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VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs This is a discussion about MKIII-A3/MkIII Jetta/Golf (<99.5) and B4 Passats (96,97) TDI's. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old January 20th, 2019, 09:40   #1
Crusty
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Idaho
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Fuel Economy: Seems to be 46ish
Default 98 Jetta cranks but wonít start

Good morning everybody. Hereís my scenario. I have been driving my car without problems since I replaced the ignition switch.i bought the car with intermittent starting problems a year ago, replaced the ignition and have been enjoying the car since then. A couple weeks ago, I parked the car and the next morning it would not start. I have been fighting this for 2 weeks and canít figure it out. I have read everything I could find,and this thread seemed the closest:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...=491678&page=7
However, I still canít get my car to start. I hot wired the fuel pump and it makes a humming sound, and I just replaced the 109 relay erroneously. When I crank the car, I get about 350rpm after about 1 second. I was going to crank and crack an injector line to confirm fuel. The more I read,the more confused I get. Am I heading in the right direction?
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Old January 20th, 2019, 11:09   #2
Mongler98
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern MD
Fuel Economy: Race: 12mpg, Gandma:65mpg
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one issue i have is not with the 109 its self, but the socket it sits in. Just a long shot here but try wiggling it when your starting! Its one tip that works for me that IS NOT in that thread.

So, are you getting 12 volts at the IP shutoff solenoid?
Can you give us a list of things you check out that you can confirm are good to go?
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Old January 20th, 2019, 12:15   #3
Crusty
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Idaho
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Fuel Economy: Seems to be 46ish
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Thanks, I will try that. Ok,here’s the list:
New ignition switch (about a year ago)
New 109 relay
Hot wire post on fuel pump (not sure if it’s the solenoid or the fuel pump)
Normal glow plug light
Reads rpms when cranking

Again, this instantaneously happened. It drove fine, and then one morning just didn’t start. Because of this, I suspect electrical, but don’t know enough about VWs to understand how the electrics are laid out. Engines need air,fuel,and not in this case,spark. Based on what I’ve read, my ECM is working?? The only thing I can figure is fuel.

When I wired the post on the pump, should it “click” or “hum?” I got a hum,so I was under the impression it is a pump. Based on what I can tell, I have the AHU engine. When I read, I am confused as to whether I have a fuel pump,or solenoid
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Old January 20th, 2019, 18:12   #4
Mongler98
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern MD
Fuel Economy: Race: 12mpg, Gandma:65mpg
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Well, hot wiring the fuel pick up won’t actually keep it from starting. The IP does all the work; the pickup is just to make things happy.
Unless you’re talking about the IP, if you are not getting 12 volts when the key is in the run position on the round solenoid screw on the top, then your 109 or a fuse or some other wiring issue is present, no need to hot wire. But if you have it wired to 12 volts and it’s still not starting, you can count that the 109 is working and it’s something else.
Did you crack the 3rd injector pipe? Is fuel spraying out? If so, you’re looking at some other issue.
What engine? I’m assuming by your sig it’s an AHU, these things only don’t start for a few reasons, TYPICALLY.
One thing many people look over is the grounds. I can tell you that if you’re missing or have a broken ground, it’s not going to start. There is a round wire harness connector next to the Trans side right next to the water glow plugs. If that is not grounded, the car will not start. Same with if the IP is not plugged in or a wire or some of the wires are broken going to that 12 pin connector.
Is your 3rd injector harness damaged?
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Old January 20th, 2019, 19:12   #5
Crusty
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Idaho
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Fuel Economy: Seems to be 46ish
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Maybe I am doing it wrong, but I get 0v on the post terminal on the end of the IP. I measured from it to ground. Is it supposed to have +12v when the key is on? When I was trying the other day, I ran a wire from the + battery post to that nut,but it didnít help at all.

When I turn on the key, there is a quiet hum that stops when the glow plug light goes out. This is accompanied by a loud click of the glow plug relay kicking off. I havenít been able to test the fuel yet,but I really think it isnít getting fuel. It seems to me that figuring out the wiring to that post is the key

Is the IP itís own lift pump? Is that stud terminal for fuel shutoff solenoid, and is it supposed to be energized with the key on?

Also,how do I insert a picture?
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Old January 20th, 2019, 19:51   #6
Mongler98
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern MD
Fuel Economy: Race: 12mpg, Gandma:65mpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty View Post
Maybe I am doing it wrong, but I get 0v on the post terminal on the end of the IP. I measured from it to ground. Is it supposed to have +12v when the key is on?
YES, that is correct, you want 12v to ground when the key is on run and starting. This opens the valve to let fuel into the IP. If it has 0v, it is Closed and no fuel can get into the IP. This is controlled by a few things buyt last in line is your 109 relay. The first in line is your ignition switch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty View Post
When I was trying the other day, I ran a wire from the + battery post to that nut,but it didnít help at all.
When I turn on the key, there is a quiet hum that stops when the glow plug light goes out. This is accompanied by a loud click of the glow plug relay kicking off. I havenít been able to test the fuel yet,but I really think it isnít getting fuel. It seems to me that figuring out the wiring to that post is the key
Well if you gave that 12 volts, and you cant get it to start, it is 50/50 safe to say that this is not the only problem. This should be fixed as a #1 priority as you cant turn off the car if your hotwiring it unless you add a switch, its also controlled by the safety air bag deployment. If the air bag goes off its supposed to shut off power to the solenoid (I think) or its something else that is supposed to turn off the car if you get in a wreck or flip the car. (I think)
Fix this issue 1st. I had the same issue and i cant remember if jumping it was able to start. I have to wiggle my 109 now just to get it to start. Its not just for the solenoid, i think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty View Post
Is the IP itís own lift pump? Is that stud terminal for fuel shutoff solenoid, and is it supposed to be energized with the key on?
Also,how do I insert a picture?
Either upload it someplace and copy the link or use the picture part of the forums. you have to keep the file size down, and most cameras dont do that by default. Do a search, its like a sticky on front page.
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Old January 20th, 2019, 20:06   #7
Crusty
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Idaho
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Fuel Economy: Seems to be 46ish
Default

Thanks for your replies. Tomorrow I will look ar the contacts for the 109 relay. It is new, and functions like the old one. I get normal lights and functions. Out of the relay,does power go to a fuse for the fuel cutoff solenoid, or straight from the relay?

When I hot wired it, I just put a wire from the battery to the stud. I thought that would at least let it run,but it didn’t.
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Old January 20th, 2019, 20:14   #8
Crusty
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Idaho
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Fuel Economy: Seems to be 46ish
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[url=http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=129932&title=injection-pump&cat=500][/url

Here’s the stud I am talking about
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Old January 20th, 2019, 20:33   #9
ToddA1
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NJ 08002
Fuel Economy: Dismal
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If you have VCDS, scan the car. If your GP light and the rest of the idiot lights go through bulb check, the 109 is good.

-Todd
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Old January 20th, 2019, 20:39   #10
Crusty
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Idaho
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Fuel Economy: Seems to be 46ish
Default

I don’t have a scanner, however, when I turn the key to run, I get check engine,oil,glow plugs. After 20? seconds, the glow plug light goes out and the car is ready to start. From the seat,everything looks like it always has.

I think it is just an issue of no fuel getting to the pump, but I am still not 100% on how it’s wired. Is there a schematic or line diagram?
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Old January 21st, 2019, 07:11   #11
JETaah
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: mi 48836
Fuel Economy: 53 max, 42 min, average 46
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Do you see fuel moving in the clear fuel line leading to the injection pump? Any bubbles in the line?

If it looks like fuel is moving without a TON of bubbles, try pulling the glow plugs and crank it a bit. If it is getting fuel into the cylinders you will see a mist of fuel coming from the glow plug holes. If you see a mist from all four holes, recheck the static timing.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 07:55   #12
Crusty
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Idaho
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Fuel Economy: Seems to be 46ish
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Before I go too far off track, I really think it’s electrical. The car worked flawlessly until one turn of the key. Is the stud in the picture supposed to have 12v with the key on?
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Old January 21st, 2019, 09:00   #13
KLXD
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lompoc, CA
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Be aware that if you wait more than a second or two after turning the key on before checking the voltage on the C/O solenoid its power shuts off. It is powered back up if you crank it.

So either check it while cranking or immediately when you turn the key on.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 13:01   #14
Crusty
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Idaho
TDI(s): 98 Jetta
Fuel Economy: Seems to be 46ish
Default

Thanks everyone for your patience. I tested the stud as my kid turned on the key,and it read just under 12v. Then I cracked the injector line(17mm wrench) and cranked,but got no fuel


Also, I don’t see any clear line you guys are referencing.
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Old January 21st, 2019, 13:19   #15
Alchemist
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The clear line is visible in this picture at the point where it curves around the timing belt cover and goes to the IP.





I see what looks like a lot of damp fuel return lines. If they are leaking fuel out, they will also be leaking air in. This will allow the fuel to drain back to the tank, causing a loss of prime. Since you first had the problem after the car sat overnight, this is the most likely cause.
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