No compression #1 cylinder

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
The stock VW filters are pretty much the minimum filter they could get away with. Look at any commercial diesel vehicle and you'll find a MUCH more substantial filter with a way better water separator. The VW filters are pretty coarse too, letting through lots of small particles.
And this is based on what? The filter in my Mercedes looks pretty similar to the one in my MKIV, only the Mercedes filter is smaller. And TDIs have gone hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles with no fueling issues using OE or aftermarket replacement filters. In my opinion upgrading the fuel filter is a solution in search of a problem.
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
And this is based on what? The filter in my Mercedes looks pretty similar to the one in my MKIV, only the Mercedes filter is smaller. And TDIs have gone hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles with no fueling issues using OE or aftermarket replacement filters. In my opinion upgrading the fuel filter is a solution in search of a problem.
The outside of 2 filters can look similar but who can see inside how the element traps particles.
I've seen M.B. comparisons indicating their filters filter smaller particles then others.

I do agree using another filter may be a band aid repair to mask the real cause.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The stock VW filters are pretty much the minimum filter they could get away with. Look at any commercial diesel vehicle and you'll find a MUCH more substantial filter with a way better water separator. The VW filters are pretty coarse too, letting through lots of small particles.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk

Funny, the commercial Volkswagen engines use the same filters. :confused:

Seem to be fine for them.

If you require more than the standard filter, you need to find a better place for fuel. ;)
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Can one really compare delivery vans (VW's "commercial" offerings) to that of say large fleet trucks?

When I look to see what's the best I take a peak at what CAT is doing.

I'd like to hear what Pete has to say about fuel filtration.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I was not referring to "delivery vans". Volkswagen makes LOTS of Industrial engines, Marine engines, and they also build some pretty large trucks.

In places where poor fuel is suspect, then yes better filtration may be a good idea (and some of those engines will have a sediment separator and even an optional electric heater for the fuel).

But those of us with passenger road going cars buying fuel at modern retail stations are very unlikely to need anything beyond the standard issue filter setup. I have only once, ever, with probably a million miles of dieseling collectively under my belt since the late '80s, gotten "bad" fuel at a commercial station... which just required a new filter, and off I went. That car had over 400k miles on it at the time.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Getting really bad fuel is, as you and others have experienced, fairly obvious. What's not so obvious is running tank after tank of "marginal" fuel.

Again, I wish that Pete would chime in. He has as much stated that he has seen injectors that have suffered from running marginal fuels for an extended period of time.

Keep in mind that the quality of the fuel as it's delivered is but one thing. How the station operator maintains their tanks/systems is another. With margins getting smaller I'm not seeing how any of this is going to become less of a concern...
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I believe it is the Department of Agriculture that monitors the fuel stations and their pumps. I do not know how much this varies state to state, but here they have some pretty strict requirements. A family member had an Amoco franchise and took the buyout from BP when the opportunity arose, and they are even more strict than the law requires.

The ground tanks have all kinds of sensors, not only for water but for flow rates for both the delivery pumps (prime pumps) in the ground as well as the actual pumps in the islands. Substandard fuel would tear them up just as bad, so they make very sure that does not happen.

Now if you are filling your modern Volkswagen with some above ground farm tank from the 1960s that your old uncle used to use to fill up his old John Deere, then yes you may open yourself up to a problem. But otherwise, the modern high volume fuel retailer of a reputable name brand is not likely to ever become even a "marginal" problem within any normal lifespan of any car or light truck. If it was, my lot would be jammed packed with broken down diesels with fuel related problems. And that does not happen.

Now what HAS happened, many times, is some dumbassed aftermarket fuel filter conglomeration that someone slapped on their TDI with science experiment pieces and tractor parts has caused a loss of fuel prime, no starts, hard starts, leaks, etc. Those of course get tossed in the trash and the car runs perfectly fine after the factory setup is put back in place.
 
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apbiii

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Location
So Cal
TDI
2002 5spd Wagon
All that discussion about filters while interesting does not help me much. I still don't understand how Bosio 1019 injectors got destroyed in 75k miles due to bad fuel when the vast majority of the time I used a major brand of diesel.

Is it possible these injectors are more sensitive to fuel than others? The needles do have dark shanks which Pete says is asphaltane from the fuel. I have no idea how many other ALH motors are running these injectors but I suspect very few in Southern California.

The filter has never clogged and I don't find water in it.

The VW community does not seem to have much problem with this but the trucking community talks about it a lot.

This has been an expensive adventure and I would rather not repeat it but am not feeling like I know how.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
While it does seem fairly unlikely, but it would only take one tank and who's to say.
 

apbiii

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Location
So Cal
TDI
2002 5spd Wagon
From the explanation that I got from Pete it was a cumulative thing that developed over time not a sudden event due to one bad batch of fuel.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
I think that Pete needs to step in here and explain exactly what he basis his information on. Too much speculation and lack of facts to make any headway on this.
 

Curious Chris

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 11, 2001
Location
Pineview GA
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 RIP Rockford IL
If you want to diagnose without taking the head off you can get a cylinder leak down tester. Pretty cool tool: you pressurize the cylinder through the glow plug opening. On my car the valves were not seating and you could feel air coming of the EGR valve; put a ballon on the opening and it inflated nicely.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I think that Pete needs to step in here and explain exactly what he basis his information on. Too much speculation and lack of facts to make any headway on this.
The injectors had extremely high level of varnish buildup inside the injector body.

The base of the nozzles themselves looked like they were dipped in tar.

The Varnish/tar residue built up on the needle and this ruined the sealing face of the contact region.

Once that occurred, the nozzle no longer was shutting off the fuel and it eventually streamed and melted the piston at that location.

Fuel with high levels of asphaltene (tar) cannot be filtered out. Usually fuel additives like Power Service help to reduce or eliminate the buildup of the varnish on the high temperature regions of the nozzle.

Even stock nozzles will suffer from this.

Last year we modified our DLC nozzles to incorporate full needle DLC coatings to increase the resistance to poor fuel quality failures. Even with that there is no guarantee.

Good article on Asphaltene

http://dieseldirect.com/2014/04/02/understanding-common-culprit-lost-mpg-asphaltene/


Power Service Diesel Kleen "Prevents asphaltene formations and thermal breakdown of diesel fuel - protects against sludge formations that plug fuel-filters and injectors"
https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/s...ulletin 3800 - Diesel Kleen +Cetane Boost.pdf
 
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richmondvatdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Location
Chesterfield, Virginia
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon 5-speed,2003 Jetta GL Wagon, 2003 Jetta GLS Wagon, 2013 CC 2.0T
That article blames the fuel scorching on common rail engines, which the ALH is not. Is the scorching actually common in all direct inject diesel engines because the nozzle is exposed to the heat of combustion? And if so, how common is this type of failure, Pete, in our ALH and PD engines? And how much is ULSD contributing to the problem?
 
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Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
VE, PD, and CR VW engines all have the same exposure to the combustion bowl.

Poor quality fuel with high levels of asphaltene will lead to severe varnish build up.

Power Service seems to be a key to preventing it, I run it and those that do never indicate any varnish in the injectors.

Those that claim to use "Good Quality Fuel" but when asked about using Power Service "no, should I" almost always indicate noticeable amount of varnish and tar formation in the nozzle regions.



Organic components of the fuel can become contaminants, such as asphaltenes.

They form as a result of:
– Oxidation or degradation of the fuel
– Poor thermal stability (ability to handle heat)
– Cold temperature reactions (waxing)
– Unstable reaction to additive mixing (lube additive mixed with fuel additive)

• Asphaltenes are naturally occurring hydrocarbons found in fuel. In their natural state, they are too small to be seen and pass through the filter. They also contribute positively to the BTU content of the fuel.
Heat causes them to come out of suspension, agglomerate, and become trapped in filters.

https://www.sbmar.com/Maintenance/PDF/ULSD-Fuel.pdf
 
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jokila

Vendor
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Location
Houston, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
Is it needed in every tank? I find carrying the bottle of Power Service messy to deal with and hard to measure accurately from the bottle.

I guess I could keep it at home and remember to use it, but wonder if anyone has a good solution for the measure. If I could find a way to carry individual pours in the trunk that won't leak from the container I would be happy camper.
 

maxmoo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
Lakefield, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2000 golf, 2001 golf, 2000 beetle, 2003 wagon, 2004 golf, 2004 jetta, all diesels
Is it needed in every tank? I find carrying the bottle of Power Service messy to deal with and hard to measure accurately from the bottle.

I guess I could keep it at home and remember to use it, but wonder if anyone has a good solution for the measure. If I could find a way to carry individual pours in the trunk that won't leak from the container I would be happy camper.
I carry a 1 liter bottle of additive and a clean empty 500ml water bottle in a heavy duty zip lock bag, stored in the little cuby hole with the rubber strap in the trunk.
I use the water bottle, with a permanent marker line at 100cc, as a measuring cup and to pour the additive into the tank.
That way it is always with me and no stink and no spill.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
I fill an small olive oil bottle with 4 oz. and carry just when needed. Last week I went 800 miles, took 2 pre-measured bottles.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Just stick a bottle in the trunk near the spare tire, and a funnel. Put "some" in when you fill, before the fuel goes in.

Quantity isn't all THAT important with this stuff, and there's no cost to "too much" other than to your wallet. It's inexpensive enough that frankly I don't get the point in trying to be too cute with the quantity.

I've run this stuff in boats and land vehicles for quite a long time and I like it -- it's inexpensive, available anywhere (including at Wally!) and works. Use the gray stuff during the summer and white in the winter (if you're in an area where temps go materially below freezing; if gel risk is not at issue where you are then use gray all the time.)
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2000 & 2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
I'm no way an advocate of biofuels, but I'm wondering if periodic use of biodiesel would also help. Biodiesel is known to clean out crap from fuel system, maybe it also cleans up injectors a bit?
 
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