This is getting OT but I'm sorry but that's just not correct. The federal EV credit is not a refundable tax credit, it can only reduce your tax liability. No one else pays a dime more just because someone got that tax credit.
Does anyone know what happens to Tesla batteries when they've expired? Also, we went into a Tesla 'dealership' at the local mall to look at their Electricity Used display. They had conveniently selected .16 cents per kWh as the price when determining costs to run a Tesla.5,000 posts on this issue and over a half million views in just over a week.
Elon Musk on Dieselgate: Elon Musk: Dieselgate Proves It's Time to Go Electric
My 1.8 TSI Golf can make 400-450 pretty easily in my normal driving mix, and on the highway @ 100 km/h can hit 800. My wife's TDI in similar driving makes 1000 km or 625 miles no sweat. It can break 700 miles on a long road trip at 100 km/h. My previous TDI ('11 Golf) record, in daily commuting, was 1194 km (just shy of 750 miles).
Not from the EV credit. It is of the 'non-refundable' type which means it cannot lower the tax liability below zero.
Thanks for posting that. I'm surprised no one else has commented. I must admit I had no idea that EVs would be worse in several respects to conventional fuel given how much pollution power generation creates. I've always heard the "battery" argument, but never had any numbers assigned to the impacts of the battery fab, but this shows it is the grid pollution that matters most.
Only if you regularly drive more than 300 miles in a single day.
Actually, I view it as progress. The EV hype needs to be exposed, esp. Tesla's.
Average US electrical rate is $0.10 per kWh. Model S uses 320Wh per mile (including charging losses). That is 3.2 cents per mile. Many states offer time of use pricing for EV so if you charge overnight when demand is lower the cost is half that (or less) which would be <2 cents per mile. At 2 cents per mile and current gas prices one would need 100mpg to have the same fuel costs.
I used to think that way until I got to drive one.
The avg power rate in the US has not been 10cents for quite some time. The avg is 13 cents and on the east coast approaches 20cents.
I read enough of the Tesla owner website to know that few people use TOU. The discount at night gets wiped out by the high rates during the day.
Well that is the thing about averages. If power in your area is above average then power somewhere else must be below average. Still use the 13 cents per kWh that is 4 cents per mile or 60mpg for equivalent fuel costs. Still shows you hardly need massively cheaper power. Even off peak pricing at half that would require an efficiency which is simply impossible to have similar fuel prices.
Yep. We're a 1-car family, and rented a second car for a few days this month because it made sense. WAY cheaper than having to own it, sort of like an RV for most people. Families who RV or back country car camp on a regular basis may be better off owning a vehicle for that, but it's not really germane to this discussion.
My in-laws reported a rise in power consumption from 290 Wh/mi (5000 mile average) to 340 when using the heater recently. Highway driving, 85S.
Many power companies offer a separate tariff for BEV. Like Dominion power in Virginia (and parts of NC and Maryland). Residential rate is ~$0.10 per kWh. BEV charging between 1am and 5am is $0.04 per kWh. That is becoming more common because it is a win-win for power companies. They can sell more power without building newer plants plus drive adoption of BEV and plugin hybrids.
Just to toss another anecdote into the mix: my coworker hasn't done nearly this level of detail in figuring out his fuel costs. He just feels good about the garage near our office fueling his Tesla for free. He also gives me the impression that, for the moment, many garages in our area (NE/NY/NJ) dole out free (subsidized) electricity for EVs. He plans his commutes so he doesn't fuel up at all at home. He is of course the sort of Tesla owner that really can't afford a Tesla.
Depends entirely on how much one drives.
Probably the only thread in a car forum where "displacement" has nothing at all to do with engines.
It's actually somewhat easy.... just not with an ICE
The arithmetic ends up being a trade-off between day and night-time consumption. Tesla owners tend to drive a lot, but they also tend to consume a lot during the day. LEAF owners on the other hand drive less, but consume less during the day.
As soon as they develop a battery pack with a 500 mile range you can count me in.
Statistically VW has caused ~4k premature deaths...
I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've wished for >200 miles of range in the last 3 years and 75k miles of road trips. When your drive way is your gas station and you can refuel for free while you eat lunch it's a whole new world. Those conveniences more than compensate for losing range that I rarely ever used.
Wow, how often do you drive 500+ miles in a day? I don't think I'd want to do that in any car.
It's not about capability, of course they could do it. The only consideration is the $$$. Or should I say the €€€.
Again I call BS on this! All CARB has done is tail pipe shift to rest of the west as they implement their so called greener power standards. Sure on the ground there the air is cleaner today, but at a real cost to the people who live in areas where most of CA's out of state producers.....
I agree we need to really expand street side charging. It's been proposed that one way for VW to redeem itself is a hard turn supporting EVs. Helping to fund that infrastructure would be part of it.
That is the national average owing the the extensive use of coal in other states.
