Traded my 09 JSW TDI for an Outback

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

Hello all,
Been lurking here mostly for a few years and decided to trade my 2009 JSW for a 2008 Subaru Outback. The VW had 45,000 miles on it and was a very good running car. The problem was that the closer I was getting to the 60,000 mile power train warranty expiration the more I worried about having to deal with the HPFP failing, not willing to have to pay for a failure that could be relatively easy to resolve for VW if they were paying attention.

I am of the belief that VW could do one of two things to make the issue a non issue or a low cost repair.
1- Step up and replace the pump with a properly designed and engineered pump. Siemens for example. OR,
2- Install a filter "after" all of the fuel pumps and before the injectors, this could be done on all new MY cars from the factory and, the filter could be retro fitted to the existing cars currently on the road. A filter exists that can more than handle the pressure and the particles that the pump sheds, when/if the pump fails, replace the pump, clean out the fuel line to the filter, replace filter element, start car and go.

If these fuel systems are going to be so expensive than all car companies should be protecting the parts and the consumer from such a failure.

No person should be on the hook for a $8-10,000.00 single item repair on a vehical. Until VW gets their st together I'll be driving a soobie.

Dan

Claudio · Jan 31, 2012

how much did you get for your 09?

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

I got 18,000 for the JSW, pretty good I think.

Dan

Roshermoore · Jan 31, 2012

Trade in value

amthatiam said:
I got 18,000 for the JSW, pretty good I think.

Dan

Saying that you got $18K for your JSW is useless without knowing what you paid for the Outback in relation to MSRP. I'm assuming you traded it.

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

I paid $18800.00 for the outback.

Dan

PeterV · Jan 31, 2012

Well we have an "00 Forrester not a bad car for the winter beater.

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

Roshermoore said:
Saying that you got $18K for your JSW is useless without knowing what you paid for the Outback in relation to MSRP. I'm assuming you traded it.

I don't think I could have been more clear, if you read the post you would see that in the title I traded the car, and in the body of the post it clearly states that I traded the car.

Dan

South Coast Guy · Jan 31, 2012

Wait til you fill up with premium and only average 19 mpg.

tdiatlast · Jan 31, 2012

amthatiam said:
Hello all,
Been lurking here mostly for a few years and decided to trade my 2009 JSW for a 2008 Subaru Outback. The VW had 45,000 miles on it and was a very good running car. The problem was that the closer I was getting to the 60,000 mile power train warranty expiration the more I worried about having to deal with the HPFP failing, not willing to have to pay for a failure that could be relatively easy to resolve for VW if they were paying attention.

I am of the belief that VW could do one of two things to make the issue a non issue or a low cost repair.
1- Step up and replace the pump with a properly designed and engineered pump. Siemens for example. OR,
2- Install a filter "after" all of the fuel pumps and before the injectors, this could be done on all new MY cars from the factory and, the filter could be retro fitted to the existing cars currently on the road. A filter exists that can more than handle the pressure and the particles that the pump sheds, when/if the pump fails, replace the pump, clean out the fuel line to the filter, replace filter element, start car and go.

If these fuel systems are going to be so expensive than all car companies should be protecting the parts and the consumer from such a failure.

No person should be on the hook for a $8-10,000.00 single item repair on a vehical. Until VW gets their st together I'll be driving a soobie.

Dan

Do us all a big favor and tell us where to find said filter. There are several die-hard TDI gurus here that have been diligently exploring ways to do exactly that, and the minute they come up with said filter, we would all be scurrying to install it.

So, please let us, and VWoA, know about this special filter. Better yet, just PM me, I'll get a patent on it, and retire early

!

Enjoy your new ride. I have great respect for the Subaru concept...except the mileage...

cevans · Jan 31, 2012

Dan - sorry to see you go. Subaru's are notoriously reliable vehicles & I'm sure you'll enjoy the ride for years to come.

While the HPFP issues were alarming, the rates of failure have dropped significantly of recent, especially considering that VW is selling more TDIs than ever.

I'm a firm believer that the VW models are longer lasting than any other cars on the road. I don't know of anyone with 500k miles on a Subaru, even 200k is rare. This is in comparison to VW TDIs that have 200k and are considered middle-aged. A good way to judge longevity is to search on Craigslist and compare mileage and price. I wouldn't try to keep the Subie if you are planning on putting a boatload of miles on it, but until 100k or so it should be bulletproof.

For now enjoy your Subaru and we hope to see you back here in a few years with a new TDI!

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

tdiatlast said:
Do us all a big favor and tell us where to find said filter. There are several die-hard TDI gurus here that have been diligently exploring ways to do exactly that, and the minute they come up with said filter, we would all be scurrying to install it.

So, please let us, and VWoA, know about this special filter. Better yet, just PM me, I'll get a patent on it, and retire early!

Enjoy your new ride. I have great respect for the Subaru concept...except the mileage...

Spare me your sarcasm tdiatlast and go to www.normanfilter.com it is on their home page, it is an inline filter. They also have other filters that will work as well. Only took me about a minute of diligent searching to find this filter online. I posted this about a year or so ago and no gurus including yourself have come up with an installation using this filter as of yet.

Dan

DeliveryValve · Jan 31, 2012

tdiatlast said:
Do us all a big favor and tell us where to find said filter. There are several die-hard TDI gurus here that have been diligently exploring ways to do exactly that, and the minute they come up with said filter, we would all be scurrying to install it.......

Would this filter type be the solution?
http://www.normanfilters.com/30Khighpressureinlinefilters.html

http://www.normanfilters.com/catalogs/new/30K Flyer Form 30K 02-2006c 117288 REV1.pdf

It seems to me it can be, with the stainless steel mesh filter.

.

DeliveryValve · Jan 31, 2012

amthatiam said:
Spare me your sarcasm tdiatlast and go to www.normanfilter.com it is on their home page, it is an inline filter. They also have other filters that will work as well. Only took me about a minute of diligent searching to find this filter online. I posted this about a year or so ago and no gurus including yourself have come up with an installation using this filter as of yet.

Dan

Oh you beat me to it by a few minutes.

DasTeknoViking · Jan 31, 2012

keep an eye out on the head gaskets.... had a few Scoobies and the 2.5s are leakers. Had a 08 that came in on trade at work that was leaking oil out the gaskets like a mofo. Also I don't know where ya from, but if its a snow belt state you might want to go through and put an extra effort into undercoating it. My last Legacy rusted out big time, its still kicking with 250K miles, but its a reliable EJ22 SOHC.

akafred · Jan 31, 2012

i agree they should filter the output on hpfp and return line.

the only problem being the 2 extra filter would probably cost more than designing a good pump.

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

cevans said:
Dan - sorry to see you go. Subaru's are notoriously reliable vehicles & I'm sure you'll enjoy the ride for years to come.

While the HPFP issues were alarming, the rates of failure have dropped significantly of recent, especially considering that VW is selling more TDIs than ever.

I'm a firm believer that the VW models are longer lasting than any other cars on the road. I don't know of anyone with 500k miles on a Subaru, even 200k is rare. This is in comparison to VW TDIs that have 200k and are considered middle-aged. A good way to judge longevity is to search on Craigslist and compare mileage and price. I wouldn't try to keep the Subie if you are planning on putting a boatload of miles on it, but until 100k or so it should be bulletproof.

For now enjoy your Subaru and we hope to see you back here in a few years with a new TDI!

Hi cevans,
I see on the various Subaru forums that their are many with well over 250,000 miles, one with 393,000 plus and counting. I will miss the fuel milage and the seats were more comfortable in the Jetta.

As for long term I will be waiting to see what the outcome of all the investigation and the long term solution that VW comes up with. I am sure that I will be back, just not until VW gets it right.

An all wheel drive diesel sport wagen with a reliable pump would bring me back tomorrow, or if Subaru would import their diesel outback well than I would have one of those.

Dan

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

DasTeknoViking said:
keep an eye out on the head gaskets.... had a few Scoobies and the 2.5s are leakers. Had a 08 that came in on trade at work that was leaking oil out the gaskets like a mofo. Also I don't know where ya from, but if its a snow belt state you might want to go through and put an extra effort into undercoating it. My last Legacy rusted out big time, its still kicking with 250K miles, but its a reliable EJ22 SOHC.

Thanks for the heads up, I'm aware of the head gasket issues with the subies, I'll be keeping an eye on it, the car has 43,000 miles on it so it should be a while before I have to worry.

Dan

DasTeknoViking · Jan 31, 2012

Keep a good eye on it, you might still have power train warranty left on it....

Had a 08 with just 56K and it was leaking so bad that it was leaking all over the exhaust manifolds causing a nice smoke show from under the hood... this was a trade in at work that I was certifying for resale at the dealership I wrench at.

JM Popaleetus · Jan 31, 2012

These fear-mongering threads are getting old.

Seriously, does anyone really care anymore? I'd personally prefer that this forum stay on-topic; I don't care if you traded in your car for something else. If it's not a TDI, it doesn't belong here.

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

JM Popaleetus said:
These fear-mongering threads are getting old.

Seriously, does anyone really care anymore? I'd personally prefer that this forum stay on-topic; I don't care if you traded in your car for something else. If it's not a TDI, it doesn't belong here.

I don't care that you don't care.

Dan

Cali-Wagen · Jan 31, 2012

filter design

JM Popaleetus said:
These fear-mongering threads are getting old.

Seriously, does anyone really care anymore? I'd personally prefer that this forum stay on-topic; I don't care if you traded in your car for something else. If it's not a TDI, it doesn't belong here.

Long time reader, 1st time poster.
Greetings to all.
I have a TDI as well - love the machine.

Just want to throw my 0.02$ in the ring!
The pressure post-pump is ~30,000psi +/-
So the filter structure would have to be capable of that?
And adding a filter in line would create a pressure drop that the pump would need to overcome, or loose flow.

Still, not a robust design it seems for a system that should run 150K-200K miles.

Regards,

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

Cali-Wagen said:
Long time reader, 1st time poster.
Greetings to all.
I have a TDI as well - love the machine.

Just want to throw my 0.02$ in the ring!
The pressure post-pump is ~30,000psi +/-
So the filter structure would have to be capable of that?
And adding a filter in line would create a pressure drop that the pump would need to overcome, or loose flow.

Still, not a robust design it seems for a system that should run 150K-200K miles.

Regards,

The filter that Norman filter makes will handle more than the pump can produce, it will also flow at 5.5 gallons per minute, I don't think their would be a pressure drop across that.

Dan

tdiatlast · Jan 31, 2012

No, I'm not a guru, nor do I pretend to be.
Yes, I was being sarcastic. You made the solution sound so simple, which to me seemed a bit dismissive of the hours and hours that eddif and other gurus (not ot mention VWoA) have spent trying to solve this riddle.

I trust that the "gurus" on board here have already considered the "Norman" filter, and for whatever reason, have dismissed it. If not, they might post and thank you for the "heads-up."

Elfnmagik · Jan 31, 2012

DasTeknoViking said:
Keep a good eye on it, you might still have power train warranty left on it....

Had a 08 with just 56K and it was leaking so bad that it was leaking all over the exhaust manifolds causing a nice smoke show from under the hood... this was a trade in at work that I was certifying for resale at the dealership I wrench at.

Had an '01 Outback. Lost a head gasket at 56k.

VWBeamer · Jan 31, 2012

This, seriously. The OP is more or less saying that we are all idiots for keeping our cars beyond the warranty.

JM Popaleetus said:
These fear-mongering threads are getting old.

Seriously, does anyone really care anymore? I'd personally prefer that this forum stay on-topic; I don't care if you traded in your car for something else. If it's not a TDI, it doesn't belong here.

DasTeknoViking · Jan 31, 2012

I do not think he's calling anyone an idiot. I don't blame him for worrying.

Stuff does tend to happen, and I don't wish anyone bad things. I too hope VW fixes this issue or the fuel companies make better quality fuel. I would love a CR so I could mod the hell out of it. But with even the small handful of cars having issues I don't want to take the chance.

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

VWBeamer said:
This, seriously. The OP is more or less saying that we are all idiots for keeping our cars beyond the warranty.

What planet do you live on? Or, are you a democrat?

I made a choice based on information gleaned from reading the various posts regarding the HPFP issue on the CR cars, I decided to let the car go so as not to set myself up for possible expensive future repairs no matter how small/large the percentages are for failure.

"I" am choosing to sit on the side lines for a while until VW/Bosch gets it right.

How you get that I'm saying everyone is an idiot for keeping their cars beyond the warranty is idiocy, grow up.

DeliveryValve · Jan 31, 2012

Cali-Wagen said:
...
Just want to throw my 0.02$ in the ring!
The pressure post-pump is ~30,000psi +/-
So the filter structure would have to be capable of that?
And adding a filter in line would create a pressure drop that the pump would need to overcome, or loose flow....

My understanding is the fuel pressures are about 26,000 psi. As amthatiam stated the norman filter should be capable of handling that and will not cause a pressure drop.

tdiatlast said:
..
I trust that the "gurus" on board here have already considered the "Norman" filter, and for whatever reason, have dismissed it. If not, they might post and thank you for the "heads-up."

This filter is basically a band-aid. The real fix is to better the design of the pump itself.

amthatiam said:
...Or, are you a democrat?
...

I take exception to this comment, why bring politics into this.

.

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

tdiatlast said:
No, I'm not a guru, nor do I pretend to be.
Yes, I was being sarcastic. You made the solution sound so simple, which to me seemed a bit dismissive of the hours and hours that eddif and other gurus (not ot mention VWoA) have spent trying to solve this riddle.

I trust that the "gurus" on board here have already considered the "Norman" filter, and for whatever reason, have dismissed it. If not, they might post and thank you for the "heads-up."

It is not that complicated for a company like VW to incorporate a filter in the place that I suggested, I firmly believe that it was an oversight by the engineers who did not foresee Bosch fuel pumps failing.

The first place contaminants can be introduced into the system is the fuel tank, the fuel has to go through three pumps than the injection system and then it gets filtered!? that's allot of expensive equipment to leave unprotected from water and dirt let alone lack of lubrication.

Blindly defending VW or gurus makes no sense to me when their is a solution, perhaps the gurus/VW were not aware of this filter and will take a look at the possibility of incorporating it into one of these cars.

VW/Bosch is covering their butt due to the number of cars affected and the cost of such a repair if it was to done retroactive.

Dan

amthatiam · Jan 31, 2012

DeliveryValve said:
My understanding is the fuel pressures are about 26,000 psi. As amthatiam stated the norman filter should be capable of handling that and will not cause a pressure drop.

This filter is basically a band-aid. The real fix is to better the design of the pump itself.

I take exception to this comment, why bring politics into this.

.

I agree that the filter would be a band aid, better suited for aftermarket cost saving fix that would help people who don't want/can't afford the whole fuel system down the road when these cars have well over the 60,000 miles that VW covers. It would be a cheaper solution at that point.

I still think that VW, Ford, and any other car company that has a fuel system this expensive should protect the system at the beginning, in the tank, at the very least after the lift pump.

No apologies for other comments though I will refrain in future posts.

Dan

Traded my 09 JSW TDI for an Outback

Active member

Veteran Member

Active member

Veteran Member

Active member

TDIClub Enthusiast, HO5G Doyen & Zen Master

Active member

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

TDIClub Enthusiast, TDI Parts Ninja Vendor , w/Bus

Active member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Active member

Active member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Active member

Member

Active member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Active member

Veteran Member

Active member

Active member