5 Speed manual conversion update

Frans said:

The DQS gearboxes are not the best ever made btw..
Don't get to focussed onto a gearbox code and it's ratios.

Click to expand...

The only major issues with the 6 speeds are the pinion bearing, of which many were installed from the factory with too much preload, over time this will roast the pinion bearing.
If you are making over 400 ft/lbs then the only option is the 6 speed, as the 012 will grenade with a bit of abuse over 350 ft/lbs.*

nvr-enuf said:

I debated over 5 speed vs 6 speed and found that a 6 speed purchased from the UK is around $325.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind the cheap 6 speeds often have bad pinion bearings, you might get lucky and get a used one but it's been my experience that every sub $800 6 speed is in need of work.

vwztips said:

IIRC it was a Sachs VR6 pressure plate with a Sachs disc using a 23 spline connection. Also had a 5# lighter flywheel which did not help. IMHO

Click to expand...

What torque is your TDtuning tune supposed to be making? I know the RC2 tunes really jump it up in the B4s especially with bigger nozzles which is sort of cost prohibitive in a PD.

Per Mike at TDTuning should be pushing close to 300 ft/lbs

vwztips said:

Per Mike at TDTuning should be pushing close to 300 ft/lbs

Click to expand...

That's substantial. Does the Valeo setup your using have a rating?

After replacing everything except my transmission, My 2005 TDI passat wagon is still shaking like a wet dog. I suspect it may be something internal in the transmission possibly the torque converter so I think it may be time to just do a 5sp swap. I read through this thread pretty quick and from what i gather, a V6 5sp is the best choice US sourced transmission. Would just using that transmission without any mods results in better mpg than the auto? I could always do the gear change at a later date.

I do have a 2004 Passat TDI 6sp 01E on the way from the UK but, that will be used in a custom mid engine project i have planned. For my Passat TDI i would like to use all US sourced parts even if the ratios are not the most ideal. Anyone have a complete list of what all I should be trying to buy? I would like to try to get a whole package deal from someone parting out a passat rather than buy a little here and there.

Thanks
Mike

Mike, I will PM you

Update: Well I replaced the slipping clutch with a brand new one from Valeo back in January. As soon as I put it in and bled bled the clutch I noticed the pedal felt different. It was not disengaging so high as the prior one. there was some slack at the top before it would start disengaging (a good thing). and it had good travel down the middle and felt great.... I thought this was going to be the end of that.... I was wrong...
I was away for a about 6 weeks and my wife was driving the car. She put on around 6000km in this time. When I drove it yesterday I noticed the clutch was disengaging really high again. I asked the wife and she said she also noticed that the pedal had changed to which she described it got easier to push. This is something she failed to tell me prior to me driving it... Good news is there is no clutch slipping yet but I know something is not right... Im going to bleed them again and see if maybe there is air getting into the system... Its as if the clutch is getting pushed down slightly. Im not sure if air in the system would even cause this issue.. Shoot some other ideas at me here to help me diagnose this.

The flex plate for the automatic has a spacer between it and the face of the crank. Did you install it between the flywheel and crank?

I recall there being two spacers. One on each side of the flex plate. One thin and one thicker. When I checked etka I did not see the spacers used for any manual applications. So I did not install it. Would this cause this ?

I think it would if you had installed the spacer.
On a couple it has taken a few times to get all the air out. One had a bad slave cylinder. Frankly, in my expereince some cars have higher pedals than others.

My factory built 5spd Passat TDI has always had a very high pedal, even with the stock clutch/flywheel.

Ok good. You had me a little worried that I did not put the spacer in .
I bled the slave last night and had some air come out. The pedal changed a bit. I now have the half inch of free play between the top and where i can feel the bearing if I push it with my hand. Prior to this I could feel the bearing spinning by just placing my hand on it. I have a spare FHN I can pull a slave from and swap it out and see if maybe the slave is pulling air in some how.
The clutch is still just as high.. it might have moved down a little bit....

The clutch that was "slipping" that I replaced had alot of meat left on it which brings me to believe the air was in there and causing to push on the bearing slightly causing the slip instead of the clutch being worn out.

BTW, there is no spacer between my DHL 012 trans and the block.

Thanks. Jfettig ... by high I mean mine starts engaging the clutch at around 3/4 of the pedal up. how does this compare to your guys?

1inch from the top

Hmmm sounds the same then. Thanks I feel a little more at ease now lol

Does anyone know off the top of their head which clutch switch I should be using in my 05? I Just added the clutch and manual brake pedals the other night, slowly swapping things over. I noticed that the clutch switchs(plural) seem to be an older style. The pedals came out of a 2000 model and looking at the parts catalog it shows a different part number for 02-05. Also, by re-designing this switch did they eliminate, or better incorporate the starter kill switch within the one design? Or do I still need to run the kill switch off of the 2000 pedal assembly?


Thanks in advance.

newlitemotorist said:

Does anyone know off the top of their head which clutch switch I should be using in my 05? I Just added the clutch and manual brake pedals the other night, slowly swapping things over. I noticed that the clutch switchs(plural) seem to be an older style. The pedals came out of a 2000 model and looking at the parts catalog it shows a different part number for 02-05. Also, by re-designing this switch did they eliminate, or better incorporate the starter kill switch within the one design? Or do I still need to run the kill switch off of the 2000 pedal assembly?


Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

The pedals themselves don't dictate which switches you use. The pedal cluster assembly or the housing does. The neutral start safety switch is the same between '00 and '04 but the cruise control interrupt isn't. A Mk IV CC switch is the same but I don't recall specifically which years. Personally I used one from an '04 and it was a direct fit. You're still stuck with two switches.

mogly said:

The pedals themselves don't dictate which switches you use. The pedal cluster assembly or the housing does. The neutral start safety switch is the same between '00 and '04 but the cruise control interrupt isn't. A Mk IV CC switch is the same but I don't recall specifically which years. Personally I used one from an '04 and it was a direct fit. You're still stuck with two switches.

Click to expand...

Yes I figured it was the pedal bracket that dictated which switches to use. I grabbed the entire assembly out of the 2000 model and my bracket is slightly different. Mine takes twist-in style switches while the older bracket takes screw in...if that makes sense. The brake and clutch switches on the older bracket are threaded for adjustment while my brake pedal switch adjusts automatically to the pedal height once you twist it into place. So the little black plunger switch that is located higher up the pedal bracket is the "neutral safety switch" and that I will use off the older bracket. Its the cruise interrupt switch that is located next to the brake pedal switch this is different. Got it! Is there a quick and dirty on how to wire these two switches in? I do not have a bently manual atm. Have never needed one because of informative sites such as this....lol

I take the pedals from the older bracket and install them in the bracket in the car. I do this because I like the newer switches for the brake and clutch. The clutch switch I use is 6Q0 927 189. It inserts and twist to secure it.

You really need a Bentley to do something like this so you know what you are doing.

**CAUTION** I take no responsibility if you take the following advice and mess something up! You have to pick pick up 12V power for one side and the other goes to pin #43 on the large connector on the ECU. I splice into the red/white wire on the oriange connecotr at the ECU as that is where the Bentley shows the tap if it came from the factory with a manual. If not performed correctly and you run the cruise, when the clutch pedal is pushed, the engine may/will redline!!!!

You can also follow Uberhare's instruction in his post which is different and he elected not to have the starter interlock functioning.

I opted for a single switch. It came out of a 2001ish Jetta with the pigtail. You just need to jump the relay socket for the interlock switch.

In the interest of safety - I don't recommend this but clutch interlock switches always annoyed me anyway.

I am teaching my kids to drive a stick so it is not an option for me. It's not much harder to wire the interlock vs. the jumper.

Could somebody be kind enough to post the complete list of parts that need to look for in the local junkyards for this swap. I already have the transmission. What cars are good donors for these parts? I was thinking 2000-2005 Passat 1.8T/Audi A4 with manual transmission.

The clutch/flywheel combo I intent to buy new.

vwztips said:

Tikal, you pretty much have it correct. You will need the needle bearing for the end of the crank. All conversion parts for the 5 speed can be found in the junkyard (pedals, linkage, hydraulic line for clutch, axles from 2000 up).


You have to make your own wiring connections. Under the dash it is all for the clutch (for the interlock and cruise) which Bentley maual will show you which wires have to go where. The only wires in the engine bay are for the back up lights to work.

It is a lot of fun to drive. I put some LRR 15" tires and rims on and my MPG around town has jumped to 34 from 32. Could possibly be better if I could keep my foot out of it

I have a couple of conversions I am working on will be up for sale soon.

Click to expand...

I have a list for 6 speed in the thread found in my signature. The 5 speed list is very similar, except no spacer and reuse your starter.

Uberhare said:

I have a list for 6 speed in the thread found in my signature. The 5 speed list is very similar, except no spacer and reuse your starter.

Click to expand...

Thank you Uberhare. So I would get the axles from a similar year Passat 1.8T manual (or Audi)? What are your thoughts about the tradeoffs between a new flywheel/clutch from a NA gasser Passat/Audi vs. a used flywheel/clutch from a compatible European Passat/Audi TDI?

For the 5 speed you can get axles, shift linkage, clutch line, pedals, and passenger side tranny bracket from any 2000-2005 1.8t or V6 manual passat. You need the drivers side tranny bracket from the v6 manual gearbox. The 1.8t will not work.

vwztips said:

...You have to pick pick up 12V power for one side and the other goes to pin #43 on the large connector on the ECU...

Click to expand...

My manual is on order but don't have it in hand yet.

Uberhare says the ECU pin for the clutch is #65 HERE. This is one of the last details for my first B5.5 manual swap. Curious why the competing info?

Thanks in advance,

My preference is to wire it the way the factory would have which uses pin #43 (see Bentley manual schematic). I also prefer not to cut into the harness which controls the DBW throttle pedal. Lastly I do want the clutch interlock switch wired in for safety purposes, again, as the factory would wire it.

I have not tried Uberhare's method, but assume it works. Bottom line for me is that if someone has to troubleshoot, they could follow the Bentley wiring diagram if using pin #43.

I agree, thanks for the quick response. That 5 speed looks so nice in there, can't wait for the test drive.

Hmmm. Sorry guys have to double check what I did next time the hood is open. Pin #66 is the euro ecu, pin #43 would be correct for BHW. I would use pin#43 as per VWZIPS after just looking at both wiring diagrams. It could be I confused my notes with the PD130 swap I worked on.