EuroVan 1Z Upgrades

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and wanted to get some opinions on power upgrades. I'm swapping a 1Z from a 97 B4 Passat into my 2002 EuroVan. I was comfortable with the 201hp and 181ft lbs the 24v VR was putting through the automatic and it was more than plenty.

The upgrades I am considering so far are:

-K03/K04 Hybrid Turbo
-PD150 Intake
-P&P Head
-Agressive Cam (most likey from Kerma)
-Head Studs
-New Crank Sprocket (not a power upgrade per se, but known to fail)
-Bigger Injectors

I don't have a power goal, but I'd like to make the van driveable. I hear ALH pistons are beefier than the 1Zs. Would that be best for my setup? I'd like to avoid touching the bottom end at all costs as the engine seems relatively healthy as-is and only has 174k miles on it. An 11mm pump may also be in my future. All of these upgrades may come later after the engine is already installed, but I'd like to be set up for them.

The Passat weighs ~3000lbs. The EuroVan weighs ~4500lbs.

In a nutshell, I'm looking for a semi-powerful setup with as little stress on the engine as possible. I am willing to sacrifice a lot of power for long term reliability gains. (I.E. Not pulled over on the highway with smoke billowing out of the hood and a hole through a piston)

(Apologies for my basic TDI knowledge. New to diesels.)

Cam will definitely help with EGTs a bit. Mark runs an AHU in his Eurovan with a k03/k04 and it works great. These vans are lighter than that, know the VR autos are around 2 tons. I had Mark's on a scale awhile ago doing a dump run and it was well under 2000kg but I can't find the #, it's a pop top. P&P head and head studs won't be needed at a reasonable power level, money would be better spent on brakes/suspension/ battery bank etc.

This motor will always be stressed with the extra weight, I regularly see EGTs in the 1200+ range just merging on on ramps and such. Cranking the boost and fuel to the max will not help either. Power curve is much different on these motors so it will feel faster than the VR during normal operation, best to keep fueling on the light side with a solid drivetrain. 18 PSI on that turbo with 216s and a stage 2 cam should do just fine. You'll want an EGT, boost and coolant gauge. Scangauge 2 + egt gauge isn't a bad option. If you want it to be reliable in a heavy duty application, do not try to push the envelop like people do in cars. You're moving 50% more weigh loaded up and those coal rolling tunes people are running to try to cram the last 10% out of a motor are not suitable for this application. Expect more around 110-120WHP/200lb-ft reliably.

Coming from a man with first-hand knowledge and experience with the exact application you are planning, I would take Owain at his word.

Why would you want to put a cam and lose low-end torque on a 4500# van??

Owain, thank you so much for the detailed reply. That is the power I was expecting to make.

So I can reliably get away with that kind of power without any bottom end/top end work? That's awesome news. I'm definitely going to have gauges for EGT, boost, oil pressure (mechanical), and coolant.

So I guess I'm down to:

-K03/K04
-216 nozzles
-Stage 2 cam

If I'm not P&P the head, I assume a PD150 intake won't do much for me, correct?

And the 11mm pump won't do much for me either?

What kind of tune would I be looking at with this setup (if any)?

TDIMeister: I assume for more top end power.

Again, thanks so much for the response.

This is what I would do.
Base engine stock
Head stock
Cam stock
Turbo from this milennia and ditch that k03 stuff. GTB series VNT would be my choise. 1756vk or 2056vl. Both spool just as good as the stock junk but flow enough for all the power you seem to desire. And because its much more efficient you don't need to do additional mods to head or cams.
And nozzles. I just don't understand why anyone would use those tiny and wimpy nozzles on anything other than SDI without additional mapping. It can be mapped with much larger injectors without smoke and with faster injection duration so less EGT. Race 520 is smalest I would use but the one size smaler could also be enough for your needs.

I have tuned few T3 vans with TDI conversions and different mechanical setups. Some with stock based hybrids and some with K16 or HE221. Personally I would use VNT over any of those if it were my car/van.

Lähetetty minun Moto G (4) laitteesta Tapatalkilla

I'd like to avoid going VNT due to long term reliability. I don't want to over complicate it. Just an old fashioned internally wastegated turbo.

Don't the VNTs need an ALH ECU to run them? And aren't the vanes known to stick due to carbon buildup?

What are the benefits of VNT over the K03/04 hybrid?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jackjtr said:

I'd like to avoid going VNT due to long term reliability. I don't want to over complicate it. Just an old fashioned internally wastegated turbo.

Don't the VNTs need an ALH ECU to run them? And aren't the vanes known to stick due to carbon buildup?

What are the benefits of VNT over the K03/04 hybrid?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

let us count the ways.

+++ to what hatemi said.

My VNT-equipped car is not complaining coming to 20 years and 200k miles...

Yes if it's tuned right it will not stick unless there is a fault somewhere. Modern VNTs are much better in that regard too. I have not seen one GTB series charger with vanes stuck unless it has eaten coolant or otherwise melted.
The electrical part is also simple. If your original ECU is with fully aluminum casing then all you need to do is put a software from AFN engine in there, change the N75 solenoid for AFN or early ALH version, and do the vacum lines for the solenoid correctky and you are done.

Lähetetty minun Moto G (4) laitteesta Tapatalkilla

Great. I'll definitely consider the VNT in that case.

I see the VNT17 PLUS as an option on Kerma. That will bolt onto the 1Z, correct?

Before I completely ditch the idea of a K03/K04, what would be the reason for me to go through the extra hassle of setting up VNT operation when I can get a cheaper turbo that bolts right on? Sorry to keep pushing back on a VNT, but I'd like to hear a reason to go with VNT over it. I'm looking for ~110-120hp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just need to swap in a Mk4 N75 and have the tune set accordingly, along with making sure you have enough clearance for whatever you plan to run. Mark runs oldschool turbos on both the mk3/eurovan for simplicity's sake, by no means slow or laggy and work fine. You can buy a normal VNT17 for around 800 bucks, then run it at 22-24 and have plenty of power. 210whp at 25 psi might be a bit optimistic. 216 section nozzles on a 10mm with maxed out fueling on a vnt17 puts down more around 140-150whp and there's maybe 15whp left with aggressive fueling (which you won't want due to the heavier load and adventurous driving). Might also consider the VNT15 for better low end response and because if you're ever broken down and in a jam, you're more likely to find one at a wrecker or a used one locally. It's more restrictive and that will result in slightly higher EGTs. Both the VNT15 and 17 are very tough turbos and built well.

I've driven a fully built syncro T3 camper with a BEW 17/22 setup on an aggressive 26 PSI tune that came to us to correct the previous tuners work. It did not need nearly that much power and was a little sketchy, plus those transmissions aren't cheap. We ultimately de-tuned it and got it running more reliably, 160HP/280lb-ft is plenty in one of these. Right now the eurovan is probably at 100/200 at altitude @ 15 psi, runs great and holds highway speeds up mountains.

Past 22 PSI you'll also need to have a map sensor soldered into the ECU since the stock one is 2.5 bar (or wire an external one). I would do this if going past a VNT15 or k03/k04 since you won't be able to measure boost spikes in logs if you're maxing the sensor out in the first place, although a boost gauge is always best. Running a turbo with veins is by no means unreliable, but it's one more thing to deal with. There's always going to be a bigger and better turbo but what you need and what fits your application might be a different story. Variable geometry turbos are superior in just about every way and there's no arguing that, almost all modern diesels come with them. You can get a fairly large turbo to spool like a smaller one while providing plenty of top end. If you're dumping a lot of money into the van and plan on doing suspension, brakes, drivetrain etc then a vnt17 or 1756 for ~180-200bhp would work great. Just make sure the rest of the vehicle is up to the task.

Back in 2010

AThreeTdi said:

I ran the k03/k04 hybrid for 40k miles at 20-21 psi with PP764's and the car was strong, dyno'ed 149hp/306ftlbs and best 1/4 was 14.71.. Wasn't to much smoke either and here is a video to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nphDmums9EA&feature=related

Click to expand...

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=274338

I took over Joe's equipment in the b4 when he parted it. Do I think the $800 turbo is worth the 10hp? Nope. We tuned it multiple times, and it just doesn't perform that much better than the stock turbo. It's small.

So I moved to the VNT conversion and it was a huge difference. Obviously the turbo was more laggy from idle (get 2056v) but the power difference was huge. HUGE. The power and torque shifted to the right more, but that just meant adjusting my revs to not go WOT at idle.

In the eurovan, your gearing will want to rev more anyways won't it?

Then when that ****e used trash turbo killed my engine, I moved to the gtb2056vk. Another huge gain to move from old tech to the newest one (at the time).

Bottom line is this.

Required whichever setup you choose.
$500 injectors
$400 tune (or whatever they go for now)

$800 k03/k04turbo
+10 hp +10 torque vs a maxed out k03

(Someone will mention that gt2052 wastegsted turbo, but that thing is still slow dyno/logs, and old tech. If you want to save pennies go ahead, but bleh not a fan)

Or depending on how resourceful you are and if you are doing the work
$1200-$1800 GTB1756VK turbo or GTC1549VZ Turbo on an adapter ,BHW/AFN manifold, ECU VNT conversion , ALH map sensor bung added, downpipe,
intercooler and turbo inlet pipe. Tune it correctly and there's no need for internals. $$$ saved.
+30-80hp +50-100 torque vs a maxed out k03/k04

If you are swapping an engine, I'm sure making a downpipe and a couple aluminum pipes isn't a big deal for you right? You don't have to utilize all that power, but it gives you room instead of trying to work that k03/k04 as hard as you can. These newer turbos can handle a lot, no good reason to worry about the VNT or vanes. I'd never go used on a turbo ever again but that's your choice. You don't have to build it with all the whistles and ****e I did, I just wanted to spend all my $$$$.

If you are looking to spend some money, go VNT. No one I know who converted to VNT has regretted it. These are daily driver builds too.

If you wanna go on the cheap, keep it simple, get a tune and nozzles, the k03/k04 isn't worth it.

Great summary there. I forgot about the GTC1749VZ. There have been a couple of installations on 1Z/AHUs and the owners have been nothing but absolutely delighted. With the Eurovan's weight and need to have good get-up-and-go from a standstill, I would go with a new-generation VNT and nothing bigger than a 52mm compressor for surge margin.

Thanks so much for that detailed reply. Now that I think about it, investing ~$800 for 10hp seems dumb.

Considering the engine will be canted forward in the van, turbo swaps should not be a big deal if and when I decide to upgrade.

Maybe I'll just go with injectors and a tune for now, and see what the stock turbo can do for me. Not trying to build a race car here. Simple reliable daily driver is my goal, I just want to avoid the cold sweats when I have to accelerate in an emergency situation.

I have actually never driven a TDI vehicle before, and the donor Passat I have has two blown CVs, so I have no idea what these things feel like.

And I'll be using a TDI transmission courtesy of Dutch Auto Parts so the gearing will be lower I believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you're already getting a different transmission, get a 6-speed with ratios matched to the AXG/AHY engine code.

Good call on enjoying the engine with the stock turbo first. Engine swaps always have more unexpected issues and expenses, so it's wise to deal with as few additional variables as possible on the first go.

TDIMeister said:

If you're already getting a different transmission, get a 6-speed with ratios matched to the AXG/AHY engine code.

Good call on enjoying the engine with the stock turbo first. Engine swaps always have more unexpected issues and expenses, so it's wise to deal with as few additional variables as possible on the first go.

Click to expand...

wisely spoken... introducing the least amount of variables possible is always the best approach

Hi Jack welcome to the TDI EV world.
I thought I'd weigh in with my build, maybe it will help.
I put a mildly modified ahu tdi in my 1995 EVC. I am running a VNT-15 turbo (it bolts right up) with the ahu n75 valve. stock 10mm pump, dsla 1019 (.216) Bosch injectors, and a 2.5" fmic setup. the tune is a modified AFN with egr delete. i'm running a 2.5" exhaust with a cat and no muffler, but i still have to replace my downpipe, its still ~ 2.0" I have Boost, Oil pressure and EGT instrumentation, which is a must.
other than that the motor is bone stock. Make sure your intermediate shaft bearings are not too worn and your oil pressure (should ) be fine.
the turbo was a freebie so i went with the -15 when i originally wanted the VNT-17, i'll be upgrading in the future.
Driving the van isn't going to be like your VR6, but its still acceptable what you lose in performance you gain in MPG, transmission longevity and Bragging rights. The Conversion was well worth the effort and after 9000+ miles i'd say it was a success. mileage is ok at 25mpg combined, but i have a heavy foot and its regularly driven to the mountains where the gas tank mimics a sieve.

goose737700 said:

Hi Jack welcome to the TDI EV world.

I thought I'd weigh in with my build, maybe it will help.

I put a mildly modified ahu tdi in my 1995 EVC. I am running a VNT-15 turbo (it bolts right up) with the ahu n75 valve. stock 10mm pump, dsla 1019 (.216) Bosch injectors, and a 2.5" fmic setup. the tune is a modified AFN with egr delete. i'm running a 2.5" exhaust with a cat and no muffler, but i still have to replace my downpipe, its still ~ 2.0" I have Boost, Oil pressure and EGT instrumentation, which is a must.

other than that the motor is bone stock. Make sure your intermediate shaft bearings are not too worn and your oil pressure (should ) be fine.

the turbo was a freebie so i went with the -15 when i originally wanted the VNT-17, i'll be upgrading in the future.

Driving the van isn't going to be like your VR6, but its still acceptable what you lose in performance you gain in MPG, transmission longevity and Bragging rights. The Conversion was well worth the effort and after 9000+ miles i'd say it was a success. mileage is ok at 25mpg combined, but i have a heavy foot and its regularly driven to the mountains where the gas tank mimics a sieve.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed reply. That sounds like a pretty good list of mods for me.

I think I'll install the engine in stock form and slowly bolt stuff on, one mod at a time. I'd like to see what the engine feels like as my donor car doesn't drive.

Right now I'm more worried about the little things like air conditioning, pedal potentiometer mounting, and all the other fun stuff that goes along with a swap like this.

I'm planning on video logging the build online.

I been following this thread, but it gets a bit technical for me, I just completed my AHU conversion on my T4 Caravelle drives great no issues been running solid for around 3000 miles.

I too want a power upgrade.. but get confused over which nozzle appears to be few options for .216 etc. also curious on ko3

If I buy
.216 Nozzles
KO3 Turbo
and a REMAP what BHP should I expect and if I leave the turbo standard just do nozzles and remap what should i be expecting .

Any help be great .. FYI - seen a few post using the "WHP" don't even know what that means

whp = wheel horse power. ~130/250 to the crank would be reasonable on a k03.

Owain@malonetuning said:

whp = wheel horse power. ~130/250 to the crank would be reasonable on a k03.

Click to expand...

Thanks Owain

130 is the BHP 250 is torque ?
What do you think I would get with a standard turbo ?

I should mention I have a FMIC if that makes any difference

Here's an old dyno comparison of the two from RC, hybrid isn't a ton bigger but imagine there's room for more of a margin there. K03 was stock, k03/k04 hybrid is an upgrade. Power is essentially down to turbine flow and fuel supply, long as air and fuel temps are kept under control.

Owain@malonetuning said:

Here's an old dyno comparison of the two from RC, hybrid isn't a ton bigger but imagine there's room for more of a margin there. K03 was stock, k03/k04 hybrid is an upgrade. Power is essentially down to turbine flow and fuel supply, long as air and fuel temps are kept under control.

Click to expand...

Thats is a huge difference quite impressive. So if I went KO3/KO4 hybrid im guessing it is not a straight forward as just bolt the turbo on, fit nozzles, fmic and get a remap ?

Does this involve additional pipework, change of ECU etc ?

It's a plug and play turbo and about as straight forward as it gets for modifications. Nozzles, turbo, FMIC, remap and you're good to go. Anything past 22 PSI requires soldering a 3 bar map sensor into the ECU. VNT15 with a MK4 N75 is also a good option, they can be regularly found used in junk yards/on forums for cheap. If I was paying that kind of money for a turbo I'd have a hard time not choosing something a little bigger like the 2052 hybrid or something with veins. Both Mark's Eurovan and mk3 golf run k03/k04s and work great.