TDI Engines "600 to 700k" says VW

IF it's actually VW who makes that claim (and it's not just the opinion of some journalist for The Golf) I'd love to read the fine print explaining how that figure was arrived at! The engine block could probably remain within specs for that long, but really, the turbo and every other bit of peripheral hardware along with most of the other components in the car could hardly be expected to survive w/o repair/replacement for that period of use. 600-700,000 miles on a single water pump, a/c compressor, turbocharger, etc... Sounds like wishful thinking to me!

blue909

It's a shame that VW can't manage to make a decent timing belt design, or EGR system, or intake manifold system, or intercooler, or electrical system, to match the basic TDI engine.

"In the latest "The Golf" magazine VW is quoted saying that the expected longevity for TDI motors is 600 to 700,000 miles."

Saw this over on the Vortex:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum22/HTML/001148.html

I've heard 300-500k-so this is pretty cool!!! Of Course the body won't last that long (at least not here in Michigan).....

With gentle use and clean synthetic oils that is possible. Probably very optimistic in the real world, thoough, especially if you drive like me!

300K is quite realistic for any well built engine; even gassers will go that long (or more) with careful maintainance and gentle use. It's all relative.

-mickey

Maybe the new TDI's could do those miles but I doubt the older 96-98 Passats and Jettas would with the Bosch rotary injection pumps. If one of these puppies go your looking at big $$. It would actually be a better deal to find a salvage TDI engine and replace the pump rather than purchasing the pump seperately. Besides, the fuel quality and PVC system would not allow these specified miles of longevity. Under the conditions that Blue909 mentioned might be doable but I still think an expensive pump r&r or reman. will be necessary along the way and most likely twice which really makes it cost prohibitive not counting labor sucking items such as injectors,water pumps,ECU,rear main seals,cam seal,crank seal,intermediate shaft seal,etc.

Hey blue, all is not lost on an older vehicle when the seats, carpet, paint etc. start getting "old".

There is a place in the Los Angeles area that specializes in leather seats with the side airbags for new VWs that include the head rests for around $800. I know that complete carpet kits of the cheap quality that came with my NB are available for a few hundred and if you want the really nice German square weave wool it's a few hundred more. Put the new seat covers on and the carpet and then get a new paint job and your car is lookin' good again.

Fixing the A/C or the other electrical items of course are par for the course but if you had no payment you could easily afford a few grand a year to keep the car nice couldn't you?

csimo makes a good point too...

Besides, even under careful normal use, the interior, exterior trim, etc... would be quite hosed and no fun to use anymore (with the exception of cars belonging to extreme compulsives of course). The TDI engine may be hardy (but imagine the total cost of all the timing belt changes over that period of time!) but there's nothing particularly long-lived about a Golf (Jetta, NB, etc...) versus any other small, reasonably well-made european car.

IMHO, any good miles (those not costing too much in terms on ongoing maintenance/repair costs) beyond the 150K mark are gravy and I plan to enjoy every one.

blue909

"Maybe the new TDI's could do those miles but I doubt the older 96-98 Passats and Jettas would with the Bosch rotary injection pumps."
What is the difference? ALL North American TDIs so far have the Bosch rotary injection pump. With adequate fuel lubricity, the Bosch rotary fuel pump should be quite long lived indeed. By the time a few of our TDIs might be needing fuel pumps, there will be a good supply of used/rebuilt Bosch TDI fuel pumps around. A few years ago, old diesel Rabbit rebuilt fuel pumps could be had for about US$250 to US$400. New ones cost about US$1200 to US$1500.
Actually, I would be more concerned about blown head gaskets than I would about diesel fuel pumps.

Well, hmmm. With my '99 NB TDI having been to the dealer countless times for various (mostly non-engine related) maladies...the dealer's (only dealer in town) complete ignorance on the TDI...with my intercooler/intake probably completely gunked-up at 35K miles, mileage worse than new, power down... heck my '92 Ducati motorcycle (with 37K miles) has been a better ownership experience!

Hello CarsWanted, I disagree with you on the longevity of the fuel pumps because they have seals that will eventually fail due to hardening and degradation. I got confirmation on this from the local Bosch service center in Wilmington,CA. They are saying that when these units get over 100K miles they are prone. I do agree with you on the head gasket scenario. As far as the newer TDI's having rotary pumps, I wasn't sure so I didn't include them but did remember reading some significant improvements from past posts. I did however,fail to include the turbocharger in my above post so I guess we can add that to the list of prone pre 600K-700K items. Later!

With regard to TDI pump longevity, I would expect all other factors being equal, the 96-99.5 models would last as long if not longer due to the higher pressure of the newer models. Higher pressure=higher loads.
My 87TD went 230k miles & was sold running w/original pump, body rusted out...I expect my 97TDI to do as well or better w/out pump problems. Time will tell
(edit)
Actually, I replaced the throttle shaft seal in my 87's pump at some point, and that has been eliminated in the TDI's with the electronics, so one less place to leak.

[ April 24, 2001: Message edited by: MacGyver ]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by csimo:
It's a shame that VW can't manage to make a decent timing belt design, or EGR system, or intake manifold system, or intercooler, or electrical system, to match the basic TDI engine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's a little harsh. I mean we are talking about a $17,000 car here. Not a $45,000 Mercedes. I feel like I got my money's worth and then some. I think some folks expect an Audi at VW prices here.

I, too, wish that the EGR and intercooler gooping up were not an issue but I don't think it is entirely Volkswagen's fault. As for the timing belt, it's fine. A chain or gear drive would have been alot noiser and cost-prohibitive in manufacturing. It makes sense on a 1-ton diesel truck. I know Mercedes diesel have a chain, they are also alot noiser (at least the old ones) and more expensive to buy and repair. I wish the belt wasn't an issue, but VW made a decision there based on economics. Thats the way it goes with a car in this price class.

What's wrong with the intake manifold. Do you think you could design a better one for the same money. Go ahead, break out your CAD program and show us what you can do

I haven't had any electrical problems at all. Have you?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Harvieux:
Maybe the new TDI's could do those miles but I doubt the older 96-98 Passats and Jettas would with the Bosch rotary injection pumps. If one of these puppies go your looking at big $$. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Got news for ya, the 1999.5 and later models use the same identical pump! The only real difference was the block casting was changed and compression increased to 19.5:1 from the A3's 18.5:1 ratio. That plus the turbo change from GT to VNT.

There are a bunch of other chnages but the basic principal of the TDI is the exact same. I would suspect the newer TDI's to be more critical in terms of the type and quality of oil used due to the top compression ring being closer to the crown in the A4 series.

The biggest change has yet to come. The reason for the block changes was so that VW could use a common block with the PD motors in Europe. When the PD makes it's way over here all they will do is drop the pump and head currently in use and bolt on a PD head and the injector units.


DB