Flush or drain the transmission?

oilhammer · Jun 1, 2015

Marisa05MKIV said:
The DSG wasn't in the 2005.

It said "2005 New Jetta", which I took to mean the "new-for-middle-2005" A5 Jetta, which does indeed use a DSG.

The DSG came out in 2004, BTW. New Beetle TDIs and Audi TT 3.2 where the first models we saw with them.

But in any case, YOUR car's Jatco transmission is generally a pretty good unit, and isn't very picky about ATF. You've worried far too much about it and posted in a bunch of threads about it. It just isn't that big of a deal.

Marisa05MKIV · Jun 4, 2015

jettawreck said:
Once you have past 100K miles, drain/change it every 40-50K. On the 09A you only drain/replace 3.5-4 qts of fluid per drain, so not a lot of the fluid really gets replaced each time, but many report much better functioning (here and on vwvortex) with regular fluid changes. Since there is no filter to replace w/o a complete disassembly, the fluid replacement is the least you can do.

Gotrek said:
That would be only if you've lost the Fluid and don't know how much came out.

If you're the one draining it. Measure how much came out and put that much back in. Very simple

oilhammer said:
Well, as has been stated, unless there is a leak, you are not changing the level. However, the "program" needed is super cheap, easy to use, and pretty much no harder then plugging a connector in and a few mouse clicks and some basic reading. If you can drain and fill the transmission, you can use the scan tool.
So yes, VERY easy.

RT1 said:
It's really not that complicated. You can't change the filter so it's just a matter of pulling the drain plug, measuring what comes out and refill with the same amount. If you really want to get technical: level the car out, drain out the old, put the plug back, pour your four liters in, start 'er up, run through the gears and measure the temp on the front cover of the trans with a cheapy temperature gun. When it gets to 90 degrees pull the overfill plug and let the excess drain out. Reinstall overfill plug and secure the fill cap with a small zip tie.

In all honesty I've only "changed" fluid when the solenoids went bad and that was fifty thousand miles ago. It's a pretty sturdy transmission that doesn't seem to need to treated with kid gloves.

1.9glstdi said:
The 09A is easy you can remove the vertical pan to change the solenoids not the filter you have to split the case for that. Change the fluid with mobil 1 synthetic ATF that's what I use its 8- 10 a qt and you change it every 50k. If you're worried about over filling it measure what comes out. If you do overfill it, it will come out the fill hole when it get hot.

So my issue is this, only 3 quarts came out exactly, so I'm thinking the Dealer might have drained some to see what the fluid looked like when they checked it out. They decided not to sell it at their dealership and was on it's way to a wholesaler so I bought it as is. I'm thinking I should have the level checked with vagcom but dont trust the dealer to do it and the place I had the fluid changed doesn't have one.

oilhammer · Jun 4, 2015

If the place you had the fluid changed doesn't have a scan tool, then they shouldn't be doing that type of work, and you shouldn't be taking your car there.

Marisa05MKIV · Jun 4, 2015

oilhammer said:
If the place you had the fluid changed doesn't have a scan tool, then they shouldn't be doing that type of work, and you shouldn't be taking your car there.

Why not if it's so easy to do...just measure what you drain right....so easy you can do it yourself. What was I suppose to do, go buy a vagcom?

oilhammer · Jun 4, 2015

Marisa05MKIV said:
Why not if it's so easy to do...just measure what you drain right....so easy you can do it yourself. What was I suppose to do, go buy a vagcom?

Well, yes.

Seriously, I could have done the ATF service 20 times in the time you've spent typing about it here. Why are you making such a simple thing so difficult???

A Prius, a Cobalt, a Camry, an Explorer, and about 30 other models require the same basic procedure for checking/filling their automatic transmissions. This isn't rocket science. ANY shop SHOULD be able to do this.

jettawreck · Jun 4, 2015

Marisa05MKIV said:
Why not if it's so easy to do...just measure what you drain right....so easy you can do it yourself. What was I suppose to do, go buy a vagcom?

The replace the amount you drain out only obviously works if it was properly filled in the previous service.
Seems quite simple. Or, from the many posts, after draining to refill with 3.5 qts if not "able" to verify the level with VCDS.

Gotrek · Jun 4, 2015

If you ad .5 quarts extra when the fluid warms and expands it will just go into the overflow tube (the one you check when the temp is correct) Also... Not every car will drain the same amount. Most of the fluid stays in the torque converter and not everyone lifts their car the same to service it.

But if you are not sure how much came out prior to your service then service it using the VAG-com procedure. If you need peace of mind and stress relief follow the proper instruction set to gain it.

Marisa05MKIV · Jun 4, 2015

jettawreck said:
The replace the amount you drain out only obviously works if it was properly filled in the previous service.
Seems quite simple. Or, from the many posts, after draining to refill with 3.5 qts if not "able" to verify the level with VCDS.

Gotrek said:
If you ad .5 quarts extra when the fluid warms and expands it will just go into the overflow tube (the one you check when the temp is correct) Also... Not every car will drain the same amount. Most of the fluid stays in the torque converter and not everyone lifts their car the same to service it.

But if you are not sure how much came out prior to your service then service it using the VAG-com procedure. If you need peace of mind and stress relief follow the proper instruction set to gain it.

Thanks, it was only dealer serviced so the transmission would never have been serviced. The used car dealer I got it from puts it through their shop and I think they may have drained some fluid out because I only got 3 qts out and most people have 3.5-4, so yeah I'm going to have the VW Dealer top it off with the vagcom.

CommuterBoy · Aug 17, 2015

Probably not a bad idea if you don't know where the baseline is.

FWIW, I just picked up a new to me BEW this summer with about 65,000 miles with the 09A and it took me three "drain and fill" cycles before I was getting fluid out that didn't look wrong.

The first drain was black as night, about 3.5l. It took 4l of fluid to get it up to the right level, temperature measured by hand feel, not VAGCOM.

The second drain was dark brown, not like the nice ruby red fluid (Ravenol from Blauparts) I put in. About 4l.

The third drain was reddish, but still had a brownish tint to it. Again it took 4l.

I've got 4l left, and will change it next year when I change the oil again. I figure $40 a year for a couple liters of tranny fluid is a reasonable maintenance cost for a transmission.

Gotrek · Aug 24, 2015

I changed mine once, drove 1000miles and change it again. I plan on doing it one more time.

After the first flush there was a noticeable improvement in shifting for me. So that's enough to make it worth it for me.

ranagon · Aug 25, 2016

This follows up on Commuterboy's observation that it took three drain-and-fill cycles to actually change the ATF in a 09A.

My first MK4 was an '01 New Beetle, with an ALH and a 01M automatic transmission.

When I bought it, it didn't start.

There wasn't any coolant in the reservoir, the front end bushings were so shot so bad the nose was dragging on the ground, and the real problem according to the previous owner was that when it was running, it wouldn't go over 35 mph.

O-rings in the VE pump got it to start.

When I filled the cooling system, it turned into a chocolate milk shake.

I drove it until it wouldn't move, and then realized that the transmission cooler must be the problem. I replaced the cooler and drained the transmission. The stuff in the transmission looked just like the stuff in the cooling system.

Given that you really can't cleanly flush the transmission, drain-and-refill is a kind of a bypass operation.

It took SEVEN drain-and-refill cycles before I had nice pink ATF coming out of the overflow tube (instead of milky looking stuff).

I used Castrol Import ATF from Autozone. Even at $18(?) a gallon, that still a lot of investment.

But it worked. I've put 20,000 miles on it since. The transmission operates ok, and has nice shift-snap to it. (I know ... I lucked out.)

ranagon

jettawreck · Aug 26, 2016

ranagon said:
This follows up on Commuterboy's observation that it took three drain-and-fill cycles to actually change the ATF in a 09A.

My first MK4 was an '01 New Beetle, with an ALH and a 01M automatic transmission.

When I bought it, it didn't start.

There wasn't any coolant in the reservoir, the front end bushings were so shot so bad the nose was dragging on the ground, and the real problem according to the previous owner was that when it was running, it wouldn't go over 35 mph.

O-rings in the VE pump got it to start.

When I filled the cooling system, it turned into a chocolate milk shake.

I drove it until it wouldn't move, and then realized that the transmission cooler must be the problem. I replaced the cooler and drained the transmission. The stuff in the transmission looked just like the stuff in the cooling system.

Given that you really can't cleanly flush the transmission, drain-and-refill is a kind of a bypass operation.

It took SEVEN drain-and-refill cycles before I had nice pink ATF coming out of the overflow tube (instead of milky looking stuff).

I used Castrol Import ATF from Autozone. Even at $18(?) a gallon, that still a lot of investment.

But it worked. I've put 20,000 miles on it since. The transmission operates ok, and has nice shift-snap to it. (I know ... I lucked out.)

ranagon

My experience with the 09A drain/fill was similar. I lost count, but did at least 7-10 cycles before the fluid looked like it was "supposed" to.
I drove it myself some before selling the 1.8 Jetta, but got feedback from the new owner and it was still performing fine.

Gotrek · Aug 26, 2016

I did mine and have been driving it since, I plan on changing it again this fall. It's good to not aggressively change all the fluid in an auto, you're adding detergent, that's pretty much what atf is. So it's good to replace it slowly if you managed to dump it all out it could dislodge things too quickly and lead to failure. I'll probably change mine again next year for the final time. Then drive another 200 000km

(kidding)

CommuterBoy · Jul 14, 2018

Follow up on the 09A. 200,000km now, changed the fluid as above at 100,000 km, did a drain and fill (3.5 - 4 l each time) at 125,000km, and 170,000 km with Castrol MV Atf. Will do again this summer.

Still shifts like butter, no shuddering, no problems so far.

shak911 · May 20, 2019

oilhammer said:
We use the Idemitsu brand ATF on these Jatco units. There is not anything weird about the ATF, is is the same stuff other Jatco slushboxes spec. Nissan calls it J-Matic, Mazda calls it M-III, Subaru calls it Type-HP. If Volkswagen wasn't so crazy nuts expensive with the stuff I wouldn't bother. But they are, so we've been using the Idemitsu stuff. We use the Type-HP.

It is a pretty garden variety Jatco box.

Truthfully I think any decent synthetic-based ATF would work fine in these. They just don't fail out of the blue all that much.

Oilhammer, I have 5 bottles of LIQUI MOLY 8100 (DSG atf) that I purchased for my 2012 Passat that I sold back to VW.

Would it be ok to use on the 09A box ? to save few $

oilhammer · May 21, 2019

Absolutely not.

shak911 · May 21, 2019

oilhammer said:
Absolutely not.

thank you

Flush or drain the transmission?

oilhammer

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Marisa05MKIV

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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor

Marisa05MKIV

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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor

jettawreck

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Gotrek

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Marisa05MKIV

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CommuterBoy

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Gotrek

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ranagon

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jettawreck

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Gotrek

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CommuterBoy

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shak911

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oilhammer

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shak911

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