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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old February 6th, 2020, 19:22   #1
hallkbrdz
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Default BWF v10 oil in 2020

I bought a high-mileage 2006 v10 Touareg in August last year with a Malone tune for gutted DPFs. Looking at the manual, I then bought 505.01 5w40 Pentosin oil twice, changing it right after I bought it (along with pretty much every other fluid in the thing), then after another 6K a few weeks ago. It's running great, awesome tow and GT vehicle.

On another forum, another new 2006 v10 owner recently asked what to use. I told him what I'm running - and was immediately scolded by a long-time member for being so stupid as to use that oil, and that it was also the wrong weight and that I should be running 506.01 at 5w30 weight. Alrighty then...

Now, I'm not a young kid, and I've owned quite a few vehicles. OK, maybe 506.01 was better than the original VW 505.01 - but since it apparently does not come as 40 weight, I am very skeptical about using a 30 weight oil in a high compression engine that originally came filled with 40 weight, especially in the southern US, not northern Europe. Hell, my AWP 1.8t gasser takes 0w40 oil (maybe that's wrong now too - LOL)! Anything thinner screams fuel millage at a cost of your engine with a diesel to me.

So - I've read the what oil to use sticky. I've read the huge long PD thread (mostly not v10 engines), plus numerous others till my head spins. But I want to know since that was posted (and maybe updated) - are the current 2020 formulations of the Mobil 1 TDT oil still a good (better) choice (in the 5w40 weight of course) for this oddball gear-driven engine? I know there were changes with Shell T6, etc, but want some honest real world feedback - not do whatever VW says just because feedback.

Thanks, and please don't shoot me for asking
Bryan
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Last edited by hallkbrdz; February 6th, 2020 at 19:25.
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Old February 7th, 2020, 08:48   #2
compu_85
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FWIW, I was using M1 TDT in our V10 when the cams went flat.

-J
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Old February 7th, 2020, 09:42   #3
tikal
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To the OP. Another logical tool that is well respected in the TDI community (and elsewhere) is the Lubrizol Relative Performance Tool: https://www.lubrizol.com/en/Lubrican...rformance-Tool

Here is what it shows as a comparison of VW 506.01 spec vs VW 507 spec:




To me it shows that the 507 oil for wear is the most robust (or as robust as the VW 506.01 spec plus more improvements). In my opinion there is more to an engine oil than just the viscosity by the numbers in the bottle. The rigor of the approved spec matters most (what type of synthetic oil, additives, etc.).

The VW 507 oils has been used for sometime in TDIs PD in Europe that had DPF (or not) much before it came to North America post 2007. You can do your own research of course and choose the oil that makes you comfortable for your 2006 v10 Touareg TDI.
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Old February 11th, 2020, 14:42   #4
Matt-98AHU
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Here's how I approach it. 2006-08 V10s, having DPFs, need to have low ash/mid to low SAPS for the DPF, but being a 2V/cyl PD, they're prone to wearing cams.

The weight alone isn't the end all be all for wear protection, but it certainly helps. VW got really weird about using 5w30 for their DPF-equipped cars. They will not certify a thicker oil for those vehicles. But, their German brothers at Mercedes and BMW have, however. BMW LL-03 and 04, MB 229.51 are all specs that allow 30 and 40 weight oils to meet their specs and considered DPF safe. So, researching what oils are better protecting on THAT list isn't necessarily a bad thing. Does it technically meet the specs VW laid out? No. But there's plenty of these roaming around that wore cams out regardless of the oil spec.

The homework I've done, I landed on using Red Line Performance Formula Euro Series 5w40 for the later V10s. The caveat is that Red Line doesn't submit their Performance Formula for official approval to specifications laid out by automakers, they have their "Professional Series" that does, however. But the Professional Series does NOT use the unique basestock blend that makes the Performance Series attractive.

With that being said, the list of specs on the Euro Series 5w40 includes 505.01, BMW LL-04 and MB 229.51 as being compatible (not certified to, but compatible with, or the other slightly misleading term "meets or exceeds..").

I bring this up because I would not use this oil if there were any warranty concerns at the dealer. But given the age of these engines now, that's not going to be an issue. Research what protects the best and use it because the camshafts are poorly designed and are prone to wear even using oil that meets the official specs.

Red Line's basestock uses a blend of Group IV PAO and, more interestingly, Group V POE (Polyolester). It's the Group V esters that give it the real unique protection among other interesting properties. The oil has also shown to greatly slow down carbon build up in the intake ports of many direct injected gas engines.

The only real downside is the price. It is not cheap oil. But you know what's really not cheap? Paying someone to replace the camshafts on a V10... It's a ridiculously time consuming job with eye-watering parts prices.

After I replaced the cams on my BKW and broke it in with some Driven BR diesel oil, it's been running on Red Line Performance Formula 5w40. It's also helped smooth the engine out (along with frequent use of Stanadyne fuel additives). Those esters can work wonders in helping to clean sludge and free up rings, too.

Long story short, the VW specs are NOT the end all be all for out of warranty engines. And you can draw your own conclusions with the overlap of some oils certified for similar duties with BMW and Mercedes diesel engines equipped with DPFs but allow thicker weights. My suggestion is to search out diesel oils (need to be designed to suspend soot appropriately) that have been found to be extra robust with wear protection since these engines are prone to the camshaft wear--including when using certified to spec oil.
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Old February 11th, 2020, 14:48   #5
casioqv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt-98AHU View Post
Here's how I approach it. 2006-08 V10s, having DPFs, need to have low ash/mid to low SAPS for the DPF, but being a 2V/cyl PD, they're prone to wearing cams.

Great post! It sounds like maybe the RedLine Euro Series 5w40 would be a good oil for the later 507 spec'd engines also, once they run out of the new emissions warranty that most of them now have.
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Old February 13th, 2020, 14:42   #6
tikal
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Thanks Matt-98AHU for the informative post. Here is another post that goes along the lines of what Matt-98AHU was explaining previously:

https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread.../#post-2752728

"Now these anti wear metals burn leaving high ash that would eventually block a DPF.

To get around this they set about making a low saps oil that would also supersede the old LongLife spec 0W30 506.01 .

507.00 was born and out performed every VW spec oil before it . The performance comes from the addition of higher oil basestocks 4 and 5 so it becomes a more complete oil with 3 , 4 and 5.

4 improves the broad range of temperatures.

5 ( Ester ) takes more high temp abuse and superior detergency .

3 , 4 and 5 is used in Ester marketed racing oils !

Along with a higher overall additive package concentration makes 507.00 a high quality LongLife oil .


. . .

It's all about oil basestock groups and the additive package that gives it's quality ."
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Old May 14th, 2020, 09:45   #7
Wastookey
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thanks a lot for your post. my friend has the exact same model as yours, and it does looks there's a similar problem.
Would show him this post.
update anything that you can, if possible and huge thanks for everything so far. Colorful Summer-like Tuna Rice Salad

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