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Old January 12th, 2019, 12:51   #1
climbtheplanet
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Default Anyone Use High Temp Anti Seize on Intake/Exhaust Manifold Fasteners?

Is using a high temp anti-seize on the exhaust manifold/turbo lugs, intake bolts and the egr cooler bolts a good or bad idea? Does anti seize prevent fasteners from staying torqued to proper specs?


Yesterday I removed my intake for the second time on this car, and I found it way harder than the first time due to sticky bolts, which I did torque correctly last install. I have had to replace 2 of the EGR cooler bolts due to them starting to strip, and I'm terrified I will strip something every time I start to crank on any of these 5 mm and 6 mm hex bolts. The thought of breaking an exhaust manifold post (even with a PB Blaster soak) also scares the poop out of me.


I'm cleaning my turbo but may have to get a new one sooner than later, so I'm wondering if using anti-sieze is OK in hopes everything will be smoother if I have to do this again?
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Old January 12th, 2019, 13:11   #2
eddieleephd
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Bad, antisieze is a lubricant and will cause the bolts to loosen.

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Old January 12th, 2019, 13:21   #3
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I'd use it.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 13:40   #4
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use it all the time
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Old January 12th, 2019, 14:31   #5
AndyBees
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If you break off one of the Intake bolts or round out the Allen-head, a nightmare will begin...

Use it... stop the knuckle skinning, twisting off bolts, rounding off heads, etc.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 15:15   #6
csstevej
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I use it all the time, never had an issue.
Any bolt which comes off my cars get some anti seize, including the lug nuts.
40,years of using the stuff and never had an issue.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 16:05   #7
eddieleephd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csstevej View Post
I use it all the time, never had an issue.
Any bolt which comes off my cars get some anti seize, including the lug nuts.
40,years of using the stuff and never had an issue.
Have you ever checked the torque on your wheels after a few thousand miles, or any other bolt?
Just because you have not noticed the bedtime effects doesn't mean they don't exist.
I used to use it on everything also, lug bolts over torqued at the tire shop and I had to drill them out. Axle bolts loosened up and I started hearing clicks and had to clean them up, then re-torque so the bolts didn't break.

Really it's a bad idea in certain area's and manifolds becoming loose causing a turbo to blow with no clue why, due to antisieze, seems oddly suspicious. Of course, the person with the blown turbo would never suspect this as the cause.

Yeah not good, trust me really.... But do what you will....

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Old January 12th, 2019, 16:20   #8
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anything into aluminum needs lube
I like anti-sieze and would use it on everything
sadly, I am lazy so the only stuff that actually gets it is high torque stuff like the crank bolt, sleeved suspension bolts and stuff into AL threads
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Old January 12th, 2019, 17:49   #9
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AARodriguez Corp. sells what they call BadAss Bolts. Tougher replacements for the IM bolts (not sure about the exhaust).
https://www.tunemyeuro.com/badass-bo...onic-balancer/
As for anti-sieze, It's really not possible apparently, to get a definitive answer. Check out this thread populated by some heavy hitters from this site:
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=33575
Metalnerd, MoGolf, and jasonTDI know their stuff.

I use it on glow plugs, and would for sure use it on manifold bolts, but would not use it on lug bolts for example. My advice is go case by case. And keep the stuff thin. Just enough to coat.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 18:16   #10
csstevej
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I have never had an issue where anti seize ever caused a bolt to loosen up.

Here in the north east if nothing is put on the bolts you will never remove them in the future.
I’ve had my share of broken bolts.......no thank you as Andy said it’s not fun especially if it’s an exhaust manifold bolt.

I’ve had to use a 3 foot bar to break loose lug nuts off my cars, they never see an impact gun to put tires on. It’s just they rust in the hub, with some anti seize they come out , and yes they still are torqued .

Be a nay sayer if you want.

I’ll still use my anti seize where I will with no I’ll effects.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 18:35   #11
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Normally I advise against it, but your either A: going to snap off a bolt, or B: it is all gummed up.
I’d take the gummed up over snapping a bolt on the head.
Just use as little as possible, use the high temp COPPER version, the silver is basically useless.
Just knock off like 5 ft. lb. off the torque when you do put them on, lubricant will drastically change the torque value vs clapping pressure/ pressure on the threads of the aluminum head.

Read up on this here:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/t...ts-d_1693.html
Adjust accordingly.

in a nut shell, the reason you have very difficult removal is that instead of the *25ftlbs (I think) your supposed to torque them down to you basically torqued them down about 20-30% more than they were supposed to be. Basically by like 6 or 7 ft. lbs. Combine that with the heat of the exhaust making that lubricant now a dry glue paste locking them in, and you probably need 3x that torque to remove them. Still, you didn’t strip them out. YET, Plan accordingly and applicate as you wish.
Remember that Steel bolts against an aluminum threaded head will cause some galvanic reaction. Tough to say which is worse, a seized up bolt in some antiseze glue, vs a rusted bolt do to galvanic reaction.
Your call, don’t ask us, just do what you want based on the data presented.

FWIW, yes i do, but not the way you think you should, put the bolt or stud a few turns in, then apply the antiseze, now torque it down, this keeps it from gushing ahead of the bolt and helps prevent the issues you have with it.

Last edited by Mongler98; January 12th, 2019 at 18:37.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 19:10   #12
climbtheplanet
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Thanks for the input!


The irony in my question is that I just finally got the turbo off the car and while almost everything that could be stuck was, including the intercooler hose and the oil feed line themselves, the manifold bolts came off super easy despite them looking the worst rusted by far. This is the original turbo with 240,000 miles, so it stands to reason nothing was going to go quietly.


Maybe I will just use the paste on the intercooler bolts which don't need to make a seal, just hold the thing on. Everything else was so old I doubt any amount of product would have kept them from being testy.
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Old January 12th, 2019, 20:11   #13
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Perform a compromise instead:
apply anti-seize.....then soak them in salt water...

There....now let's have a 5-page discussion on THAT!!!!!!
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Old January 12th, 2019, 20:26   #14
Mongler98
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A trick for bolts like on your mount for the intercooler. this applies to ALL non high temp bolts that have a open NUT or thread on the back side. Like your water pump, or any welded or non welded bolt.
After installing the bolt, apply some RTV to the BACK of the bolt or the threads were you can see the bolt. This is best applied on the water pump so that the tiny m8 bolts dont rust in there. some holes are open on the back, some not. RTV is the best at sealing them up. Same with your bleed screws on the breaks, put some around the threads, not in the hole. Never worry about a rusted in place bleed screw again. might be rusted on the inside but the threads will be clean.

Project Farm on youtube has a great series on penetrants, and other things like antiseze on bolts in salt water. Check them out, by far the best has been acetone and ATF,
and Sea foam deep creep
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Old January 12th, 2019, 22:02   #15
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Interesting video from Project Farm on penetrating oils.

I'm a fan of acetone or lacquer thinners with Marvel Mystery Oil.

Time is a factor, and vibration. Smack it, and torque it both ways,
on & off. Smack it again. If you can, or have a helper, a light tap tap tap while torquing can sometimes do wonders on removing recalcitrant fasteners.
Patience and persistence frequently wins for me.

I blew my guru away after removing the abs sensor from a rotor during my VR6 brake upgrade. He "didn't have the time", but had a new $40 sensor ready to go. I had the old one out in 15 minutes, unharmed.

The pros are always under pressure to do the job as fast as possible,
and make money on the new parts as well, so they're not fussed about throwing parts into the job. Doing the work yourself
is a different time frame and budget.

If you can get heat to it WITH a penetrating oil, the expansion and contraction of the metal will help the lubricant get in IMO.

My $.02 FWIW.




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