Electric vehicles (EVs), their emissions, and future viability

They may share that group data at some point. I'm sure there is a way for individual owners (even with free Supercharging) to access their own Supercharger records. It might involve a phone call.

Don't know if they still do, but Tesla used to keep track of people taking advantage of the free supercharging.
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/07/09/tesla-limiting-supercharging-rates-frequent-users/

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Lots of Tesla drivers like to keep the batteries between 10% and 60% charged. They charge faster in that window, but it limits miles between charges to 150-175 miles depending on driving style and weather.

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Lawson and I drove from VA to WA a few weeks ago - We left the DC area on a Friday afternoon, and arrived in Bellingham WA Tuesday morning. First stop was at GeekDrew's in OH, then to Custer SD, then Bellingham. At each stop we spend a few hours relaxing before going to bed. Quite the trip!

kjclow, regarding the tracking of charging... not sure what you're talking about? Tesla tracks all supercharging weather you're paying or it's included. You can see all the charging sessions in your Tesla account page.

Here's the payment history for the trip: https://imgur.com/a/YOKOWju

Note that we were stoping more often than needed, because VeeDubTDI is in the "collect them all" Supercharger game Having Autopilot made the drive much, much easier.

Bonus picture of our dog Haru napping on the road: https://imgur.com/gallery/CtK4mIF

-J

kjclow said:

If I were Tesla and offering free supercharging, I would sure have a way of tracking you uses it and how often. I'm sure there is software set up for tracking. It also would not surprise me that the owners know nothing about that tracking.

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I don't see how they would be surprised. The car is a computer that is always online; its location is a normal piece of data. When it plugs into a supercharger, the central collective has to know who it is to figure out if/how to bill it. Location, time, records, no mystery to any of that.

AntonLargiader said:

....the central collective ....

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Ha ha, The Borg!

Tin Man said:

Ha ha, The Borg!

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The DNS name of the VPN server all Teslas connect back to is mothership.

Resistance is futile. Jay Leno reviews the Model Y:
https://youtu.be/cH79SuivdAQ

I guess I'm the odd duck out. I absolutely despise Tesla's business practices and would never buy one. Do not confuse that with hating EVs, while I don't believe their 100% for me I understand them, and get it. I equate Tesla to the Apple of Cars. Is apple a bad company, no, just not for me because I do not agree with their business practices and model.

My biggest complaints with Tesla come around the ability to work on and fix your own vehicle, or atleast to have a local trusted mechanic do it. Now honestly I get the counter arguments of quality control, Tesla is held responsible, protecting the supply chain, and protecting IP, etc...etc... but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it at all. I also don't agree with their teething and supply chain problems. Further the price for what you get is insane on some level. The model 3 / Y is starting to break that norm, and I get some of the R&D and such is spread over different models... thus the cost is spread. But for the love of all that is holy, sort out your manufacturing problems. If someone is paying $35,000+ --- That vehicle better not be missing paint in places, or have messed up panel gaps, or have stuff falling off of their cars etc...etc.... The vehicle should come out perfect. I've literally seen better quality control from Kia.... let that sink in especially when I say I bought them brand new 2004.5 Kia Spectra, 2006 Kia Spectra SX, 2010 Kia Forte EX, 2012 Kia Forte Koup, 2015 Kia Forte LX. Not a single one of those vehicles had panel gap issues, paint issues, etc...etc...

Now off of my Rant and onto what I want to post. My other half is excited for the new Q4 Etron. I might be interested as well at some point. But it seems like a decent vehicle from what we know, and curious to see how it goes. https://www.caranddriver.com/audi/q4-e-tron

It's not that unusual to suffer from Tesla derangement syndrome. It is curable, as many doubters/haters are won over every day (look at the flip-flop that crazy Cramer stock screamer guy did). Jay Leno, one the country's most notable auto enthusiasts, clearly doesn't suffer from the affliction- and like myself is somewhat mystified by it. But, in the end, Tesla doesn't need to win everyone over. They can do swimmingly well with an iPhone sized share of the market.

turbobrick240 said:

It's not that unusual to suffer from Tesla derangement syndrome. It is curable, as many doubters/haters are won over every day (look at the flip-flop that crazy Cramer stock screamer guy did). Jay Leno, one the country's most notable auto enthusiasts, clearly doesn't suffer from the affliction- and like myself is somewhat mystified by it. But, in the end, Tesla doesn't need to win everyone over. They can do swimmingly well with an iPhone sized share of the market.

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One thing that pits many against Tesla is the blind support and misstatements from fans. Someone posted earlier that EVs are now "mainstream." While I suppose they're known, with EVs including hybrids at 2% market share I question the extent to which they're mainstream.

And yes, Tesla would do fine with an "iPhone sized share of the market." And while Tesla makes up a significant slice of that 2% EV and hybrid market, iPhones are 45% of the US smartphone market. Tesla is not, and I venture, will never be, close to that. Exaggeration makes doubters more skeptical, not less.

I don't think something needs to be in the majority to be mainstream. For instance, it wasn't that long ago that transgender individuals were seen as freaks on the fringes of society. Society has progressed, and now those folks have gained much greater acceptance. Some might even say they have become mainstream. Tolerance and acceptance will ultimately triumph over fear, uncertainty, and doubt. As much as I love summers in Maine, November can't get here soon enough.

Kool-Aid drinking EV enthusiasts are usually IT professionals devoted to their craft. Understandable but worthy of criticism.

Turbo,

Wow man that is probably one of the worst arguments I've seen in a while. I am 100% a progressive, a millennial at that, and while I agree Transgender individuals have seen some progress they are absolutely not mainstream accepted pretty much anywhere in the country. In a blue state you might have a higher acceptance rate, but even then there is hate, fear and BS.

Your argument is like saying Women have 100% equal rights, are 100% equal footing in all ways in society even though they have been fighting hard since the movements of the 1960's & 1970's. They can't even get competitive and equal pay.

Or better yet gay rights which are still getting trounced on and attacked, given people denying gay couples the ability to get a wedding cake made and etc...

Or better yet African American rights / equality. Have you not been watching the country? Literally people dying in the streets police officers, african americans. Huge protests and marches not seen since MLK....... If all of these groups haven't gained mainstream / universal acceptance in all this time... you cannot be naive enough to believe that transgender have....

Society makes progress sure, but for literally that comment and the EV's put down your rose colored glasses for a second and look at the world for what it is. Flawed, and yet Beautiful. Everything comes in different colors, hues, levels of saturations, and there are many levels of gray areas as well. This is exactly what we are talking about when it comes to EVs. Nothing is perfect, people have different tastes, and sometimes you just have to be realistic and put down the hype-cannon.

Tin Man --- I agree. Also I am a System Administrator and a Web Developer.... heh...

Sorry if I touched a nerve there Daemon. For God's sake get out and vote (or mail it in) this fall. Encourage all of your friends to do likewise. Your generation, and younger generations in general have traditionally had abysmal turnout rates. We need to change that.

I was hoping this thread wouldn't get TOO far off topic. Oh well...

I have personally sat in both a Model 3 and Model S. Friend is service center technician. Having time to operate and drive the S and having seen the new technology from the other side (as a dealer mechanic), there is no way I'll get one of these.

When even the most basic of functions is a menu layer or two deep, that turns me off. There should be physical controls for a couple items, or at least the basic operation of them (IE wipers). I like to just grab a knob to turn the radio down so I can hear the question someone is asking. For the sake of being to upgrade the car software, then make the knob multi use and allow customer (we aren't really owners anymore) set preference as to default function.

I hate finger prints on shiny surface so touch screens bug me. I'll get over it because that's where everything is heading. Also I despise the trend of a big screen sticking above the dash.

After sitting in a $90k + S I couldn't help but wonder why it felt so cheap and flimsy inside. Then I go sit in a $90k Phaeton and that feels worth every bit of $90k.
Another big sticking point for me is when spending this much money, I want to see and touch it to make sure "this is what I want". Tesla's model tends not to be this way. After the first or second car then I may feel comfortable buying Tesla way, but not for the first one.

For the record I was looking to get a used S for commuting. It has the room to also take the whole family in comfort. There is 3 charging cables at work and SuperCharger near my house. But this is a case of I changed my mind when I actually got to sit in one and drive it.

Jason

The Model S has a wiper stalk / control scheme lifted right from Mercedes On the Model S the single "screen only" control is the sunroof.

Yes, on the 3, to adjust the wipers from automatic to manual you have to poke at the screen, but that selection is on the home display. Mist / single wipe and wash are on the end of the turn signal stalk, again borrowing the Mercedes control scheme.

When I'm driving our Model 3, I find I almost ever need to touch the screen when driving apart from changing the radio station (which is something I did on the radio screen in the Passat too). Everything else is a stalk, or button on the steering wheel (EG, cruise control / autopilot).

The auto climate control works well; I don't need to fiddle with it when driving. Seat heater stays on low. Headlights are automatic. Wipers are automatic (and work a lot better now than when we go the car in 2018).

I'll agree that finishing on the Phaeton is nicer. And the VW has a heated steering wheel and air suspension with CDC... things you can only get on the S / X.

-J

The ergonomics are the biggest turn off for me, too. When I have to sit in a car and "figure out" how to make it move... no thanks. Some of the newer high end BMWs and MBs can be pretty annoying, too, but the Tesla does seem to take it to the next level. I'm sure if that is all you drive, you'd get used to it. But I like simple.

Recently one of the other techs (after spending 10+ minutes) actually had to call the owner out into the shop to get the odometer to show up. And even the owner had to mess with it for a minute. That's nuts, sorry.

I know I'm doomed but I prefer cars without screens. I purposely looked for a BMW that didn't have nav so I could skip the display. But I know if I'm buying anything close to a new car from here forward I'm stuck.

I think it's nonsense when reviewers say it's hard to find one control or another in a car they're testing. If you own the car you'll learn where things are and it won't be a problem.

yeah i agree on the direction of everything inside of a tablet is super annoying and not something I look for. I was a little annoyed w/ the e-golf but it still had some tactile buttons. This is a trend that most manufacturers seem to be heading towards, Tesla was just there first. I for one do not like that direction... I also agree that you could get used to it. But I got to tell you, the thing I enjoy about my Q5 the most is the volume knob, down by the shifter. I never have to look for the controls, and my hand normally sits down in that area, and because of its' placement and what it feels like. I never have to even guess that I am hitting something else....hahahaha...

Turbo - It is disenfranchisement that keeps millenials and Y's from voting. As a group and I've spoken to many, we do not feel that politicians actually represent our views, and goals these days. Until that happens voter turnout will be low. However it looks like in general that is really starting to change at the local level. Also vote Turnout for Bernie was UP for Millenials and Y's this time vs. 2016, but Voter Turnout for Boomers for Biden was ridiculously up vs. 2016 for Hilary... its not that we didn't show up, or more of use than last time... its that more of the Boomers showed up for biden... and hey... in the end as far as I am concerned, the more people in the process the better. As far as getting people out to vote... hahaha no worries here. I live in Massachusetts, it will vote blue no matter what. But I will vote for all the locals who fit my views the best. Thanks for your concern and statement.

Meanwhile, hidden from mainstream media coverage, hydrogen EVs see quite some investments.

Would not it be great to have hybrid battery/hydrogen EVs while hydrogen supply get organized? Eventually hydrogen only will make more sense than BEVs, once solid state hydrogen storage is viable. Very small compact fuel cells are also on development. All that will make hydrogen cars potentially cheaper to make than BEVs.

Politics is like underwear. Almost everyone uses it and most will stink if aired out in public. There should be no politics on an EV thread other than perhaps what was discussed earlier in EV subsidies and sales.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I know I'm doomed but I prefer cars without screens. I purposely looked for a BMW that didn't have nav so I could skip the display. But I know if I'm buying anything close to a new car from here forward I'm stuck.

I think it's nonsense when reviewers say it's hard to find one control or another in a car they're testing. If you own the car you'll learn where things are and it won't be a problem.

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I secretly long for my first car, a rusty 1966 912 with everything mechanical and elemental. A bit slow perhaps but lots of fun to drive. I learned a lot maintaining that car....

I can't tell you how many customers I talk to who still love and won't give up their MKIV TDIs. Simple, easy to fix, modern enough to be a pleasant drive at today's speeds. Mine has manual windows, mirrors, no sunroof. I think an accident would be the only thing that would take it away from me.

Tin man,

Agreed. I was responding to the earlier comments but will try to keep it on topic.

But also getting back on topic. Anyone have any thoughts, feedback and etc on the Q4 E-tron concept? https://www.caranddriver.com/audi/q4-e-tron

Thanks.


I think Audi's connection to Porsche and the Taycan can bring good things to its EV's. The e-tron GT may be a bit pricey, but may have some great innovations. Not being able to use Tesla's charging network, however, is a big disadvantage if current trends don't accelerate the available charging stations enough. A car like the Q4 e-tron begs to be on long trips....

I think the Q4 etron could sell pretty well in Europe, where where non-Tesla charging infrastructure is much more prevalent than in the US/Canada. Assuming it's not on the ID Buzz timetable. Here, where Tesla owns 80%+ of the BEV market and non-Tesla fast chargers are sparse, it will struggle. The Model Y will probably outsell it 10:1. Looks sharp though.

oilhammer said:

The ergonomics are the biggest turn off for me, too. When I have to sit in a car and "figure out" how to make it move... no thanks. Some of the newer high end BMWs and MBs can be pretty annoying, too, but the Tesla does seem to take it to the next level. I'm sure if that is all you drive, you'd get used to it. But I like simple.

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I have the same issue with Audi rentals. I can never figure out how to change the radio channels and sources. I've had to show co-workers where to find the heated and cooled seats on some of the newer dodges that don't have a phyisical switch but it's on the same screen as in my truck.

Daemon64 said:

Tin man,
Agreed. I was responding to the earlier comments but will try to keep it on topic.
But also getting back on topic. Anyone have any thoughts, feedback and etc on the Q4 E-tron concept? https://www.caranddriver.com/audi/q4-e-tron

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Biggest turn off is that it's only a four seater. If I need to put poeple in the back seat, it's almost always three. I thought VWAG learned that lesson with the CC offered in the US. The Candian version got a regular three person bench in the back.

Little by little it's getting there for non-Tesla EVs.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...rst-cross-country-fast-charging-route-for-evs