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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old December 18th, 2010, 06:46   #61
El Dobro
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
Winter fronts have only been available for MKIV cars. And they're all gone, obseleted by VW. We got our last two for the Golf last week, no more Jetta.
There was a dealer in Canada that had winter fronts for the Mk5, but I don't think he has them anymore.
I believe it was this place.
http://www.southgate-vw.ca/Service/A...rts.aspx?lng=2
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Old December 18th, 2010, 06:56   #62
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Originally Posted by frugality View Post
There is less air going through a TDI intake (intercooler included) than a gasser intake. Our cars get better mileage because they get more 'bang' for the amount of fuel and air. At highway speed, our TDI's will be turning 2000rpm. A similar 2.0T gasser will be higher, say 3000rpm. With the same displacement (and boost), the gasser will be flowing 50% more air.

How it's throttled is a separate matter.
Actually, how it's throttled is everything in this situation.

In a gasoline engine car, your right foot is directly controlling the amount of air that is being allowed into the engine. The RPM is being controlled by the amount of air being allowed through the engine. The engine computer simpy provides a metered amount of fuel based on how much air the throttle is allowing through.

At idle the intake is mostly closed and very little air is allowed into the engine. On the highway in your scenario you would likely be a relatively light throttle, maybe 1/4 or so. That means that the intake was only 1/4 of the way open, so only 1/4 or so as much air as possible would be flowing through the engine.

On a diesel engine your right foot controlls the amount of fuel going into the engine. The amount of fuel going into the engine controls the RPM. The intake is wide open at all times, so the maximum amount of air possible is always being pumped through the engine at any given RPM in a diesel, even at idle.

The only time the gas engine's intake is wide open is when the driver is giving full throttle. So, unless you are going full throttle on the highway at 3,000 RPM, the gasser would not be drawing 50% more air through the engine. It would most likely be drawing less air than the diesel, because it's probably at relatively light throttle to maintain speed, meaning the intake is probably 60-80% closed. Meanwhile, the diesel intake is wide open, as always, so it's engine is pumping the maximum amount of air it can.

Obviously at light throttle the turbo won't be spooled up, so you will get some air increase during higher loads in a turbo diesel, but the same is true of a turbo gasoline engine.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 07:02   #63
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It 20F outside. I have a cold. And I don't feel like plugging in the Salamander to heat up the garage and crawl under my new car. I let you guys figure out how to fix this, I'm gonna go play GT5 on my PS3.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 07:28   #64
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Originally Posted by El Dobro View Post
Yep, #5 on the passenger side is where the goop accumulates. The hose on the driver's side where it attaches to the intercooler is where the oil usually drips.
That would jive with my theory that there is dead space in the intercooler itself that is causing the problem. It would then "leak" out exactly where you are describing. Just a guess, but I bet $5 that you could swap that intercooler out for a better design and no more problemo.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 07:31   #65
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Originally Posted by ChippedNotBroken View Post
but I bet $5 that you could swap that intercooler out for a better design and no more problemo.
Which means VW would never do it unless forced to. The cost of this times the number of TDIs on the road = never going to spend the money.

This will go unresolved by VW. Mark my words.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 07:38   #66
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Originally Posted by GraniteRooster View Post
I hesitate to respond to the sky is falling comments, however, there is a difference between minor quibbles and major design flaws that cause totaling of an engine with no advance warning, or for the car to fail to operate in routine weather conditions. We paid a lot of money for these cars, and it is reasonable at this point in the history of automobile design to have well know issues such as intake icing resolved.
I fail to see how ANYONE with one of these cars should not be EXTREMELY concerned about water damaging their engine due to this issue. If you drive in humid wintry conditions, I can tell you from experience that this problem is real, and happens often. 1 cup or more of water sitting in your intake at startup is a disaster waiting to happen - you can't argue it any other way.
Since the sky is not falling, I guess I will go back to being blissfully stupid about the operation of my car. And I will refrain from posting my concerns or sharing my experience here, I don't want to aggravate anyone by discussing something that isn't a real problem. I'm sure I should be appeased by draining my cooler hoses every chance I get, and happy when my engine grenades in a year or two when its out of warranty because VW's intake was sucking melt-water straight in. After all, I got my warranty period out of the car right? Thats what I paid for after all. No reason I should expect a $25k car to last more than 60k miles.
Going back in the hole I crawled out from - thanks TDICLUB - over and out.
Im on your side bud I agree its a problem and it does piss me off...I am thankful you posted in the mk6 forum I don't really check mk5 section that much....I drive in nasty weather on my commute all the time and just "dealing" with the sludge and trying to ignore it is not the answer..
I will be pulling my IC hose today for a look.
If I find crap in there I will be filing a complaint to vw..the more exposer this gets the better chance vw might try to come up with a fix.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 07:48   #67
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Originally Posted by 53 willys View Post
I will be pulling my IC hose today for a look.
If I find crap in there I will be filing a complaint to vw..the more exposer this gets the better chance vw might try to come up with a fix.
Mmmmmm, Utah heh? I'd be shocked if you had this issue. While it may get cold there I doubt you see anywhere near the moisture we see here in the NE.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 07:55   #68
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Originally Posted by Big_Tb17 View Post
On a diesel engine your right foot controlls the amount of fuel going into the engine. The amount of fuel going into the engine controls the RPM. The intake is wide open at all times, so the maximum amount of air possible is always being pumped through the engine at any given RPM in a diesel, even at idle.
On the new CR engine, the intake has valves that control the air. They vary the air flow, depending on the engine's needs.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 08:51   #69
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Well I guess this would explain the rough start and hard idle a few mornings ago at about 2 degrees F. Great. My dealer is terrible and my back/neck is in terrible shape so I cannot get under there to drain it right now...
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Old December 18th, 2010, 09:29   #70
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Originally Posted by El Dobro View Post
On the new CR engine, the intake has valves that control the air. They vary the air flow, depending on the engine's needs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's used for emission control in conjunction with the EGR system, not for modulation based on engine needs.

On topic, I only have 3,900 miles on my 2010 Golf so far, but I may check my intercooler hoses later today if I get a chance. I'll post the results if I do.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 09:46   #71
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Originally Posted by Big_Tb17 View Post
Actually, how it's throttled is everything in this situation.

In a gasoline engine car, your right foot is directly controlling the amount of air that is being allowed into the engine. The RPM is being controlled by the amount of air being allowed through the engine. The engine computer simpy provides a metered amount of fuel based on how much air the throttle is allowing through.

At idle the intake is mostly closed and very little air is allowed into the engine. On the highway in your scenario you would likely be a relatively light throttle, maybe 1/4 or so. That means that the intake was only 1/4 of the way open, so only 1/4 or so as much air as possible would be flowing through the engine.

On a diesel engine your right foot controlls the amount of fuel going into the engine. The amount of fuel going into the engine controls the RPM. The intake is wide open at all times, so the maximum amount of air possible is always being pumped through the engine at any given RPM in a diesel, even at idle.

The only time the gas engine's intake is wide open is when the driver is giving full throttle. So, unless you are going full throttle on the highway at 3,000 RPM, the gasser would not be drawing 50% more air through the engine. It would most likely be drawing less air than the diesel, because it's probably at relatively light throttle to maintain speed, meaning the intake is probably 60-80% closed. Meanwhile, the diesel intake is wide open, as always, so it's engine is pumping the maximum amount of air it can.

Obviously at light throttle the turbo won't be spooled up, so you will get some air increase during higher loads in a turbo diesel, but the same is true of a turbo gasoline engine.
Great post! This is exactly the difference between an air-throttled stoich engine like a gas engine, and a fuel-throttled variable AFR engine like a diesel.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 10:03   #72
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Originally Posted by El Dobro View Post
On the new CR engine, the intake has valves that control the air. They vary the air flow, depending on the engine's needs.
As I understand it, the valves in the intake plenum close off one of the two intake ports to increase air swirl in the cylinder under some low load conditions. So it probably does not really affect cylinder filling.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 10:03   #73
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So one of you guys with a MKV or VI should get a scan gauge, record IATs in varying conditions, block off half the IC/radiator sandwich, and see if they change. IATs in the summer will run 100+ degrees. If you got them up into that range in winter I bet you wouldn't have any moisture accumulation. And blocking off half the IC should be easy. Sheet of cardboard would do it if you don't mind being a bit ghetto.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 10:11   #74
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
So one of you guys with a MKV or VI should get a scan gauge, record IATs in varying conditions, block off half the IC/radiator sandwich, and see if they change. IATs in the summer will run 100+ degrees. If you got them up into that range in winter I bet you wouldn't have any moisture accumulation. And blocking off half the IC should be easy. Sheet of cardboard would do it if you don't mind being a bit ghetto.

Unfortunately Scangauge II won't report IAT on a the 09-10 (don't know about 11), at least not that I can get working (just reports null), I even sent mine back to have the firmware upgraded so I could use the XGauge customizations. I tried a whole variety of XGauge codings and still cannot get MAP, IAT. Only temp I've been able to get is Water Temp.

If you know something I don't, I'd love to hear it as I'd really like to have MAP, IAT, EGT and oil temp.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 10:20   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Tb17 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's used for emission control in conjunction with the EGR system, not for modulation based on engine needs.
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Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
As I understand it, the valves in the intake plenum close off one of the two intake ports to increase air swirl in the cylinder under some low load conditions. So it probably does not really affect cylinder filling.
You are absolutely correct, it has very little effect on overall flow volume and is not intended to throttle airflow. It's well detailed and diagrammed in the VW Self Study Guide (page 9, Flap Valve Function), see excerpt below.

Flap Valve Function
During idling and at low engine speeds, the flap valves are closed. This leads to high swirl formation, with results in good mixture formation.
During driving operation, the flap valves are adjusted continuously based on the load and engine speed. Thus for each operating range the optimum air movement is available.

Starting at an engine speed of approximately 3000 rpm, the flap valves are completely open. The increased throughput of air insures good filling of the combustion chamber.
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