Motorkote - the US product in a TDI?

Henrick

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Greetings US guys,

a quick question - has anyone of you heard or used Motorkote Hyper Lubricant in an internal combustion engine?

I watched this video and it seems that thewear is actually reduced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88vwUwa3igQ

Since this doesn't look like a snake oil, I am considering to try to use this product in a TDI.

I did some googling and seems that this product is available only in US, unfortunately.

Thoughts? Comments? Feedback?
 

Henrick

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No, it's more like "it won't do any harm anyway" idea.
Would love to see how this works in a PD motors which suffer premature cam wear though
 

GreenLantern_TDI

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Kinda like Archoil 9100. BITOG site shows many advising against playing garage chemist. Does it work? Maybe. Does Archoil work? Maybe. Can you also make Meth in your garage? Sure you can. But should you?.....
 

Henrick

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Well, that artice doesn't say it's Motorkote.
It may or may not have different ingridients.
Wonder if there was UOA done for specifically that stuff.
 

Henrick

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I found a few VOAs/UOAs and they show absolutely nothing. The ingridients must be some other than those tested in a chap UOA test
 

turbobrick240

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I envision some guy in a garage filling those little bottles from a drum of Ashland 30W. Also, that guy's testing apparatus/procedure isn't worth squat.
 

Ol'Rattler

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No, it's more like "it won't do any harm anyway" idea.
Would love to see how this works in a PD motors which suffer premature cam wear though
The reason PD cams have wear issues is because the design is fragile, not because of the lubricating properties of the oil used. Unless Motorkote has little tiny engineers in it that redesign and re-manufacture your engine while you drive, the only thing it will do is make your wallet lighter.
 

Ol'Rattler

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I found a few VOAs/UOAs and they show absolutely nothing. The ingridhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XliL3qN1njAients must be some other than those tested in a chap UOA test
Why would a UOA test for the ingredients of something that doesn't belong in your oil? Imagination probably isn't a tested for ingredient either.

Yet another completely believable endorsement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XliL3qN1njA
 

tikal

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It seems that Archoil (9100, 9200 and 9300) and LiquiMoly Ceratec have substantially more usage and feedback from end users so I would research them first.
 

turbobrick240

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At least Archoil identifies the active components in their additives. I believe Boron(or a compound containing boron) is the principal anti-wear additive in most of their products. I imagine LiquiMoly also gives some info on the ceratec product formulation. Then again slick 50 identified Teflon in their product- and it was/is snake oil crap.
 

Henrick

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Make wallet lighter? It's only 30 Euros for a 1 quart jug, worth trying. You spend way more on hamburgers/cheeseburgers and Red Bull.
Anyway, I got the bottle of that stuff, it's on my table right behind me.

Besides, the same "Project Farm" has tested some Liqui Moly additive and proved it to be snake oil. LM does invest a lot of in marketing on this side of the pond.
 

turbobrick240

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I stumbled across the project farm videos a while back. A few are moderately entertaining, but most are just silly. I don't need a video to know if a gas engine will run on kerosene, or how well a wooden cylinder head will work. He seems to be a big fan of As-seen-on-TV oil products. Amateur city.
 

MichaelB

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I stumbled across the project farm videos a while back. A few are moderately entertaining, but most are just silly. I don't need a video to know if a gas engine will run on kerosene, or how well a wooden cylinder head will work. He seems to be a big fan of As-seen-on-TV oil products. Amateur city.
Project Farm is just another Youtube presenter trying to make a buck by doing weird stuff that you and I would never do.
 

Ol'Rattler

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Make wallet lighter? It's only 30 Euros for a 1 quart jug, worth trying. You spend way more on hamburgers/cheeseburgers and Red Bull.
Anyway, I got the bottle of that stuff, it's on my table right behind me.

Besides, the same "Project Farm" has tested some Liqui Moly additive and proved it to be snake oil. LM does invest a lot of in marketing on this side of the pond.
So that justifies flushing your money down the toilet? "Try it" on your breakfast cereal in the morning. It certainly would "do something".
 

James & Son

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Henrick, I have never seen you do a uoa, so how are you going to see results. You will not know the long term affects on your engine. Will it reduce your OCI for instance. What will be the by products as the compound is consumed or broken down.

For instance I don't like Molydtc in a diesel oil because as the disulfide is consumed it breaks down to MOS3 which is abrasive by product of consumption.

I don't think you will use it for that very reason. It might be useful in a engine with a mildly damaged cam though as it might help in that case since it seems to like steel surfaces.
 

Henrick

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Never told I am going to try it it my engine and monitor something via UOA.. Since this stuff is claimed to be really multipurpose, it can be use anywhere from lubricating hinges or bicycle chains to nearly industrial equipment.

Besides, I accumulate miles very slowly. It would take years to estabilsh a wear trends if I used something in my car/engine.
 
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tikal

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Boron based nano oil additives

At least Archoil identifies the active components in their additives. I believe Boron(or a compound containing boron) is the principal anti-wear additive in most of their products. I imagine LiquiMoly also gives some info on the ceratec product formulation. Then again slick 50 identified Teflon in their product- and it was/is snake oil crap.
I believe the current research/science behind the benefits of using hexagonal boron nitride (hBN) (Archoil 9100, LM Ceratec) and tungsten disulfide (WS2) (Archoil 9200) are better established than using Teflon back a few decades ago.

For those interested in the subject here is one research paper from the Argonne National Labs that I would consider worth while to read at a minimum the 'Executive Summary':

https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1097780

"In this project, most of the boron-based materials with known and potential
anti-friction and -wear properties have been manufactured as colloidal additives and tested for their
effectiveness in controlling friction and wear. Unlike other anti-friction and -wear additives, which
consist of zinc, molybdenum, sulfur, phosphorus, and even chlorine, lubricious boron
compounds considered in this project are made of boron, oxygen, nitrogen, and hydrogen,
which are more environmentally benign. Among others, boric acid is a natural mineral (known
in mineralogy as “sassolite”). Based on our earlier exploratory research, it was found to offer the
best overall prospect in terms of performance improvements, environmental friendliness, and
ease of manufacturing and, hence, cost effectiveness. Hexagonal boron nitride and borax also
offered good prospects for improving the tribological properties of lubricated sliding surfaces.
Boron oxide particles were found to be rather hard and somewhat abrasive and, hence, were
not considered beyond the initial screening studies. In our bench-top tribological evaluation, we
also demonstrated that those additives which worked well with engine oils could work equally
well with very common gear oils. When added at appropriate concentrations, such gear oils
were found to provide significant resistance to micropitting and scuffing failures in bench-top
tribological test systems. Their traction coefficients were also reduced substantially and their
scuffing limits were improved considerably. Such impressive tribological behavior of boron based
additives may have been due to their high chemical affinities to interact with sliding
contact surfaces and to form slick and protective boundary films. Indeed, our surface studies
have confirmed that most of the boron-based nanoparticulate additives prepared in our project
possess a strong tendency to form a boron-rich boundary film on sliding contact surfaces. It is
believed that the formation of such slick and highly durable boundary films is perhaps one of the
fundamental reasons for their superior anti-friction, -wear, and -scuffing performance.
Boron-based additives developed under this project have shown potential to reduce or replace
the uses of environmentally unsafe sulfur- and phosphorus-bearing anti-wear and –friction
additives, such as zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP) and molybdenum dialkyl dithiocarbamate
(MoDTC), in current lubricating oils. Because ZDDP and MoDTC were suspected of adversely
impacting the performance of after-treatment catalysts in current engines, the Environmental
Protection Agency (EPA) and other regulatory agencies are demanding that the concentrations
of these catalysts in current oils be curtailed drastically. The boron-based nano-additives
developed in this project may help reduce the use of ZDDP and MoDTC additives and, hence,
help ease the poisoning effects on after-treatment catalysts. When used as lubricity additives,
these boron additives can chemically interact with sliding or contacting surfaces and form a
protective and slick boundary film, which can, in turn, help reduce friction and wear and increase
resistance to scuffing. In the cases of traditional anti-friction and -wear additives mentioned,
such protective boundary films result from phosphorus, sulfur, and other elements in the
additive package, and again they have been under increased scrutiny in recent years, mainly
because of their adverse effects on after-treatment devices.
"
 

James & Son

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Problem with all nano additives is they are only effective as boundary lubricants. They do not reduce cam wear which is elasto hydro dynamic oil film and can actually block oilflow entering the cam interface.

The problem is nano may be fine on a sub micro level but in actual use it accumulates into clumps that become micro blocking the entrainment of oil. Now it might be fine for rings but is not good for a BRM cam. Boron is better used as a anti-oxidant rather than an anti-wear at low concentrations.

The reason being that solid lubricants to work as anti-wear work best including ZDDP at over 1000 parts per million. Lubrimoly has reduced the moly concentration to reduce probably destroying catalytic convertors. It is high temp. and inert so it probably coats the converter, common sense say's not to do that.

Boron as an anti-wear needs higher concentrations. All metals have an effect on the emission systems as they create ash. I like Renewable Lubricant as it is CJ4 and does not rely on molydtc or boron to be effective

Edit: ceratec is an attempt to combine molydisulfide and hexagonal boron at reduced concentrations. They may still work on a mildly damaged engine but there is no need to use them otherwise.
 
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Henrick

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How much oil you need to burn for metallic ash to become a problem?
Soot also ends up in ash and in way bigger amounts, I think. Doesn't it?
 

DaveyT

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2003 Jetta TDI
Henrick, I'm considering MotorKote myself in my 03 Jetta TDI.
Since this thread was written more than three years ago, how has your experience gone with this hyper lubricant?
 
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