dieselpower04
Veteran Member
I already have the PD150 injectors. Just saying you said ppl have reported gains, I fail to see it.
PD Reprofiled Stage II Chrome-Plated Cams
- Thread starter Franko6
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Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
Perhaps I misremember which one you are, but fuel starvation is ONE issue. The cam torsion value is as much, if not more of an issue.
Before you nay say the cam, try experimenting with the cam's torsion value.
We have PLENTY of people who have reported actual gains. I'd like to see your opinion change, but you have to try some changes to know. As for the PD 150's, if you are already at 190+ hp, the question of fuel starvation may still stand. There are larger nozzles.
You have not verified if you are indeed the one Krout worked with. Getting a stock car to 'feel' different is a lot different than getting a car with 190+ hp to feel different. Did you dyno the difference? It's always been a big complaint when the lack of concrete information.
What changes have you tried for the torsion value?
Before you nay say the cam, try experimenting with the cam's torsion value.
We have PLENTY of people who have reported actual gains. I'd like to see your opinion change, but you have to try some changes to know. As for the PD 150's, if you are already at 190+ hp, the question of fuel starvation may still stand. There are larger nozzles.
You have not verified if you are indeed the one Krout worked with. Getting a stock car to 'feel' different is a lot different than getting a car with 190+ hp to feel different. Did you dyno the difference? It's always been a big complaint when the lack of concrete information.
What changes have you tried for the torsion value?
dieselpower04
Veteran Member
Frank, Scott Krout installed my cam.
All I am saying is that I was lead to believe by you that installing this cam, straight up, would yield results. Scott did not feel a difference, and neither do i.
You made it sound that installing in MY car, I would see an increase. When we spoke on the phone, there were never stipulations (no lack of fuel, no adjustments on torsion). Just install and see more hp and torque.
The torsion is set to the same place it was before the cam install, at zero.
People felt a difference with Colt, that much I know.
2footbraker
Veteran Member
Isn't it all just speculation either way without a dyno?
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
2footbraker,
There have been several of our cams installed that yielded in excess of 50mpg in cars that never got that economy before. There are also speed runs that were dramatically faster times, and to our credit, there were other modified cams removed and ours were installed for substantial gains.
This site is very odd with the dynos. Unless the dyno turns results that people want to see, they discount them. But I agree, a dyno is supposed to equal results.
DieselPower04,
You are on a very short list of disappointed customers. I am more than willing to work with you. I hope you are willing to work with me. I was not aware of the extent of your build until after the cam was installed. Until you told me of your PD 150's I was wondering how you ever got the PD 100's to put out 190hp! But there is also a limit for what the PD 150's can do.
As for the 'stipulation', as you call it, the torsion value issue is definitely one that I have made my vendors and customers aware of. Only recently when I found an engine set at -5.7 and running very well did I post about the problem of setting the torsion value. Please note, the issue STARTS with the crank lock, which can be moved either direction a substantial amount. That will make your previous torsion value invalid.
I invite you to contact me and see what we can do to resolve your situation.
There have been several of our cams installed that yielded in excess of 50mpg in cars that never got that economy before. There are also speed runs that were dramatically faster times, and to our credit, there were other modified cams removed and ours were installed for substantial gains.
This site is very odd with the dynos. Unless the dyno turns results that people want to see, they discount them. But I agree, a dyno is supposed to equal results.
DieselPower04,
You are on a very short list of disappointed customers. I am more than willing to work with you. I hope you are willing to work with me. I was not aware of the extent of your build until after the cam was installed. Until you told me of your PD 150's I was wondering how you ever got the PD 100's to put out 190hp! But there is also a limit for what the PD 150's can do.
As for the 'stipulation', as you call it, the torsion value issue is definitely one that I have made my vendors and customers aware of. Only recently when I found an engine set at -5.7 and running very well did I post about the problem of setting the torsion value. Please note, the issue STARTS with the crank lock, which can be moved either direction a substantial amount. That will make your previous torsion value invalid.
I invite you to contact me and see what we can do to resolve your situation.
dieselpower04
Veteran Member
Too many variables present now to test.
I have moved to Las Vegas, so the elevation is way different from Florida.
I will try to get a dyno done, but the results will not prove much.
People have always said they felt a difference with their cam, for some reason I am the only one who has not.
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
You are not the 'only one' with issues getting the adjustments right.
Like I said, I have notified everyone about the problem with setting the torsion value. We have corrected the torsion value in several cars.
Call me.
Like I said, I have notified everyone about the problem with setting the torsion value. We have corrected the torsion value in several cars.
Call me.
a2lute
Member
Hey Franko, do you have a list of everthing that comes with the cam bolts, bushings, etc? It would help with planning the upgrade.
1854sailor
Resident Curmudgeon
Would this cam work in a BHW with RC2?
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
A2lute,
We do have an estimate we will email to you. If you provide contact information, we will be happy to send it to you. PM me... thanks!
We do have an estimate we will email to you. If you provide contact information, we will be happy to send it to you. PM me... thanks!
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
We would like to resolve the question DieselPower04 is experiencing.
First and foremost, be aware that the engine that Scott has has been dyno'd at around 195hp.
The #1 issue with setting the PD cam is a lack of a TDC mark. The claim of accuracy for the cam lock is questionable. The position of the cam pin hole and the accuracy of the fit for the crankshaft allows some movement between the parts. Although the ECU will compensate to optimize the timing, the cam has a mechanical adjustment. The mechanical adjustment is read through a cam position sensor. The VCDS/ Engine module/ block 4/ torsion value is the cam position reading.
The problem is that we have seen readings that worked well in a car that are between +2.5 and -5.7. However, one particular vehicle, the improvement in fuel economy was 4 mpg by making an adjustment from 0.0 to -.5.
We are still working out a method for more scientifically setting the TDC position and cam position.
If the engine needing cam work is in an operating state, we recommend getting a reading of the torsion value prior to dismantling the vehicle's cam. That way, if the vehicle had been running well before, you will have a better chance to get a good starting point for the setting the value for the new cam.
First and foremost, be aware that the engine that Scott has has been dyno'd at around 195hp.
The #1 issue with setting the PD cam is a lack of a TDC mark. The claim of accuracy for the cam lock is questionable. The position of the cam pin hole and the accuracy of the fit for the crankshaft allows some movement between the parts. Although the ECU will compensate to optimize the timing, the cam has a mechanical adjustment. The mechanical adjustment is read through a cam position sensor. The VCDS/ Engine module/ block 4/ torsion value is the cam position reading.
The problem is that we have seen readings that worked well in a car that are between +2.5 and -5.7. However, one particular vehicle, the improvement in fuel economy was 4 mpg by making an adjustment from 0.0 to -.5.
We are still working out a method for more scientifically setting the TDC position and cam position.
If the engine needing cam work is in an operating state, we recommend getting a reading of the torsion value prior to dismantling the vehicle's cam. That way, if the vehicle had been running well before, you will have a better chance to get a good starting point for the setting the value for the new cam.
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
In a word.... YES!
I have measured the cams for the BEW, BRM, BHW and the V-10 Touareg engines.
The valve lobes for the intakes and exhaust are identical for all cams, including the V-10 Toureg, which we are now profiling...
The injector lobe height is IDENTICAL for the BEW, BHW and V-10
The BRM injector lobe height is about .010" taller, with a more radical mechanical injector lobe bump.
Due to the high price of the V-10 cams, we will rebuild valve lobes for that engine, within limits. All cam journals for the Touareg cam will be plated for increased oiling and to reduce parasitic drag.
We will also be making a limited run of chrome plated journals and cam seals for ALH Stage II cams
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tikal
Veteran Member
For those folks that have Passats 2004-5 with Frank's reprofiled, chrome-plated Stage II cams installed: have you observed any increases in mileage?
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
tikal
Veteran Member
And also what is the warranty on these if any?
Thanks in advance for the response.
Thanks in advance for the response.
I have an 02 Golf 190K miles. Recently getting a ticking that does not go away until driven about 30 minutes, then just get quiter.
What is the price of a a Stage II cam & followers and the other bits I need?
Thanks,
Dale P.
What is the price of a a Stage II cam & followers and the other bits I need?
Thanks,
Dale P.
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
Tikal,
Sorry for the delay. We were on our winter getaway.
One thing I think we have always been noted for is REPUTATION. We have always stood behind our products.
At this point, we have been working with the PD cams for about 4 years, understand the problems and have creative, innovative and cost-effective solutions. We are confident with our product.
We will warrant our PD cam kits for 3 years, Unlimited Miles.
However, warranties come with requirements. Each kit must be 'complete', which means each kit will include the choice of cam with the BRM or BEW/BHW injector profile, our modified cam bearings must be properly installed, new nitrided INA lifters, PTFE cam seal, tandem pump seal. We will also mandate our break-in procedure and Joe Gibbs break-in oil. The customer will be required to document use of a VW/Audi designated 505.01 oil that is a 5-40 weight. Our preferred brand is Schaeffer's 9000 5-40, however we will accept other products, as long as they meet the proper ratings. If you are not sure if your oil would qualify, please check with us.
We will not warrant damages arising from abuse or neglect.
Sorry for the delay. We were on our winter getaway.
One thing I think we have always been noted for is REPUTATION. We have always stood behind our products.
At this point, we have been working with the PD cams for about 4 years, understand the problems and have creative, innovative and cost-effective solutions. We are confident with our product.
We will warrant our PD cam kits for 3 years, Unlimited Miles.
However, warranties come with requirements. Each kit must be 'complete', which means each kit will include the choice of cam with the BRM or BEW/BHW injector profile, our modified cam bearings must be properly installed, new nitrided INA lifters, PTFE cam seal, tandem pump seal. We will also mandate our break-in procedure and Joe Gibbs break-in oil. The customer will be required to document use of a VW/Audi designated 505.01 oil that is a 5-40 weight. Our preferred brand is Schaeffer's 9000 5-40, however we will accept other products, as long as they meet the proper ratings. If you are not sure if your oil would qualify, please check with us.
We will not warrant damages arising from abuse or neglect.
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Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
DaleP,
The 'tapping' can be a very dangerous noise. Before I'd drive the vehicle again, I would remove the valve cover and check each exhaust lobe and cam follower for extreme wear.
There are some considerations for pricing the cam kits. Both choices of cams are chrome-plated and have a .020" taller lift.
BEW/ BHW cam................................................................$695.
BRM cam...........................................................................$725.
Cam Bearings set.............................................................$109.
Machining Modifications to cam bearings..........................$100.
Joe Gibbs BR oil, two mandated break-in oil changes........$75.
The tandem seal and cam seal.........................................$22.
Mann Oil filters are $6.75- $8.75, depending on year model.
Schaeffer 9000 5-40 oil per oil change........................$32.50 ($6.50 qt)
Please also note that we will accept core cams with a minimum of 2.424" height from the base circle to the top of the valve lobes. Any cam with less height will be rejected. It is simply not true that a new cam cannot be reprofiled. Anyone who has been in the business of performance modifications knows that.
We also have been reprofiling the V-10 and V-8 Touareg cams. We have a repair kit.
We can accept cores for V-10 and V-8 Touareg cams with some additional wear due to the much higher cost of those cams. No valve cam lobe can have less than 2.415", with no more than 2 lobes with that much wear.
The 'tapping' can be a very dangerous noise. Before I'd drive the vehicle again, I would remove the valve cover and check each exhaust lobe and cam follower for extreme wear.
There are some considerations for pricing the cam kits. Both choices of cams are chrome-plated and have a .020" taller lift.
BEW/ BHW cam................................................................$695.
BRM cam...........................................................................$725.
Cam Bearings set.............................................................$109.
Machining Modifications to cam bearings..........................$100.
Joe Gibbs BR oil, two mandated break-in oil changes........$75.
The tandem seal and cam seal.........................................$22.
Mann Oil filters are $6.75- $8.75, depending on year model.
Schaeffer 9000 5-40 oil per oil change........................$32.50 ($6.50 qt)
Please also note that we will accept core cams with a minimum of 2.424" height from the base circle to the top of the valve lobes. Any cam with less height will be rejected. It is simply not true that a new cam cannot be reprofiled. Anyone who has been in the business of performance modifications knows that.
We also have been reprofiling the V-10 and V-8 Touareg cams. We have a repair kit.
We can accept cores for V-10 and V-8 Touareg cams with some additional wear due to the much higher cost of those cams. No valve cam lobe can have less than 2.415", with no more than 2 lobes with that much wear.
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cheefpilot
Well-known member
That warranty makes me feel even better about my cam purchase, I didn't know about it when I bought mine a month or so ago. I have almost 3000 miles on it now and the car is running perfect and has plenty of power with the BEW cam.
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
So does the cam price above require a good core?
Is there a diagram that shows the correct way to measure the lobe height?
How serious is a fluttering sound between 1400 and 1600 rpm?
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
Cheef,
Yes, I will warrant all cams I've sold that 'follow the rules'. As long as the cam profiling, cam bearings and break-in procedure is followed, we will warrant our cams.
As for performance/ economy gains, I know that there are several customers who have achieved gains. Rather than speaking for them, I would rather they make their own statements of mileage or performance.
Although we haven't gone through the expense of trials on dyno, we have done extensive timed runs. Apparently, that is no proof for some. But it did show us that we were making improvements.
I want to emphasize, the setting of the cam torsion value is a very important facet of maximizing performance. It's no different than the tweaking we would do to enhance performance for race engines by dialing in the cam with a degree wheel. Small cam timing changes can make large efficiency/ performance changes. Since it has been noted that there is a large variation in the torsion value between PD motors, the torsion value should be established prior to any tear down of the engine, if possible. Otherwise, maximizing performance by setting the torsion value will be more of a trial and error exercise.
Yes, I will warrant all cams I've sold that 'follow the rules'. As long as the cam profiling, cam bearings and break-in procedure is followed, we will warrant our cams.
As for performance/ economy gains, I know that there are several customers who have achieved gains. Rather than speaking for them, I would rather they make their own statements of mileage or performance.
Although we haven't gone through the expense of trials on dyno, we have done extensive timed runs. Apparently, that is no proof for some. But it did show us that we were making improvements.
I want to emphasize, the setting of the cam torsion value is a very important facet of maximizing performance. It's no different than the tweaking we would do to enhance performance for race engines by dialing in the cam with a degree wheel. Small cam timing changes can make large efficiency/ performance changes. Since it has been noted that there is a large variation in the torsion value between PD motors, the torsion value should be established prior to any tear down of the engine, if possible. Otherwise, maximizing performance by setting the torsion value will be more of a trial and error exercise.
cheefpilot
Well-known member
Yep I followed the instructions exactly using the Joe Gibbs oil and switched to a 505.01 oil at 500 miles and will be doing the 2500 mile change this weekend. I will get some shaeffers from you when the next change is due. And my opinion on performance is that people are a bit foolish to expect just a camshaft alone to make a big difference in how their engine performs. My engine runs well, has plenty of power, and is fuel efficient. That should be enough to satisfy anyone who isn't racing and those who are have better options than a TDI for that purpose.
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
ABCTDI,
Fluttering could be an EGR issue, a fueling issue or a cam issue. The EGR is usually the easiest to fix. Clean the EGR rod and plate. Fueling can be more complicated, but less likely. If it is a cam issue, it is apparent when you take the valve cover off.
I don't have a diagram, but checking for cam wear will require at very least, that the rocker shafts be removed.
I use a 2"-3" micrometer. Set the opening of the micrometer to 2.423" and lock the setting.
Place the anvil of the micrometer on the base circle of the cam and try to pass the spindle end over the top of the center of the valve lobes. If it won't fit, it's good. If you have space between the base circle and the top of the lobe, the cam is a reject. This can be done with a vernier caliper, but you may lose some accuracy.
To give you an idea, with the cam height being 2.424", there is about .015" wear on the cam. This should be considered substantial.
If you are ok with the measurements and want to keep running the cam, do not reuse the TTY bolts for the rocker shafts. We have a reusable set for $25. Torque value is 25 ft. lbs.
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
Cheef,
Higher lift and duration helps performance, but of course what you say is correct. Our main goal was longevity and efficiency, not high performance.
Higher lift and duration helps performance, but of course what you say is correct. Our main goal was longevity and efficiency, not high performance.
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
Thanks for the good advice. I do need to inspect the cam.
I'm still not clear on the pricing though. I get the feeling if my core is too worn, I can't get a new one from you and/or it will cost more...which is fine. I just want to know.
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
I offer to buy back usable cams. That is not reflected in the figures.
An example of pricing:
BEW chrome-plated cam
INA Nitrided Lifters
modded cam bearings
cam seal
tandem pump seal
reusable cam and rocker bolts
Joe Gibbs BR oil (two changes)
Oil filters (2)
$1240.50
An example of pricing:
BEW chrome-plated cam
INA Nitrided Lifters
modded cam bearings
cam seal
tandem pump seal
reusable cam and rocker bolts
Joe Gibbs BR oil (two changes)
Oil filters (2)
$1240.50
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dieselpower04
Veteran Member
Wanna buy my old cam?
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
dieselpower04,
If that cam is not torn up, I would be happy to buy it back. The minimum height of any valve love from base circle to top of the lobe is 2.424". Don't send it if it won't meet minimum criteria.
If that cam is not torn up, I would be happy to buy it back. The minimum height of any valve love from base circle to top of the lobe is 2.424". Don't send it if it won't meet minimum criteria.
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
Thanks for the clarification.
How much is a good core worth to you?
How much is a good core worth to you?
Franko6
Vendor , w/Business number
$100.00 for a usable core. We chrome-plate the entire cam, including the cam seal surface. Great running surface for VERY long wear potential on the seal.
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