
 

99Jet

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I think the new Jetta has been having wind noise issues with the side mirrors as well. I hope they work out a solution. I had a B6 wagon (2007) definitely a nice car and quiet, with an engine that is much smoother than either the 2.5 or TDI. Gets decent fuel consumption too if you don't beat on it. At 100 km/h I was getting around 6.5 L/100 km, better than advertised. It would however jump up quite a bit in winter.
I found another low mileage Passat Wagon in great shape and should have it next week. Warranty till 2016 too! I'll be happy if I realize that kind of mileage. Pic:

I noticed on myturbodiesel.com that the Euro-Passat has slightly different mirrors than the American-Passat. I wonder if the noise is found on it too.
One reviewer said it was noticeable after 60mph but also commented on the road noise which I didn't really hear. He was running on Hankook, not Continentals that I had. Popular Mechanics had a similar note.
Good luck to all those who are getting in a 2012 - it's one hell of a car that will no doubt sell well. If it's two things I wish my new/old 2010 had, it's the 2012's rear leg room and a TDI engine!
 

kjclow

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We test drove the Passat today, as well as the Jetta sedan and Golf. I would say that the Passat was the quietest of all but did not feel any real difference in road noise. My wife liked how she sat up higher in the passat (more seat cushion height?)and the bigger mirrors. Even at 70+, I did not notice any noise from the mirrors. She did not like having to look over the large headrests in the backseat and thought they blocked her righthand blind spot. (I thought she never checked blind spots!) All in all, she liked the Golf best and will probably sign the papers to replace the CR-V this week.

As for supply, VW South in Charlotte, said they have 18 coming in starting September 15 with about half of them presold. So I am guessing that the January delivery for eatpasta's passat is probably to make sure that all preorders have been filled and that each dealer has at least a half dozen sitting on the lot for immediate sale. Maybe eatpasta has a color configuration that VW hasn't actually put together yet.
 

bhtooefr

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Looking at one of these cars in the flesh, I do have a concern about the fuel system.

The fuel system routing, if it hasn't been posted in this thread already, is this:

Tank -> filter dirty side
Filter clean side -> HPFP
HPFP bleed -> tank
HPFP -> rail bleed -> filter (knowing VW, it's probably the clean side, but don't know.)

Note that there's no way for rail bleed (which is some very hot fuel) to get to the tank. Therefore, there's no thermal management of that fuel.

I wonder what will happen to fuel temperatures on these cars.
 

donDavide

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Rims

I found another low mileage Passat Wagon in great shape and should have it next week. Warranty till 2016 too! I'll be happy if I realize that kind of mileage. Pic:

I noticed on myturbodiesel.com that the Euro-Passat has slightly different mirrors than the American-Passat. I wonder if the noise is found on it too.
One reviewer said it was noticeable after 60mph but also commented on the road noise which I didn't really hear. He was running on Hankook, not Continentals that I had. Popular Mechanics had a similar note.
Good luck to all those who are getting in a 2012 - it's one hell of a car that will no doubt sell well. If it's two things I wish my new/old 2010 had, it's the 2012's rear leg room and a TDI engine!

I really like those 18"
 

740GLE

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Looking at one of these cars in the flesh, I do have a concern about the fuel system.

The fuel system routing, if it hasn't been posted in this thread already, is this:

Tank -> filter dirty side
Filter clean side -> HPFP
HPFP bleed -> tank
HPFP -> rail bleed -> filter (knowing VW, it's probably the clean side, but don't know.)

Note that there's no way for rail bleed (which is some very hot fuel) to get to the tank. Therefore, there's no thermal management of that fuel.

I wonder what will happen to fuel temperatures on these cars.
Good point, maybe they've taken into account that if you're generating enough heat in the fuel rail, you're also using that fuel through the injectors instead of bleeding it off, and that'll be the big difference between the CJAA and this engine.

Or that the HPFP bleed is much less when the engine's cold, and when everything heats up, the ECU shifts the majority of bleeding to the HPFP when possible to use the tank as giant heat sink.
 

abctdi

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Mirror wind noise;
My 2005 has it. It does not bother me any more.
Some new cars have those bulbous headlights that deflect the air over the mirrors, but they are fugly.
 
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Banned so Watch what You Say

:)

My exact thoughts my friend ! Rather well said!

Who cares if the first early or even later Passats have under seat vents IF they are not going
to buy one, and we all know that a certain individual from Ohio (?) is not in
any postion to do so, having 'claimed' to recently purchased a TDI Golf!

This same person recently called me a troll! Check out
all my posts and when I first joined this forum.

:D

D
:)

Comments by both of us got us banned .

Shame shame! :(

:D

D
 

breind01

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
I just don't understand that. Even given a 3 weeks to transport the car, and 3 weeks from build start to QA (both ludicrously generous, I would think), this would mean they're backlogged with ordered cars until mid-November, which, at whatever fraction of 150k cars a year they're running now, would be that fraction of 30k ordered cars. Not likely.

I thought when you order a car and a matching unassigned car is not already being built/shipped, your spec gets in line to start being built within days. Is that not so? IS there a need to age orders before getting on them?
We ordered our 2012 Passat TDI SEL on 9/8 and was told to expect delivery sometime around mid October. We ordered the Opera Red and wonder if anyone has seen this vehicle in this color? If anyone has seen this color other than the color swatch, please tell us what you think.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I have. It looks great. Similar to the Red Pearl in the '96 Passat, but a bit richer. I don't usually like red cars, but this color is a winner.
 
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