BioPro 190 Used?

sammyman

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I'm interested in purchasing a BioPro 190 used. The problem is it just doesn't make sense. I only have one TDI wagon, and I drive about 30-35k miles a year. With my 50mpg vehicle, it will take forever for a system like this to pay for itself. Considering to buy a diesel truck at some point, but nothing anytime soon.

I found a BioPro used for $4k. So it should take about 3 years for this machine to pay for itself. And by then, I probably will be ready sell the wagon and get a new car.

I'm not interested in any appleseed type device because I don't have enough time. Also, my space is pretty limited, and I have no source of oil.

Is BioDiesel on its way out? Too much hassle? Or should I go for it and have cheap fuel for the next few years?
 

SFHGolfTDI

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Where are you? By far the easiest is to get premade astm quality biodiesel. Are you in Canada or California? Here in Los Angeles, there is a biodiesel cooperative (http://www.biodieselcoopla.com/). It is cheaper to make it yourself, but a hassle and as you saw up front cost of a machine like biopro is quite a bit. If you are in the Bay area you should have no problem finding it at a few places.
 

sammyman

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Where are you? By far the easiest is to get premade astm quality biodiesel. Are you in Canada or California? Here in Los Angeles, there is a biodiesel cooperative (http://www.biodieselcoopla.com/). It is cheaper to make it yourself, but a hassle and as you saw up front cost of a machine like biopro is quite a bit. If you are in the Bay area you should have no problem finding it at a few places.
Yes, we can purchase it at about 3 places that I know of so far. Blue Sky Fuel ($4.20), Bio Oasis ($4.59) and Propel B20 ($4.21).

The problem is that isn't $1/ gallon. At those prices, I will be sticking with diesel and B20. At $1/gallon I'd go B100 which would be awesome and it would be nice to fill up in my garage. The hassle would be pretty significant, primarily collecting used oil... Have no idea about that yet. One guy on the phone told me I was wasting my time and he was the owner of a biofuel company!
 

sammyman

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Skip the processor for $4K and build the Appleseed generator instead.
Interested, but I have no time for that. I read up on it and I think I could do 20 minutes per batch (BioPro 190). That is impossible on an Appleseed.
 

adamrc

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The BioPro is a great unit. I say go for it. I've had one for the past 5 years and it has saved lots of time and work.
 

SFHGolfTDI

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It's a good price on one of those if you have a good source of wvo.
 

sammyman

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That is the biggest problem. I live in an area where tons of people make biodiesel. I haven't asked anyone yet, but I'm guessing wvo is hard to find.
 

SFHGolfTDI

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Try asking around in the homebrew community and see what you find out. Ideally you can work something out with a local restaurant, school, cafeteria, or something. It is getting harder to find WVO b/c most places are locked into contracts with collectors who sell it to larger regional biodiesel producers. Would be curious to hear what you end up doing. I always liked that BioPro 190 machine. Looks like a great setup, but seems it is harder for homebrewers these days. Keep us posted!
 

TomB

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Interested, but I have no time for that. I read up on it and I think I could do 20 minutes per batch (BioPro 190). That is impossible on an Appleseed.
Not sure what you have been reading, but the Appleseed is NOT that complicated and time consuming.

So you would spend $4000 and have to buy their products just to save some time? Really? How much is your time really worth?

If you are this pressed for time then I would just find an ASTM retail source and not bother making it yourself. You really need to do the testing too to confirm the batch is good, regardless of the processor.

If you are going to rush or not take your time to do this right, then you will have issue with your BD. Just letting you know up front that this is not something to rush or speed up to suit your timeline. It takes what it takes, just like wine.
 
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Tap2112

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Sammy,
I own a BioPro 380. I used to own two BioPro 190s. They are great machines. Industrial grade, durable, easy to use. However, you will not make fuel with 20 minutes invested per batch. They make it sound like that on the website, but truth is I spend almost 2 hours per batch since I am very picky about the fuel I make and take extra steps and care to produce perfect fuel. While the machine is capable of that, you can't do it with 20 minutes time investment.

I don't know where in CA you are located, but the fueling stations you referenced seem to be located in the Bay Area. If you are there I would welcome you to come by and see my machine and view/test the Biodiesel I make to see what this machine can do. I would also give you whatever pointers you want. $4000 for a good condition BioPro 190 is an excellent price. I sold my used ones for $7000 each last year. In fact, if you don't buy the machine at $4K then let me know where it is and I will consider buying it as a second machine to use with my 380.

I own two TDI's and an F250 and all have been running on straight B100 for 2 years. These cars really like it.
 

TomB

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I went to their website.

Anyone who makes BD knows you must Titrate EVERY batch since the composition of FFA (Free Fatty Acids) vary by each lot. They do NOT say to do this in there process. How can they know what concentration/quantity of Methanol and Lye to add? They assume high and hope they wash out the residual later?

As well the published processing times are 48 hours, 21.5 hours and 12.5 hours. The 48 hours is the same as the Appleseed. Once you add the methoxide (methanol/lye solution) you turn the pump on and come back later.

$7000 for these units? Really? I thought $4000 was excessive. Someone is GOUGING people with this pricing. HUGE profit margin built into this product.

To be clear neither of you work for, are associated with BioPro, a dealer or will benefit in anyway from pushing these products, right? I can clearly state I am NOT affiliated in anyway with any BD company or entity, just a regular consumer.
 
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Tap2112

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I went to their website.
Anyone who makes BD knows you must Titrate EVERY batch since the composition of FFA (Free Fatty Acids) vary by each lot. They do NOT say to do this in there process. How can they know what concentration/quantity of Methanol and Lye to add? They assume high and hope they wash out the residual later?
I agree every batch should be titrated and I do that (which is why I suggested it takes more than 20 minutes to complete a batch with the pickiness of my own process).
However, as long as your oil titrates at 9 or less, and is relatively water free, you can use the predetermined amount of chemicals they recommend and be fine. Yes you will be using more than necessary much of the time, but their wash process is very thorough and cleans/dries the Bio very well.
Personally, I add an additional process that they don't even advertise on their website called glycerin stripping (or glycerin washing) which lowers the titration levels and virtually insures water free oil before processing.

As well the published processing times are 48 hours, 21.5 hours and 12.5 hours. The 48 hours is the same as the Appleseed. Once you add the methoxide (methanol/lye solution) you turn the pump on and come back later.
Yes, 48 hours is the same for the appleseed, but there are many differences. With the BioPro everything is contained in one single unit. No moving fluids from one container to another to process/wash/dry. Also it is made from 304 SS, and uses all explosion proof pumps and motors. Much safer than a home built appleseed.

$7000 for these units? Really? I thought $4000 was excessive. Someone is GOUGING people with this pricing. HUGE profit margin built into this product.
No question they are making a profit. Springboard is not in business as a non profit. However, take into consideration they are chemists and engineers who designed this unit. Not hobbyists. The R&D, plus manufacturing for the unit had significant upfront costs. You don't think it costs Pfizer $15 per pill to make their medicine, right? Their upfront costs are recouped over time in the higher margin of the product. While the BioPro pricing isn't cheap, if you can find a good condition used one it is well worth the investment for the ease of use, higher safety of the product, and reduced mess and time involvement. Also a smaller footprint in your garage since it only requires one container for the entire process - soup to nuts.

To be clear neither of you work for, are associated with BioPro, a dealer or will benefit in anyway from pushing these products, right? I can clearly state I am NOT affiliated in anyway with any BD company or entity, just a regular consumer.
I do not work for Springboard, nor do I make a single penny for advocating for them directly or indirectly. I just strongly believe in what they build. Interestingly, I have never bought a brand new unit from them so as much as I espouse their products, I have always bought mine second hand due to the ruggedness of what they build. No need to buy it brand new when these things are built rock solid.
 
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SFHGolfTDI

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Tap, can you share how and where you go about getting your wvo? I've always been interested in homebrew and in the biopro, but that seems like the most difficult part.
 

TomB

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Tap, can you share how and where you go about getting your wvo? I've always been interested in homebrew and in the biopro, but that seems like the most difficult part.
WVO is the hardest thing to get now. Many cities are requiring it to be recycled by companies and not allowing people to just take it.

Grow your own feedstock? I have 5 acres so I could grow Mustard Seed or one of the other easy to extract oil plants and thought about that. It would just be some watering and nature does the rest. :)

I know it sounds insane, hence why I haven't gotten around to even trying a test crop.
 

Tap2112

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Tap, can you share how and where you go about getting your wvo? I've always been interested in homebrew and in the biopro, but that seems like the most difficult part.
Sourcing oil is definitely where the work is involved. I have cultivated a sizeable volume of restaurants over the two years I have been doing this. I literally went door to door speaking with restaurant owners and kitchen managers. You have to have a sales mentality since you must sell them on why YOU should be their new renderer, as most likely they are already using someone else.

The keys are:
  • price - now restaurants expect to be paid for their oil instead of paying to have it hauled away
  • cleanliness - the last thing they want is some unprofessional slob making a mess that they can get fined for by the health dept if you spill
  • consistency - when they need their drum emptied they have to know you will be there on schedule. Without this they have no place to dump their oil

If you can put your sales cap on and speak intelligently to the owners on these topics you will have a good shot. Here in California we have more stringent requirements since they have categorized WVO as "IKG" (inedible kitchen grease) and that requires a permit/registration to haul.
 
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Tap2112

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Grow your own feedstock? I have 5 acres so I could grow Mustard Seed or one of the other easy to extract oil plants and thought about that. It would just be some watering and nature does the rest. :)

I know it sounds insane, hence why I haven't gotten around to even trying a test crop.
Not as insane as you might think if you have the time and property to do it. Interesting that you mention mustard seed...I just picked up 825 gallons of virgin mustard seed oil this past January. Never processed that oil before but it makes a great winter fuel since it has a much lower gel point than soy or canola oil...allowing one to run the fuel in the middle of winter without any concerns even below freezing.
 

TomB

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Not as insane as you might think if you have the time and property to do it. Interesting that you mention mustard seed...I just picked up 825 gallons of virgin mustard seed oil this past January. Never processed that oil before but it makes a great winter fuel since it has a much lower gel point than soy or canola oil...allowing one to run the fuel in the middle of winter without any concerns even below freezing.
Yep, I was thinking about that as well as it's yield per acre is high.
 

Tap2112

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Yep, I was thinking about that as well as it's yield per acre is high.
That has the ringing bells of a business opportunity...
 
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