www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs

VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs This is a discussion about MKIII-A3/MkIII Jetta/Golf (<99.5) and B4 Passats (96,97) TDI's. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 10th, 2009, 17:03   #16
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast
Pre-Forum Veteran Member
 
Lug_Nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
Default

Maybe the socket was corroded, or something else other than a break in the fuse was creating a break in the electric circuit. In any case, no power to the glow plugs will create difficulty in starting when cold. The colder, the more difficult.
__________________
If the quantity of carbonic acid increases in geometric progression,
the augmentation of the temperature will increase nearly in arithmetic progression.

Svante Arrhenius 1896

Cogito ergo soy (I think, therefore: Biodiesel)
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 22nd, 2009, 20:25   #17
riofrio
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Haven, CT
Default

Ok, so.. I'm a bit confused here. Other than the physical location of the relay in the car, is there a difference between the 96 and 97 unit? I just bought one from dieselgeek for my 96 B4, and the only one they have is "Glow Plug Relay/Control Unit for Early TDI 038 911 253", which according to the site it fits both 96 and 97 models, but according to Chris Bell's post above this is only for the 97??
__________________
96 Passat TDI, 330k
02 Jetta Wagon TDI, 230k
riofrio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2009, 13:38   #18
sfierz
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Fuel Economy: 54/42/35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2TDIguy
sfierz, So your fuse was not blown but still affected the system to creat a hard start? I assume you mean the 50 amp MAXI fuse.
I think the fuse was more or less blown. The metal in the maxifuse was deformed and charred, but it wasn't completely broken. I believe it passed a little bit of current, and was probably intermittent. Might have been like that since I bought the car, I don't know. BTW, on my car, it is an 80 amp fuse.

Steve
sfierz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2009, 04:51   #19
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast
Pre-Forum Veteran Member
 
Lug_Nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
Default

RioFrio,
The early glow plug relay (factory printed 103) did not have the "balanced circuit check" used to monitor glow plug failures of later TDI. The early glow plug had only three (or is it four?) connecting legs. It is a single pole relay.

The later glow plug relay (factory printed 180) has a tiny circuit board inside, two separate output legs to the glow plugs (1/2 and 3/4), a pair of legs for the ECU monitor (SI and DT?) for a total of about 7 mounting legs. This is a double pole relay.

These are NOT interchangeable. The wiring harnesses are different. The single output from one relay does not travel through the same legs as the dual outputs from the other. The relay coil input signals are also sent through different legs.
__________________
If the quantity of carbonic acid increases in geometric progression,
the augmentation of the temperature will increase nearly in arithmetic progression.

Svante Arrhenius 1896

Cogito ergo soy (I think, therefore: Biodiesel)
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 07:29   #20
slapshotjh
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT
TDI(s): 97 GLX B4V
Default

I am bumping this post back up. Is there any relay in position number 12 on a 1997 B4? I am reading that there is a jumper to the remote relay. Is that done on the back side of the relay board? I am in the middle of a 1997 vr6 conversion project using a 1997 donor car. There was a relay in position 12 on the donor car's relay board. It also had the long wire to the big fuse and the single relay up in the dash which I have transferred over.
slapshotjh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 08:49   #21
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast
Pre-Forum Veteran Member
 
Lug_Nut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
Default

The factory "Jumper" looks just like a relay, but it has only two legs that connect what are the "Line" and "Load" ports of the position 12 socket into which the ersatz 'relay' is plugged. A simple jumper, much like the one used for the fog lamps, will similarly bridge the battery power socket in position 12, to the output that feeds to the remote glow relay socket.

And this shouldn't require a "TTT bump". It 's now a sticky thread and remains near to the top.
__________________
If the quantity of carbonic acid increases in geometric progression,
the augmentation of the temperature will increase nearly in arithmetic progression.

Svante Arrhenius 1896

Cogito ergo soy (I think, therefore: Biodiesel)
Lug_Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 09:29   #22
slapshotjh
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT
TDI(s): 97 GLX B4V
Default

I'll have to take another look when I get home, but I think the relay I transferred over was numbered like a relay. I will check to see if it has more than 2 prongs.

I didn't notice this topic was stickied, that is pretty helpful.
slapshotjh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 17:36   #23
slapshotjh
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT
TDI(s): 97 GLX B4V
Default

I did remember correctly. There is a numbered relay in position 12. It has 3 prongs and is not a jumper. This is probably one of the reasons the car won't start. I ordered the juper relay today, should be here Wednesday.
slapshotjh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2009, 20:29   #24
rdkern
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Humboldt Co CA
Fuel Economy: A4 = wife drives it, don't know
Default

What's the number on the relay?
__________________
Whitedog's in progress no-start link. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398
Read all about it!
rdkern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2009, 10:44   #25
slapshotjh
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT
TDI(s): 97 GLX B4V
Default

It is a 4 pin relay number 18. I am guessing this may be one reason my project is having a tough time starting.

Are the glow plugs the only thing that operate from relay position 12 on the 1997 passats?

Last edited by slapshotjh; February 24th, 2009 at 10:49.
slapshotjh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2009, 11:06   #26
rdkern
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Humboldt Co CA
Fuel Economy: A4 = wife drives it, don't know
Default

My Bentleys is kinda screwy with the newer 1Z, like it has half of the relay location page cut off so I can't see if it shows anything there or not. The older engine style shows relay 104 in number 12. I realize that we are in an area in which Bentley's has been shown rather... how to say this..... weak?

I would trust LugNut, especially in this area.
__________________
Whitedog's in progress no-start link. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398
Read all about it!
rdkern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2009, 11:40   #27
slapshotjh
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT
TDI(s): 97 GLX B4V
Default

Yeah, my Bentley is not too helpful either. I have the CD rom Bentley for the B4s, and the page that would show the 2 relays for the 1997 1.9 is pushed to the side of the screen. For every other engine I can see what relays are needed, but not for the engine I have. I purchased a wrecked car that was not running. I have a feeling somebody was trying to get it running by stuffing relays in it.
slapshotjh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2009, 13:45   #28
rdkern
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Humboldt Co CA
Fuel Economy: A4 = wife drives it, don't know
Default

If I remember, I'll take a shot of my relay panel. It is a 97 car, but the engine seems to be older (oil pressure switch in the wrong spot, no egr cooler). Perhaps it'll help.
__________________
Whitedog's in progress no-start link. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398
Read all about it!
rdkern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2009, 17:09   #29
slapshotjh
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT
TDI(s): 97 GLX B4V
Default

That would be great! I've been trying to find a shot of a 97 relay panel here on the site, but they mostly shot the glow pug relay and big fuse that is up above the relay board. The jumper relay should arrive tomorrow. Hopefully I can get my conversion project up and running shortly thereafter.
slapshotjh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2009, 20:08   #30
rdkern
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Humboldt Co CA
Fuel Economy: A4 = wife drives it, don't know
Default

I took three terrible shots out there, but since they really show nothing, I'll tell you what I saw.

In #12 is a white box, with two prongs that plug in, that form a "T" with a separation in it. I hope I put it back in right, otherwise I might have fund tomorrow trying to drive the car (which was working before I took this out to look at it).

So, if I'm remembering correctly, this is basically a straight shot from one pin to the other. I'll try again for a photo some time when I have the whole panel down, not just that little access hole.
__________________
Whitedog's in progress no-start link. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199398
Read all about it!
rdkern is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Glow Plug Relay Location woodbutcher1953 TDI 101 9 June 6th, 2015 17:50
Glow Plug Relay (A3)(B4)(Early A4) microsoot Private TDI Items for Sale/Wanted 13 September 24th, 2011 06:37
96 B4 coolant glow plug relay strip fuse shockt VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs 2 November 10th, 2009 10:16
Bosch Glow Plug Relay {new} A3/B4 JettaTDI98 Private TDI Items for Sale/Wanted 2 April 10th, 2009 00:53
Location of Engine Glow Plug Fuse & Relay on 1997 Jetta TDI Guy Beland TDI 101 1 April 14th, 2001 00:01


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.15965 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 125.18 Kb. compressed to 104.33 Kb. by saving 20.85 Kb. (16.65%)]