HELP! Blown Turbo? Blown Seal? Shredded TB? MAF?

Driving home last night, I had a total of power accompanied by a high pitched whine which coincided with the speed of the engine. No clattering sounds, no grinding. I was passing a car, my speed was propably 70-75 mph.

Pedal to the floor seemed to make it worse. It would stumble and rev as I pushed the pedal but engine was sluggish. I looked in the rearview to see if I could see any smoke, sometimes I can at night through the headlights of cars behind me, but nothing was obvious.

Car ran long enough to get out of the express lanes and get over but died before I could stop. No power assist on steering or braking made for a fun time.

NO idiot lights came on. Once stopped I could not restart the vehicle, not even in limp mode. Car would turn over, and sounded 'normal' at least no unusual noises but would not run. MIL light was on.

VW Drivers Assistance actually was quite pleasant and arranged for a tow. They stayed in contact with me the whole time. Kudos to VOA for that one.

I did not have VAG-COM with me, I could not pull any codes.

Oil level seemed ok, halfway up on the hatched area. I could not see any oil near the turbo or in the belly pan. I would expect loss of oil with bad seal or blown turbo, but then again, it did not run for more than 15-20 when this happened.

I had about a 10 mile drive to get to the highway, temp needle was straight up at 190. I do not think it was fuel gelling (20 deg in chicago), i had double dosed with Diesel Kleen white bottle at last fill up.

I thought about MAF sensor, but that would not explain the high pitched whine, which was louder than than the radio. GF noticed the whine, then looked over at my paniced faced and realized something was up as I wrestled the car over to the shoulder.

Turbo issues seem to make more sense: vane actuator, blown seal, etc.
I did not have tools to check air filter to make sure there were no obstructions.

Details: 2004 Jetta TDi, 35,600miles, TDI Heater, CAT filter.

Car was a the dealer a couple of weeks ago for low coolant. They could not find a leak but noticed seepage around the TDI heater connections. They tightend the clamps and said they could not find anyhting else.
(Terry was there when I installed the heater at Lake Mills GTG in 04.I am confident that the install is good).

So the car is at the tow truck yard, will go to the dealer Friday. I have access to the car in the meantime. Panic and paranioa have set in.

Any thoughts on what happened? Blown Turbo? Blown Seal? Plugged Intake? Bad MAF? Shredded TB? N75? Open intake somewhere?

I came here to find the upgraded site which was cool and searched for a few things, but it seems that Turbo problems are more catastrophic.

Luckily, I have my PSD so at least I am with a diesel of some kind this thanksgiving.

If anyone has had anything similar happen, I would appreciate the input.

I hope everyone had a good/better Thanksgiving.

Dennis

Sounds like you blew a hose off the turbo, but I'm just guessing.

The verdict is a bad tandem pump. They changed the tandem pump, but the car still won't start.

I was not part of the original pump recall campaign.

The verdict now is to do the COMPLETE cold start TSB: change injectors, change glowplugs, GPR, harness.

Could the tandem pump have locked up and made the timing belt skip a gear?

I asked the dealer to check the cam. They said it 'looked' fine, but i asked them to mic it.

How does the engine sense timing anyhow?

Does the cam timing gear attach to the cam like the older engines with a keyed taper?

Thanks in advance

Dennis

No key. I doubt that slipped. WAY too tight. I think the pump locked up and you slipped a tooth or they have the timing set wrong when they put the new pump in. Have them do the full lock down and SHOW you the timing make on the flywheel with the pin in the invection pump and the air pump off the drivers side of the block. You then will see it that's correct. If it is then they need to VAGCOM it to set the timing by adjusting the 3 bolts on the pump. Oh, check the tensioner and make sure it's set tight enough.

Jason, this is a PD. I didn't think the TDI Timing applet applied to the new engines

-J

Give it to the dealer and hope for the best.
Its under warrenty its their problem

Any chance the failed tandem pump has discharged a load of metallic particles into the injectors, ruining them?

compu_85 said:

Jason, this is a PD. I didn't think the TDI Timing applet applied to the new engines

-J

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my bad! Thought it was funny with the tandem pump thing.....Show's how many PD's I've worked on....

It just gets better and better!

I went to the dealer today. My car was running, barley....

I saw the old injectors. The tips were coked up bad. I could not even see any of the holes in the nozzle . The gunge looked awfuly like the intake gunge.

The mechanic said that the roving VW tech rep was in today to help with my car in the morning.

So far, they have replaced the injectors, glow plugs, relay and harness (i think).

Problem is that there is no power.

I asked about the MAF sensor and I got funny looks.

They said they checked the intercooler. They 'think' that the catalytic converter is plugged and/or has caused it to blow the turbo.

I asked about the EGR valve and they said that it was plugged up and they cleaned it. I asked about the intake, and they said they did not take it off and could not see inside of it.

Next step is to pull the catalytic converter and then maybe the turbo. I asked about intake cleaning and they said its not in the course of action right now. I asked if they took the turbo off, would they take the manifold off to. I did not get a straight answer. I am hoping that my questions may prompt them to think about it.

Thank goodnes for waranty. I guess the total bill to VW is on the order of $3000 so far. Yikes!

dennis

It's great that they are fixing your car under warranty. But... has anyone suggested to you what caused these problems?

a blocked intake at 35kmiles would surprise me.

now they are replacing tUrBo

i am heading over to the dealer with camera in hand

" the turbo impeller is displaced about 1/2" off center"

i would think that they would give me distances in metric. they said turbo wheel is off center and scraping the housing.

no schrapnelling of the vanes either. hmmm

so far all under waranty

hoping to take pics of the injectors too.

i will rake them over the coals about the intake too.


dennis

h0ly tUrbonuim batman!

Oh my gracious! This is one BLOWN turbo....



Here is a picture of a 'new' turbo (granted its for an A3, but its the cleanest picture of one i could find)



Mine appears to be missing the impeller nut. I wonder if its what is lodged in there and has forced the wheel over.

The tech suspects that the initial problem was the turbo going bad (the noise that I heard) and the tandem pump went bad when "they" were trying to get it started when it was no-start in the lot. (Doesn't the manual caution against over-cranking the engine?). Anyhow, we will see what the result of all the new bits and peices are on things like mileage and power, etc...

S'more pics-







So a new turbo to boot with my new injectors and GP's. I wonder how long this one will last.

I also talked to the service director today. The same guy I talked to about things like f'd up oil changes, bad crank/cam positions sensors, clusters going bad. You know, the usual run of the mill stuff.

When he saw me he asked 'what brings you here?' and I motioned towards my car and said 'oh just a couple of things like new injectors, new glow plugs, and a new turbo) He was surprised that it was my car that was getting worked over. We talked about the regional VW service tech that came over and 'helped' changing out my injectors and what my options from here on out. He was very sympathetic and frankly very helpful. Surprisingly, there are more remedies to be had if it gets worse.

We also talked about the addition of a EGR filter, and he said he has never heard of one. I explained it to him, and he said as long as it does not restrict the operation of the EGR, he does not care. As far as my 2 micron CAT filter, he didn;t care about that either. As long as the car was not chipped nor did i mess with the turbo boost mechanisms, he could care less.

No we wait for a new O2 sensor....

The loaner I got was a Pontiac G6. I hate to admit it, but its not a bad car....still its no TDi!

And another turbo for me

after all that work the car was pretty gutless. i was happy with the cold morning starts but after warm up, the car is just plain gutless.


low speeds, engine would rev up, but had little power.

get onto the highway, up to say 55-60 in 5th and then flooring it to pass the car would actually SLOW down.

Took it into the dealer and took the service tech for a ride and he admitted that something was not right.

The diagnosis after a few days: the ‘new’ turbo was ‘defective’.

How can a turbo be defective? It should go or not go! UGH!

Hah! More idiots that can't install turbos! The boggered mine THREE times on the install!!!!! I finally offered to do it for them to save some money! A different tech from VW then came out and did the install.

Did the shaft nut unscrew itself on the old turbo?

DPM said:

Did the shaft nut unscrew itself on the old turbo?

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that's a good question. there were no visible threads on the end of the shaft of the first munched turbo.

second, don;t know. i will ask to see it when i get the car.

either way, it's pretty bad.

the tech showed me the new turbo assembly when it came in. it was complete with exhaust manifold and all.

it had serious lag at all speed ranges. i am more inclined to think that there was something wrong with the vanes or actuator.

So what can they do wrong when they bolt in a new turbocharger? Is there some specific setup on how to install this. A very curious mind wants to know.

I am surprised your turbo blew. I had a 1984 Chrysler Laser (don't laugh too hard, the electronics stunk in that car) in which when I got rid of it at 110000 miles it had the original working turbo charger. I used a special version of valvoline called Turbo V, which was a 15w40 oil. Ran great on that. Engine itself never gave me a lick of trouble.

Holy crap! Dennis that's a great deal of ....lets just say ..work on your PD. Have you got it back yet?

Matt,

Dennis got the car back but he isn't happy yet. Trying to decide what he's going to do now. I tt him about it last night. Well, with all the snow he's driving the powerstroke around anyway so it dosen't really matter!

More likely, it's something that is not telling the turbo vanes what to do. A vacuum problem or the control valve... or a sensor with a bad reading. As far as the cause of the first turbo going south... you got me.

Thanks Jason. Sorry about the name mix-up. I fixed it. Yeah Dennis that car sounds too good to be true ..LOL

Good luck with that one. I am sure the problem will be resolved when you get the time. If you need help, remember I am here in Kenosha and Jason is over by Madison..

As posted, a very similiar thing happend to me with my 04 PD with Automatic. The turbo actually blew up and the bits of turbo lodged themselves into the intercooler and on to the pistons. I ended having to have a new engine, turbo, intercooler and all intake plumbing replaced. Would have been expensive if it were not inder warranty.

Makes me wonder how often these things blow up. I am wondering if I should buy the extended warranty (have ~30K on it now) or just get rid of it for an 06 TDI or GLI.

Mike

SilverTDIPDJetta said:

Makes me wonder how often these things blow up. I am wondering if I should buy the extended warranty (have ~30K on it now) or just get rid of it for an 06 TDI or GLI.

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How often does lightning strike the same place? How often do tornados hit the same trailer park?

Seems like par for the course. Just keep throwing parts in it until it can limp away. I had a friend with an Audi that the VW/Audi dealership put 5K worth of parts into. Problem was a $15 rubber gasket that was letting moisture into the ECU!! After the VW stealership gets through throwing parts at it find a nice indie mech. JasonTDI did my rear brakes at the Fest for almost free! parts and labor under 100- VW wanted 250 to "turn the rotors" and put pads on it. Yeah I know they are so thin you need to replace them- that Stealership hasn't seen any of our 3 VW's since!

TornadoRed said:

How often does lightning strike the same place? How often do tornados hit the same trailer park?

Click to expand...

That was exactly my thought. Until I started hearing about this failure more and more. Mine was a little more unusual because the turbo disintegrated, where most of the stories I have heard involve the turbo just getting stuck of being off center. I don't want to get rid of my car, I really like it. But, the thought of being stuck with a $9,800 repair bill leaves me a bit nervous. Still, you may be right, the chances of this happening to me more than once are probably pretty low.

Also, with nearly 30K on the clock and no other problems, why start over with a new VW and the possibility of many new problems.

Still, the question of wheather to buy the extended warranty remains.

it seems that there are a bunch of us with PD's that have had turbos going bad at the 39-35k mark. that would lead one to believe that this is a COMPOMENT failure rather than one specific dealership being incomepetent. replacement turbos are rebuilt units, not new ones.

my failures were not as catastrophic as silver's. the biggest issues for me was the dealers unwillingness to find the missing bits and peices and check things like the intercooler, manifold and do a compression test. without that info, all confidence in the durability went to zero and the dealer did not do anyhting to make up for it.

vw customer care has left me hanging on this one. i got lots of lip service and no follow through

why start over? starting the clock on a new, fresh, longer warranty. the propability of lightening striking twice are slim. A5 is a different car all together. th 06 is growing on me. i was not as excited about it as the 04, but i am glad it traded up. creature comforts are nicer. mileage seems to be better. what sucks is undoing the mods and trying to sell the parts.

I was going to ask if anyone checked the EGR cooler as a lot of them are failing, but it sounds like a moot question at this point.

TornadoRed said:

How often does lightning strike the same place? How often do tornados hit the same trailer park?

Click to expand...

If it was a big one only once then it becomes a parking lot I used to live in a Mobile home in NC so I am lot bashing MHP's

New Car

So you traded up? I'd like to take a peek at a new one. With 235k on my '01 I might be due for an upgrade too.... in my dreams .

Anyway how does it ride?