Performance Options

2015 golf tdi sel automatic is the car in quesiton.

I plan on doing the rawtek performance delete kit with only a high flow cat in the dp. After that I am stumped. I had an mk4 golf tdi with a stage 3 rocketchip tune and i loved it. Does Jeff offer bigger tunes for the mk7 cr150 platform?

Next, is the cr190 turbo like the cr170 turbo to the cr140 platform? Malone's website says they gave up on the cr190 turbo. Why? Was it just laggy? Does it kill fuel economy/was is daily driveable? Can the stock auto handle the bigger turbo?

I dont plan on doing anything further besides the typical intake, better ic plumbing etc. Any insight on this platform/topic would be greatly appreciated.

Leave it alone, enjoy the warranty, let the hidden issues of this new (and last) engine play out first.

If you really want to do something, software alone is all I'd go after for now.

Head over to the power enhancements threads, there are some that went big turbo on the mk7, it takes much logging and fine tuning, its not a simple "plug and play".

I think Malone is game with tuning a larger turbo, they just don't advertise it as it's not really for the faint at heart.

Also if you are spending the cash, swap the fuel pump for a CP3 before swapping the turbo, one less thing to worry about.

oilhammer said:

Leave it alone, enjoy the warranty, let the hidden issues of this new (and last) engine play out first.
If you really want to do something, software alone is all I'd go after for now.

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I am planning to leave my Golf TDI motor and transmission wise bone cold stock. My last VW TDI, I left stone cold stock and it served me well.

I wanted to find the 190-200 hp setup that the mk6 market has for the mk7. People that have gone big turbo also go big everything else. I just got off the phone with AARodriguez corp about the topic. I know for sure I am deleting all the emissions junk and doing a tune.

Will see how testing goes for a CR190 tune. Want to see how far we can stretch stock fuel/auto tranny out and still have the vw tdi reliability.

I only know of one guy here who has upgraded his mk7 turbo so far. He went to a GTD1752vrk, which is a really great turbo- but I don't know if I'd call it a "big turbo" . My bv43a (on mk6) is also an upgrade that the term big turbo doesn't describe very well, imo.

Turbobrick240 that is what I was thinking. Why are we going from either stock to big turbo?
I come from the diesel truck world so none of these turbos are big to me haha
Would rather mildly tune a cr190 turbo then push a stocker to its limits for years. Should be similar fueling up top. Also the tune can be adapted to allow the dsg tranny to survive and thrive. If the cr190 pulls in a sportwagen, I can only imagine what it could do in a car that is 250 lbs lighter

Also do the mk7 golf tdi dsg have launch control from the factory? or is that a euro thing?

Look at it this way. Otherwise stock ALH with a Rocketchip Stage 3 makes about 125 HP/225 Torque. Your '15 makes more HP and torque stock. And with a RC2 tune it'll make about 180/300. Do you really want to go for more?

If a bigger, better, and at that level prob more reliable turbo is only $850 more and it drops right in why not get it? Those numbers could go up to 200/350. And if tuned right the bigger turbo would prob get better fuel economy at cruising speeds. I had $3500 in a T4 kit and S472SX-E turbo for my truck. So $2750 for full delete, exhaust, turbo, and tune is nothing.

Was just trying to inquire what the real reason was no one runs the cr190. Was hoping maybe some people who are running it would chime in. I don’t believe it had that much boost creep.

STOKTDI said:

If a bigger, better, and at that level prob more reliable turbo is only $850 more and it drops right in why not get it? Those numbers could go up to 200/350. And if tuned right the bigger turbo would prob get better fuel economy at cruising speeds. I had $3500 in a T4 kit and S472SX-E turbo for my truck. So $2750 for full delete, exhaust, turbo, and tune is nothing.

Was just trying to inquire what the real reason was no one runs the cr190. Was hoping maybe some people who are running it would chime in. I don’t believe it had that much boost creep.

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Sounds like somebody has more money than brains to me.

Man Malone says right on his website..."CR190 Turbo. No longer available, because this turbo's performance is unsatisfactory: It is prone to boost creep (hardware limitation) and thus does not allow much more power without risking overboost. We recommend a bigger turbo with Stage 4 instead."

STOKTDI said:

If a bigger, better, and at that level prob more reliable turbo is only $850 more and it drops right in why not get it? Those numbers could go up to 200/350. And if tuned right the bigger turbo would prob get better fuel economy at cruising speeds. I had $3500 in a T4 kit and S472SX-E turbo for my truck. So $2750 for full delete, exhaust, turbo, and tune is nothing.

Was just trying to inquire what the real reason was no one runs the cr190. Was hoping maybe some people who are running it would chime in. I don’t believe it had that much boost creep.

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That's the problem, CR190 its not direct drop in and go, like the IS12-IS20-IS38 of the TSI world. To milk the power out of a larger turbo it takes more finesse in tuning and isn't direct plug and play.

Also I noticed you didn't mention DSG tune, or fluidampr, CP3 pump, convert A2W to A2A intercooler. Keep those in the back of you mind.

Also I had pretty bad DMF shudder on Malone Stage 2 1750-2000 RPMs in the DSG, a slightly detuned stage 2 fixed that, but you may be running into issues if you're pushing serious power you may have to sacrifice daily driving for max numbers.

Sound like you have the capital to do it right, by all means make a monster, you'll love it!

here's a good build thread

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=475589&highlight=mk7

MichaelB said:

Sounds like somebody has more money than brains to me.

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Sorry I can save from a couple paychecks and come up with 3k? No house payment, wife, or kids so how is that such a stretch?

740GLE said:

here's a good build thread

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=475589&highlight=mk7

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Thanks I will make sure to go through this build!

740GLE said:

Also I had pretty bad DMF shudder on Malone Stage 2 1750-2000 RPMs in the DSG, a slightly detuned stage 2 fixed that, but you may be running into issues if you're pushing serious power you may have to sacrifice daily driving for max numbers.

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I have heard about that shudder. Now is that under full throttle at those rpms or does that happen even at 2/3-3/4 throttle?

Properly tuned I don't think the DSG clutches should be a power limitation for most TDI builds. But the complexity of extracting more power out of modern, emissions controlled TDIs is far greater than it was for earlier TDIs.

If you're serious about having more power I'd consider an R32. Twice the HP of a TDI stock, and more headroom. Also AWD, if you like that kind of thing. I thought about an R32 before the '15s came back on the market, but have determined that big power doesn't do a lot for me. And although an R32 would make a great track day car, I can't afford to wreck one on the track and not feel it.

Start with tuning the TDI with stock hardware, including a DSG tune if you have one, and see what you think. You may find it's enough power to have fun with minimal expense. The first 20-30 HP bump is usually the least expensive.

The R or R32? Two different beasts.

I have always wanted a mk5 R32. People have done 420 crank hp in those with stock dsg. That would be around 350 ft lbs to the wheels. I understand our torque curve is drastically different. I just couldnt do the fuel economy. At least twice a month I drive 230 miles one way and 460 round trip. I would have to fill up on the way down, while im there, and on the way home haha

My dads 2015 passat tdi dsg tune is a million times better then his 2013 passat tdi was. Still, I plan on doing a dsg tune and by that time I want to decide if I am doing the cr190 turbo or not. Try to only pay for dsg tune once.

Meant R. Oops. Torque curve isn't that much different than a TDI on those because of the turbo. And you should see high 20s for MPG on a trip.

335d perhaps? People get crazy power out of those. With just a tune mine is probably making 330/505. And they're not expensive (to buy, at least). FE in the mid-30s is easy with emissions in place. 40ish with it removed.

STOKTDI said:

I have heard about that shudder. Now is that under full throttle at those rpms or does that happen even at 2/3-3/4 throttle?

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With the stock stage 2 tune from malone, it was greater than 3/4 peddle (as a guess). Granted if I had it in sport mode, the rpms were never in that band, and it was never an issue.

But seeing D is for Driving, we're never in sport mode, and I noticed it was very repeatable when merging on the highway or toll booths. It was repeatable but also avoidable.

With modified stage 2 tune, I don't notice it even WOT.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Meant R. Oops. Torque curve isn't that much different than a TDI on those because of the turbo. And you should see high 20s for MPG on a trip.

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Crazy mk7 R builds are our there, running mid 10's on E85 and creative turbo builds. 500hp and around 500trq isn't that uncommon anymore. Now that doesn't speak to longevity, but hey people gotta get their kicks.

740GLE said:

With the stock stage 2 tune from malone, it was greater than 3/4 peddle (as a guess). Granted if I had it in sport mode, the rpms were never in that band, and it was never an issue.
But seeing D is for Driving, we're never in sport mode, and I noticed it was very repeatable when merging on the highway or toll booths. It was repeatable but also avoidable.
With modified stage 2 tune, I don't notice it even WOT.

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I was running a stock clutch in my mk4 golf tdi. I could start a pull from 1500 rpm in 2nd and 3rd. 4th kind of slipped and 5th gear for sure slipped the clutch. If it is avoidable then I will just adapt my driving. My style is either putts around grandpa or all out pulls. Both styles should be okay in avoiding that problem.

CR190 is very much a drop in from an install perspective. Only need the OE outlet damper and TIP from the GTD. Tuning is the tricky spot as it's prone to boost creep. The GTD1752vrk is nowhere near as affordable, but darkside does have a kit now specifically for the MK7. I was sort of a tester for that and it took a bit to get the oil lines correct as the return needed to be pretty special and darkside came up with a fantastic piece. But the stock TIP is being used which is ideal and the stock charge pipe is used with just a long 2" 90deg silicone elbow. Tuning again is not ironed out as this is a new turbo on the CRUA, but it will only be a matter of time before it's ready. I'll post dyno numbers to my thread when it's all squared away. Turbo is capable of full boost by ~2k RPM

adjat84th said:

CR190 is very much a drop in from an install perspective. Only need the OE outlet damper and TIP from the GTD. Tuning is the tricky spot as it's prone to boost creep. The GTD1752vrk is nowhere near as affordable, but darkside does have a kit now specifically for the MK7. I was sort of a tester for that and it took a bit to get the oil lines correct as the return needed to be pretty special and darkside came up with a fantastic piece. But the stock TIP is being used which is ideal and the stock charge pipe is used with just a long 2" 90deg silicone elbow. Tuning again is not ironed out as this is a new turbo on the CRUA, but it will only be a matter of time before it's ready. I'll post dyno numbers to my thread when it's all squared away. Turbo is capable of full boost by ~2k RPM

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Great info! Can you elaborate on what is considered boost creep? Also any input on dsg shudder?

Any of the tuners could give a better response than I on what exactly causes the boost creep with that turbo since there can be several variables at play. In short, it's boost shooting higher than requested and can be attributed to quite a number of things.

DMF shudder is inevitable in either 6MT or DSG once you get near 300ft-lbs of torque (there's a reason even the GTD was held to 286ft-lbs in stock form). I can say that my car with stock turbo and stage 2 tune would shudder in 4th-6th if you punched it below 2k RPM. A larger turbo like a GTB2260 may not see shudder since the peak torque is moved higher in the rev range. For me, I went with a stronger clutch and SMF 13k miles ago in prep for my turbo upgrade (my modification list is in my profile). A fluidampr is considered a must along with any SMF to help absorb some torsional vibrations. Not sure how that looks on a DSG car though, but I had seen last year one of our TDIclub vendors post on their instagram an SMF install for DSG and I'd be curious how that turned out! Pretty sure it was German Diesel Motorwerks. The DSG is also very capable of holding much more power without needing an upgrade, the shudder being able to be tuned around sounds like the way to go as well!

If in (D) drive and in 4-6th gear, the dsg should simply downshift if you simply stomp it down at or below 2k rpm? Wouldnt that eliminate the shudder?

My 7.3 powerstroke I bought tunes from one of the top three tuners in the market. Tranny gave out couple months later. Started running tunes from a small operation and my next tranny lasted with more upgrades to the motor. Auto trannies all come down to tuning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B05FIu77jZw

Is this something that every tdi golf can do?

STOKTDI said:

If in (D) drive and in 4-6th gear, the dsg should simply downshift if you simply stomp it down at or below 2k rpm? Wouldnt that eliminate the shudder?

My 7.3 powerstroke I bought tunes from one of the top three tuners in the market. Tranny gave out couple months later. Started running tunes from a small operation and my next tranny lasted with more upgrades to the motor. Auto trannies all come down to tuning.

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If the RPMs are above 2K you're right, but in my case I was able to get the shudder with a linear squeezing of the peddle, the DSG didn't down shift. The torque came on too fast for the DSG to down shift in D.

If kept in sport mode, you'd prob never even know there was ever an issue.