www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs

VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs This is a discussion about MKIII-A3/MkIII Jetta/Golf (<99.5) and B4 Passats (96,97) TDI's. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 28th, 2018, 12:22   #1
clyde
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: confluence, Snake/Clearwater
Default Water pump

Searched for water pump; no results.

Need a new pump with cast-iron impeller. Have a good housing; don't need another. Thought the pump part # was 037 121 005C, but AutohausAZ shows that part has a stamped sheet-metal impeller.

Anyone know of a good part # for a Mk3 water pump w cast-iron impeller?


Thanks!
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2018, 13:09   #2
Steve Addy
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Iowa
TDI(s): 97 Mk3
Default

The part number is good, 037121005C but impeller design will be up to the manufacturer. Some use stamped steel, some use cast but I'm not sure anyone does cast iron anymore. I have seen some with cast aluminum impeller and some with a synthetic impeller in the shape of the cast product.

Geba used to be the pump of choice a while back and based on the pics at ECStuning it looks like it still might use a cast impeller, but I would want to verify that with ECS before I purchased one if that's your preference.

Seems the last one I installed on the wagon was Geba but also I think I have a GMB in a box somewhere too, but I don't think that one has cast impeller.

Good luck

Steve
__________________
97 Jetta TDI, 90 B3V TDI, 92 MB 300SD

You didn't poison the coffee, did you? Not anymore than I usually do.
Steve Addy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2018, 13:51   #3
clyde
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: confluence, Snake/Clearwater
Default

Thanks, Steve!

With that part #(005C) ECS offers both cast and stamped impellers. A GEBA with cast and a Graf with stamped.

What's the performance record of the stamped impellers? Do they stay on?
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 28th, 2018, 16:24   #4
ToddA1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ 08002
Fuel Economy: Dismal
Default

I’ve had no issues with stamped steel impellers. I had a plastic cast Bosch pump, and the impeller started freewheeling.

-Todd
__________________
'96 B4V: Kerma tune and PP520s
'97 B4: Stock
Rabbit build
ToddA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2018, 05:49   #5
Abacus
That helpful B4 guy
 
Abacus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nobleboro, Maine
Fuel Economy: And the miles just keep ticking away
Default

I’ve had two stamped impellers (Graf) fail early and a dozen more that we’re fine. I’ve also seen the cast ones fail, so nothing is immune. I refuse to install one with a non-metallic impeller. The Geba does have the cast impeller and the Hepu stamped. I just installed one of each not long ago.
__________________
'97 B4: 453,000 miles Malone 3, PP520's, Stage 2 cam, SBC3, ARP studs, 2 1/4" exhaust, 2.5" Cat, no mufflers or EGR.
'96 B4V: 356,000 miles Malone 2+, PP520's, 6 speed, 02J short shifter, E-Codes, G60 brakes, Evo plate, DMF, stainless exhaust, heated leathers, cold weather package
BUG*PWR 2013 Award Winner
Abacus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2018, 06:52   #6
Mongler98
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern MD
Fuel Economy: Race: 12mpg, Gandma:65mpg
Default

every stamped impeller i have ever used, i always have put a small tack weld on it, never had any issues.
Mongler98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2018, 11:42   #7
clyde
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: confluence, Snake/Clearwater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
every stamped impeller i have ever used, i always have put a small tack weld on it, never had any issues.

That's a good idea! Are the impellers stainless?
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2018, 18:17   #8
Mongler98
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern MD
Fuel Economy: Race: 12mpg, Gandma:65mpg
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clyde View Post
That's a good idea! Are the impellers stainless?
not that ive noticed, if it is, its defiantly not 304. it welds like any other steel sheet metal thats been galvanized. i have never noticed a burn off of the galvanized metal though or rusting on the welds as the pumps i do it to all live in a healthy antifreeze mix of whatever the car it goes into needs.
If i had to guess, its a cheep stainless plating thats on it. If i remember to, i will leave one that i take off and let it sit outside for a bit and see if it rusts.

I can say that the tack weld i do is very small, i basically just put 2 pencil eraser sized spot welds on it and file it flush and let the penetration of the weld do the work.
Mongler98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2018, 19:10   #9
Abacus
That helpful B4 guy
 
Abacus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nobleboro, Maine
Fuel Economy: And the miles just keep ticking away
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clyde View Post
That's a good idea! Are the impellers stainless?
Not really since it'll throw off the impeller being balanced.
__________________
'97 B4: 453,000 miles Malone 3, PP520's, Stage 2 cam, SBC3, ARP studs, 2 1/4" exhaust, 2.5" Cat, no mufflers or EGR.
'96 B4V: 356,000 miles Malone 2+, PP520's, 6 speed, 02J short shifter, E-Codes, G60 brakes, Evo plate, DMF, stainless exhaust, heated leathers, cold weather package
BUG*PWR 2013 Award Winner
Abacus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2018, 19:42   #10
clyde
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: confluence, Snake/Clearwater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abacus View Post
Not really since it'll throw off the impeller being balanced.

Of course you're right, Abacus, the rotating mass will change the balance of the rotating parts.

It's a crapshoot, though, whether the direction of change would be negative or positive. The rotating mass is probably not very close to being balanced to begin with…

The two tiny spots of weld are so close to the center of rotation and the mass of those welds is insignificant compared to mass of the hub and the pulley. Would the tiny change even be noticeable without using very sensitive scientific instruments?

Last edited by clyde; October 31st, 2018 at 06:52.
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2018, 21:01   #11
Abacus
That helpful B4 guy
 
Abacus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nobleboro, Maine
Fuel Economy: And the miles just keep ticking away
Default

Give it a try and let us know how it goes.
__________________
'97 B4: 453,000 miles Malone 3, PP520's, Stage 2 cam, SBC3, ARP studs, 2 1/4" exhaust, 2.5" Cat, no mufflers or EGR.
'96 B4V: 356,000 miles Malone 2+, PP520's, 6 speed, 02J short shifter, E-Codes, G60 brakes, Evo plate, DMF, stainless exhaust, heated leathers, cold weather package
BUG*PWR 2013 Award Winner
Abacus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29th, 2018, 21:56   #12
KLXD
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lompoc, CA
Default

I've never noticed any balancing holes or grind marks on a water pump impeller.
__________________
Saying no to gas for 25 years:

Current: ’02 Jetta, Auto; ’98 Jetta, 5 Spd; ’98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; ’84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): ’85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: ’85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; ’81 Rabbit, 1.6; ’80 Dasher, 1.5; ’79 Rabbit, 1.5
KLXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2018, 06:36   #13
Mongler98
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern MD
Fuel Economy: Race: 12mpg, Gandma:65mpg
Default

TOP KEK

these pumps spin (depending on the car) at about 1/4 the speed of the crank RPM. Balance this small make NO difference as long as that difference is within say (15 grams) i have no clue as to how much but you get the point.
the cast ones might be balanced enough from casting marks ect but never have i ever seen any marks to indicate that the pump was balanced at all.
Granted i have not done a water pump on every make and model car out there so i can only speak on what i have worked on. I can also say that the only reason i did the welding thing was when it was clearly a slip fit, i have seen pumps come in with the impeller being metal but where it connects to the shaft there is a seam where it slips over as in, NOT a press fit but rater a glue fit. I have seen this on mostly Chevy and GM sh!t boxes.
Maybe it the balancing issue is why so many fail?
All i know is that i have never had a failure of a impeller coming off on these and i cant report any higher than normal failure rate.

Last edited by Abacus; October 31st, 2018 at 19:56.
Mongler98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2018, 08:36   #14
garciapiano
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Southern California
Default

I bought my water pump kit from ECS and it came with a GEBA pump. For what it’s worth, I say don’t sweat the pump - sweat the gasket that seals it to the pump housing. The rubber/metal gasket is what you want. Throw out the flimsy paper one that comes with the pump.
garciapiano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2018, 08:55   #15
KLXD
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lompoc, CA
Default

I replaced the pump on my '98 for the first time with the last timing belt. Well over 300k.

Really hurt to toss the perfectly good original plastic (I think) pump for a crappy looking cast. Looked like it had 2/3 the flow path of the original.
__________________
Saying no to gas for 25 years:

Current: ’02 Jetta, Auto; ’98 Jetta, 5 Spd; ’98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; ’84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): ’85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: ’85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; ’81 Rabbit, 1.6; ’80 Dasher, 1.5; ’79 Rabbit, 1.5
KLXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When to replace water pump and fuel pump? halfbytecode TDI 101 25 December 23rd, 2017 10:08
water vs plastic water pump video leicaman TDI 101 56 July 15th, 2016 11:44
Water Pump/Timing Pump replacement... manoj77@icloud.com VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 32 August 20th, 2015 10:05
water pump greenskeeper TDI 101 0 April 29th, 2013 14:28
Stretch Bolts for water pump/ water pump change. Vinyl_Addict TDI 101 7 July 11th, 2006 09:11


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.19295 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 127.10 Kb. compressed to 106.03 Kb. by saving 21.07 Kb. (16.57%)]