Engine Stalled, Now Won't Start. Please Help...

I was on my way home from work when my engine stalled as I was going up a hill. I pulled over and my car would not re-start. So I had it towed home and it has not started since it died on that hill.

I'm new to TDI Club and new to forums in general, so I hope I'm posting this in the correct area...

Here are my thoughts on what may have gone wrong:

- Relay 109 - I checked this and I have the newer Gray one. And it looks fine to me. I'm not sure how to tell if it is damaged or not. Is there a way to check it or test it?

- Fuel pump(s) - I have not looked into this yet. I'm not really sure how to. I haven't been able to find very much info yet about the fuel pumps or how to replace them.

- Bad fuel - I've heard that sometimes it is possible to get a "bad batch of fuel"... Is that true? Could that be the problem? I had just filled up the tank earlier that day and I had only driven 15 miles since filling up when it stalled out. Would it be possible that it took about 15 miles to get the new "bad" fuel through the fuel lines and up to the engine? How can I check this? Do I need to drain the tank somehow? Or can I by-pass the tank with fresh fuel to see if it will start? I'm not sure how to purge all of the fuel out of the system.

The car still turns over just fine. My starter cranks and cranks, no problem, but the engine isn't even trying to start.

Please help. I'm not really sure what to do next...

Might wanna mention the specs on your car? Year? Engine?

In the mean time put it in a heated garage to see if perhaps gelled fuel is your issue.

Oh... Yeah... Sorry.

It's a 2003 Jetta Wagon

And I pushed it into the garage as soon as I got it towed home. This happened almost a month ago now. And I tried again to start it yesterday while it was in my garage. Still nothing.

I'd look at the timing belt first. Then 109, fuel filter, fuel. There's some good posts on 109's you can search for.

If the 109 is bad, when you turn on the key, the glow plug light will not come on. if it it is ok, then the gp light will come on for a second or so, then go out.

I second checking the timing belt. Unsnap the plastic cover over the timing belt on the passenger side, remove it and check for belt tension (should be tight) and missing teeth. have someone crank over engine in spurts while you check for teeth missing.

Also, how long since fuel filter was replaced? You PNW guys get bio and depending on the blend the filter can clog slam up in short order.

Also, for future reference, if your car randomly dies like this your first reaction should not be to try to start the car.

Whatever caused it to fail could do more damage when you try to start it. this is especially true in the case of a failed timing belt.

A TDI that quits about 15 minutes after fueling? A quart or so of fuel in the filter and fuel lines and Injector Pump...1 quart=15 minutes??

Do you get a receipt for the fuel? Does it say "unleaded" on it?

I'm sure someday I'll do it, too...A friend has filled with regular 3 times with his diesel Ford truck...

Could be water from your fuel source also, or as described above, a clogged fuel filter...

Rxfire said:

A TDI that quits about 15 minutes after fueling?

Click to expand...

No... It wasn't 15 minutes... It was 15 miles. The engine had probably been running about 25 - 30 minutes or so when it stalled out.

Ski in NC said:

If the 109 is bad, when you turn on the key, the glow plug light will not come on. if it it is ok, then the gp light will come on for a second or so, then go out.

Also, how long since fuel filter was replaced?

Click to expand...

My glow plugs are still coming on for a second or two, then turning off... So I don't think it's the 109.

I think I'm going to pull the fuel filter next and give that a look. I've owned the car for a little over a year, and I bought it from a used car lot... So I have no idea if or when the fuel filter has ever been replaced.

Ski in NC said:

I second checking the timing belt. Unsnap the plastic cover over the timing belt on the passenger side, remove it and check for belt tension (should be tight) and missing teeth. have someone crank over engine in spurts while you check for teeth missing.

Click to expand...

OK... I just had my wife sitting in the car and cranking it over in spurts while I was looking at the timing belt. And my timing belt didn't move at all when she cranked it over... So how screwed am I??? I didn't see any teeth missing, and it seemed pretty tight (at least to my fingers when I pushed and pulled on it)...

So I thought that it must have snapped at the lower end that I can't see... But I couldn't slide the belt off or pull it out of there either. Obviously something is wrong with it though.

I also thought that I read somewhere that these are "Interference Engines"... So that means I probably have bent some valves too, right? So again... How screwed am I??? Is this something that I can try to fix myself by doing a timing belt replacement? Or do I need to now take it in somewhere to do a whole engine re-build?

What do I do next?

OK... I just had my wife sitting in the car and cranking it over in spurts while I was looking at the timing belt. And my timing belt didn't move at all when she cranked it over.

Click to expand...

Erhm, post #6 specifically said not to do this...

If belt is not moving, valves have crashed against the pistons. Usually this damages the valves and cam and cam followers, but the rest of the engine usually is ok. So head has to come off, get repaired, then back on with a new timing belt kit.

tow it to puter's house!

You can't see any sheared teeth because the sheared teeth are all down around the crank pulley.

Its kind of a funny thing that when I do a head R&R I don't even get to see the old belt in its entirety until after I've bolted the repaired head up and I"m putting on the new timing belt.

"Yep, it was broken" (scooping the little pile of teeth out of the crank seal carrier)

to answer your question less colloquially; a "rebuild" is not necessary. You're looking at about $1000-1300 in parts/machine work to repair it.

You will need to remove the head (make note of the number of purely round holes on your old gasket before chucking it) and take it to a machinist. There is probably a very skilled, well qualified one near you (there are probably dozens of such individuals actually). They will charge you around $300 to install new valves, valve guides, and seals in your head (they will also clean it and make it shiny).

Then you have to assess weather the bottom end sustained any damage. Outside of obviously destroyed pistons, this can sometimes be difficult. Here are some key search terms: Deck height, piston protrusion

clean the top of the block well and install the fresh head with a new head gasket, new head bolts and a new timing belt kit.

Should I keep going or are you just going to tow it to puter?

runonbeer said:

Should I keep going or are you just going to tow it to puter?

Click to expand...

If anyone does this, I'm throwing something at you

Maybe my reaction was strong, but it's a bit frustrating to say "hey, don't do this...you will cause more damage" and then have someone go and do exactly what you said not to do.

Just for good measure though:

OP - in the future, if your car just dies, don't try to start it. if you want to check the timing belt, use a mirror and flash light, don't try to start it. If you have this sort of problem, always LOOK at the TB _before_ you turn the engine over again or you will just be damaging your car further.


Oh, and I _can_ recommend an excellent mechanic. I recommend you take your car to Matthew_S. He has a shop out in Redmond and owns a very nice TDI. He is excellent and has worked on my car in the past. Oh, and he's more patient than me too

Big Jimmy said:

(snip) - Will I need any special tools to remove the head or the cam or valves?
- Do I need to break it all down myself? Or does the cam, valves, and head all come out as one unit that I could then take somewhere to be cleaned and inspected?
- Is there anything else I should take a look at or replace now while it's all apart?

Click to expand...

1) The back side of the head is pretty close to the body cowl/hood closure area (not sure exactly what to call it but you know what I mean) so some people have short wrenches/sockets/hex-Torx drivers to get in there but generally, no you don't absolutely need special tools to remove the head. As Robbie says, keep the head gasket -- the number of holes indicates the thickness of it and you'll want to replace it with one exactly like it. What you will need is the special tool set to align the cam, crank, and injection pump when you're putting the timing belt system back together; also VAG-Com or VCDS to check the timing so that it can be set properly. Also, it's hard to get the oil tube to the turbo off without damaging it; be really careful with it. Same goes with vacuum lines - number them with a piece of tape and a "sharpie" and take a digital photo.

2) As Robbie says, the head has to be inspected and rebuilt by someone who knows what he's doing. You're almost certain (99%+) to have damaged valves and lifters and it's likely that valve guide are damaged, too. You can look in the Yellow Pages and try to find a rebuilder near you -- the problem with this is that some shops that are very good at rebuilding Ford Grand Marquis cylinder heads will try to rebuild your head like they'd rebuild a Grand Marquis head. A *certain* thing is to remove the head and ship it to "Frank06" - he's in the Mid-West so you're talking UPS or Fed-Ex but it is SO worth it; he knows everything about these heads and how to fix them. Look him up under the "Private Messages" and send him a message. He'll tell you what to do.

3) As Robbie says, do a "search" for "piston protrusion" and "deck height". Sometimes, when the pistons hit the valves, it bends the pistons and/or the rods -- the pistons should stick up a very small (and equal amount) from the head gasket surface. If they are equal and at spec, it means your "bottom end" is undamaged. The good news is that this kind of damage happens in a small %-age of cases but it *can* happen and you want to be sure to check it.

__. Finally, get a copy of the "A4 Timing Belt Video" from this website and follow its instructions EXACTLY. These engines are critical on their timing belt systems; if they're not repaired properly, they'll fail again and the resulting damage usually completely wrecks the engine.

__. And, my advice is if you want to do the majority of the work yourself, get the head rebuilt and reinstall it according to the workshop manual and tow your car to a "guru" for him to do a final check and install the timing belt system. It will cost you his labor but it will save you the cost of the timing tools for sure and save your engine possibly. And be sure that a "deluxe 100K timing belt kit" is installed on your car -- some gurus will ask you to buy the kit from a TDIClub vendor; others may want you to have them order it -- check with the guy who is installing it.

__. I'm going to guess that when you see the video, you're going to say to yourself, "I'm going to let somebody else do this" -- that will probably be wise. It's not like working on a dirt bike. I worked in the vehicle business for my whole working life before I retired and I've paid a "guru" to replace my timing belt systems every time it's been needed on my cars.

__. Good luck!

Do you need special tools? Yes lots of them. Not only the really really special ones that only do one thing (lock the cam/pump etc) but also ones that are needed to reach certain bolts in certain areas. It could be said that these types of tools "make the job easy" it could also be said, by me that they "make the job possible"

Now, I could spend about an hour typing up a list of these tools and where they are needed, but then everyone in the world would know all my secrets.

Here are a few:

5mm long reach ball end socket. Gotta have it. valve cover, EGR cooler, oil pan (not exactly applicable in this case)

6mm long ball end socket. gotta have it. EGR flex pipe bolts from cooler to valve. vacuum reservoir.

3/8" flex head long handle ratchet. intake and exhaust manifolds.

16mm Deep socket. horizontal mount bolts. You can get an air ratchet and a torque wrench on these.

12mm triple square bit for the big head bolts.

Last but not least a pair of these cable spring clamp pliers. They're only $40 and they're lifetime warranty. Waaay better than the Astro-pneumatics that are comparable in price.

Get some brake cleaner and make sure you have a good shop vac for sucking coolant and debris out of the cylinders once you get the head off.

You'll find with a project like this, this club will become a very supportive resource as everyone huddles around their computers, wishing they were tearing down their car

I'll second the Matthew_S recommendation. I've been reading his posts for a long time and have never disagreed with any of them.

runonbeer said:

I'll second the Matthew_S recommendation. I've been reading his posts for a long time and have never disagreed with any of them.

Click to expand...

I bring my car to him whenever a job scares me too much to do myself (Clutch and TB...so far)

He'll be doing my next TB and cam too. I'll probably also end up calling him at some time between now and then to ask advice on one thing or another, he's always helpful but I always feel bad for doing it and try to avoid it.

Once you remove the large timing belt roller and one head bolt, you can make one of these to get the injectors out:



You'll also need an appropriate diameter length of round stock, a nut to thread onto the end and an M14 x 1.5 nut to thread onto the injectors. I'm not too sure on the thread pitch of that nut. It could be 1.25 also. Can't remember exactly now.

pretty tough to get the injectors out without a slide hammer.

OK... I've done a lot of research and thinking about this whole job now... And I am still going to do it myself. Or at least start it myself and if I come to something I can't do then I'll tow it somewhere and let someone else finish the job.

So... Where should I order parts from? Who's good? World Impex? Diesel Geek? Does anybody have any suggestions?

I know that I need to get the head gasket with the same number of holes as the old gasket... But how do you order that? I don't see that specifically called out anywhere on the world impex site. It just says "Head Gasket."

I do have the Bentley Service Manual now... Which has already been very helpful to read through.

So I think I need:
- Head gasket set
- Intake manifold gasket set
- ALH deluxe timing belt kit
- Timing belt tool kit (from Diesel Geek, I guess, right?)
- Craftsman cable operated hose clamp pliers

Is that it? What else will I need to order right away? And which website should I order this stuff from?


P.S. And thanks everybody for all of your help so far...

This thread has been continued in a new thread... If you would like to add to this thread, please see the new thread using this link:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=271468

Thanks!