ULSD emissions any cleaner in pre '07 cars?

So, all the articles about ULSD seem to imply "cleaner emissions" with ULSD. But is this true for a pre-'07 car like my '04 TDI?

Cleaner, but no where as clean as post "07s.

wny_pat said:

Cleaner, but no where as clean as post "07s.

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__. That's right. If you take an ordinary diesel car built in the last 10 years, it will probably be a good bit cleaner on ULSD. There will be what's basically a total reduction in SOX emissions and there's a knock-on effect for HC emissions as well. But the big effect will be on particulates. Without the molecules of sulfur to act as a precipitate core, there will be less formation of particulates. That has two good effects; big particulates are "soot" and we've all lived with too much of that in our cars for years, small particulates can be so small that they are invisible or near-invisible. These are the ones that will penetrate deeply into your lungs and resist the normal mechanisms that lungs have to clear them.

__. But the best is that with the sulfur gone, car manufacturers can use better emissions control technologies. Sulfur will poison catalysts and particulate traps and EPA will not allow full certification without proof that emissions controls will last "the full useful life" of the vehicles. A diesel car that's set up to control emissions with ULSD will be very clean, indeed.

So what are our typical numbers say last year on regular LSD and now with ULSD?

Since my retailer started with ULSD, I have noticed 2 things. First, a drop of 1-2 mpg. That could be due to colder weather, though.

The other is pronounced: I get more diesel stink. Before, I would pull into my garage (head first) and when I got out, no stink. Now, there is a pronounced smell of lingering diesel exhaust every time I exit the vehicle.

Is it the ULSD? The car runs fine, as always. 2005 Passat TDI.

TomatoPie said:

(snip) I get more diesel stink. (snip) Is it the ULSD? (snip)

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__. My experience has been just the opposite, for my '02 Jetta (RIP) and MzLauraLee's waggin (but MzLauraLee uses B20 from the Pentagon place so it's not exactly the same).
'

i will agree about the start up smell. worse in the tdi than in the 300tdt with no bio d in it. the seal question may explain why i have smell from the front of the benz.

Brock_from_WI said:

I have noticed less smoke on WOT and less smell in our garage now that we are on ULSD.

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Same here...I've noticed far less smoke at WOT and less stink from both of my TDIs (02 Golf, 05 PD Jetta Wagen). I've noticed virtually no change in MPGs with ULSD compared to rotgut LSD. If there's any difference at all in MPGs, it's too small to notice and I'm not going to worry about it.

My normally smokey Golf due to its chipping and bigger nozzles is almost completely smoke-free at WOT with ULSD compared to rotgut LSD.

My 05 PD JWagen with RC2 and no other mods had a tiny bit of smoke at WOT with LSD. Now there is virtually NONE AT ALL at WOT with ULSD. I drove the Wagen from NH to VA and back over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend and fueled up with LSD in VA. I had fueled up with ULSD in NH at the start of the trip. The normal amount of smoke I used to have at WOT with rotgut LSD came back on the return trip! After returning to NH, I drove around some more and fueled up with ULSD in NH after the low fuel light came on. Now that the Wagen is running on another full tank of ULSD, the smoke is gone! With ULSD, I can't make the Wagen smoke at all, no matter how hard I try.

I haven't been able to tell any mileage or performance differences with ULSD compared to rotgut LSD, but I've definitely noticed a big reduction in smoke with ULSD.

Personally it took about 2 tank for it to finally clear all the soot out of my pipe. I think that has a lot to do with my short trips to work but I try to get her on the highway every weekend when possible. I don't get great mileage overall but no worse then a auto tdi in the city.

I need to do an oil change though...7k came up quick!

I was only going to test the GC-0w30 to 5k but I guess I overshot that

TomatoPie said:

Since my retailer started with ULSD, I have noticed 2 things. First, a drop of 1-2 mpg. That could be due to colder weather, though.

The other is pronounced: I get more diesel stink. Before, I would pull into my garage (head first) and when I got out, no stink. Now, there is a pronounced smell of lingering diesel exhaust every time I exit the vehicle.

Is it the ULSD? The car runs fine, as always. 2005 Passat TDI.

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Same here.. First tank with the green sticker, and I am getting a diesel exhaust smell in the cabin. I have to turn off the air, and close the vent with the recirculate button for it to go away.

I'm hoping this is just due to mixed winter fuel. It has been getting down to the teens and 20's overnight, so they must be mixing by now.

ForestHill said:

ULSD emissions any cleaner in pre '07 cars?

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Yes, ULSD makes earlier vehicles about 10% "cleaner". When fitted with the newest technology, the cars are 95% cleaner.

From Southwest Research Institute:

2007 emissions: "The new standards require not only a 95-percent reduction in gaseous emissions such as the oxides of nitrogen by 2010, but also require a 90- percent reduction in particulate matter (PM) by 2007."

"SwRI has shown that soot, or elemental carbon particles, are virtually absent from the exhaust of a diesel engine equipped with a wall-flow CRT-DPF."

Could everyone who smells more of a diesel smell say exactly what they're smelling?

A diesel FUEL smell, or a diesel EXHAUST smell? Big difference.

A fuel smell could be caused by leaky IP seals. So, if you've got a diesel FUEL smell, say what type of IP you have, VE or PD.

I don't have a fuel smell, just an exhaust smell (on my 86 VE-IDI), but that's because of a very slight exhaust leak that was there before I wrecked the donor car (and was worse, actually). And, it's the 20% bio that I smell, not the 80% diesel.

Dunno513 said:

Same here.. First tank with the green sticker, and I am getting a diesel exhaust smell in the cabin. I have to turn off the air, and close the vent with the recirculate button for it to go away.

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Think you have a different problem - exhaust leak.

I was thinking the same thing.

Interesting. My wife has noticed more "diesel" smell but my nose is not a good way to tell.

TM

Thermo1223 said:

Personally it took about 2 tank for it to finally clear all the soot out of my pipe. I think that has a lot to do with my short trips to work but I try to get her on the highway every weekend when possible.

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Do you really believe that using ULSD somehow actually CLEANED any soot out? How do you suppose that happened? LOL

Dorf your numbers seem about correct with the 10%, or at least more believable. In my Cummins, I can still blow thick black clouds of smoke in the right conditions, and they don't seem to be any thinner...10% I could be missing either way..

DieselSmoker said:

Do you really believe that using ULSD somehow actually CLEANED any soot out? How do you suppose that happened? LOL

Dorf your numbers seem about correct with the 10%, or at least more believable. In my Cummins, I can still blow thick black clouds of smoke in the right conditions, and they don't seem to be any thinner...10% I could be missing either way..

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Til I gradually cleaned out my own tailpipe and tank from LSD yes. I build quite a bit it seems just putting around town.

You read into things quite too much. I never once said it was soley responsible for it. I still get a cloud evey now & then but no where near what they once were.

The Passat never smoked anyways, so I cannot say any difference there. MFA still shows 40 to 42 MPG, which is pretty acurate over long distances, not so much on shorter trips.

But the biggest thing I notice is the complete clean exhaust from my old diesels. No smoke at all any more. And my Jetta's rump stays squeeky clean!

Yeah, I've noticed that my Golf's tail lights are the same color.

I can smoke at will, though.