Why all these big vehicles?

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Hybrids are such a stupid idea. Carrying around batteries subtracts from the useful load of the car.
Disadvantages of a Hybrid Car
1. Less Power: Hybrid cars are twin powered engine. The gasoline engine which is primary source of power is much smaller as compared to what you get in single engine powered car and electric motor is low power. The combined power of both is often less than that of gas powered engine. It is therefore suited for city driving and not for speed and acceleration.
2. Can be Expensive: The biggest drawback of having a hybrid car is that it can burn a hole in your pocket. Hybrid cars are comparatively expensive than a regular petrol car and can cost $5000 to $10000 more than a standard version. However, that extra amount can be offset with lower running cost and tax exemptions.
3. Poorer Handling: A hybrid car houses an gasoline powered engine, a lighter electric engine and a pack of powerful batteries. This adds weight and eats up the extra space in the car. Extra weight results in fuel inefficiency and manufacturers cut down weight which has resulted in motor and battery downsizing and less support in the suspension and body.
4. Higher Maintenance Costs: The presence of dual engine, continuous improvement in technology, and higher maintenance cost can make it difficult for mechanics to repair the car. It is also difficult to find a mechanic with such an expertise.
5. Presence of High Voltage in Batteries: In case of an accident, the high voltage present inside the batteries can prove lethal for you. There is a high chance of you getting electrocuted in such cases which can also make the task difficult for rescuers to get other passengers and driver out of the car.
This post is full of idiocy.

First, I am not a "fan" of hybrids simply because the initial cost doesn't really offset the savings if you are after it for the economics alone. However, the same could be said for diesels after a certain period, depending on model/brand/comparable gasoline fueled version/etc.

However, the weight of the battery in the grand scheme of things is negligible.

Hybrids do not necessarily have smaller, weaker gasoline engines... not sure where you pulled that from, but that is absolutely NOT true.

Some hybrid versions of vehicles accelerate BETTER than the non-hybrid version.

Short term PM costs are a wash, long term it depends on a lot of things. Yeah, we see 10+ year old Priuses in here with wallet crushing repairs needed every day, but most folks who buy a new RX450h are not ever going to see anything substantial break on it during the time they own it any more or less than they would with a regular RX350.

We have a shop full of people who can service them... there isn't anything mystical about them. They have OBD just like everything else, and are held together with nuts and bolts just like everything else.

Electrocution is a non-issue. If you are dumb enough to do that, you should never have air tools or a lift that can allow you to walk under a 3000+ pound car. In fact, you should probably just stick to bagging groceries. There are 100 other things around the shop that can hurt you too.

In the event of a crash, I do not know of a single hybrid that does not switch off the high voltage supply (which is done AT the battery), so there is never any high voltage just floating about anywhere , that is a myth. A stray spark igniting fuel or airbags (that use a version of solid rocket propellant, did you know that? Seatbelt pretensioners too!) can also cause a lot of harm.

You can hate on hybrids all you want, but don't make things up. Seriously, a Prius (any of them) are AWFUL cars to drive. They don't need any embellishment to make a reason NOT to want to drive one. But they are still statistically reasonably reliable within the range most people keep a car and deliver reasonably good [city] fuel economy. If you can stand to drive one, and you can justify the cost, they are not that bad otherwise.

Other hybrid cars, the Avalon, the GS, the Fusion, heck even the short lived Jetta hybrid, are actually pretty nice to drive.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Don't think about hybrids, think of the overall complexity of cars and maintenance and repair costs. Mercedes with their new inline 6 cylinder turbocharged engines have an electric motor between the engine and transmission to help smooth turbo lag on startup. Some Ram trucks have this too, and it's rumored that the new Porsche 911 will get similar hardware.

The good news about electronics in most cars is that they're pretty reliable. The bad news is when they fail it's expensive. And something as simple as a failed screen in the cabin can essentially disable the car. Many new cars have the HVAC run through the infotainment (I hate that word) screen. No display, no heat. Or defrost.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I have been seeing an awful lot of "Made in China" on parts lately, too, which makes me cringe. Because the stuff breaks. They farm out to the cheapest bidder and that is what they get.

The newer Audis all have Chinese door control modules in them. I know this, because I see them along the way to replace the door latches that seem to fail even more than 15 year old Volkswagens. It seems the manufacturers do not always learn from their mistakes. :rolleyes:
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
It's ironic that as we're supposed to be more oriented towards being "green" and conserving fossil fuels and products that are made with them, our vehicles are getting bigger which means they take more energy to produce as well as operate. And as the complexity of vehicles and cost to repair rises, I believe service lives will get shorter, not longer. If you need to spend $10K to replace the DSG transmission that runs AWD in a 10 year old Audi, for example, you're probably going to to throw the car out instead. Or replace air springs and/or adaptive dampers in a car, including the programming required post install to make them work.

At the other end of the spectrum, I took my Wagon to my guru yesterday for a timing belt replacement a bit early because the injection pump is leaking a little. He'll replace the pump and belt system. My temp gauge acted funny a couple times recently so while the coolant's out he'll replace the thermostat and temp sensor. All simple, inexpensive, items. If replacing them now means I don't have to think about them for a few years it's worth it. What simple devices older TDIs are. Wonderful.
 

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
The beauty of the old TDIs was in their simplicity. The modern era TDIs extract a severe premium for their complexity. It's likely that my next car will sadly have to be a gasser to reduce complexity.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Hybrids are such a stupid idea. Carrying around batteries subtracts from the useful load of the car.
Disadvantages of a Hybrid Car
1. Less Power: Hybrid cars are twin powered engine. The gasoline engine which is primary source of power is much smaller as compared to what you get in single engine powered car and electric motor is low power. The combined power of both is often less than that of gas powered engine. It is therefore suited for city driving and not for speed and acceleration.
2. Can be Expensive: The biggest drawback of having a hybrid car is that it can burn a hole in your pocket. Hybrid cars are comparatively expensive than a regular petrol car and can cost $5000 to $10000 more than a standard version. However, that extra amount can be offset with lower running cost and tax exemptions.
3. Poorer Handling: A hybrid car houses an gasoline powered engine, a lighter electric engine and a pack of powerful batteries. This adds weight and eats up the extra space in the car. Extra weight results in fuel inefficiency and manufacturers cut down weight which has resulted in motor and battery downsizing and less support in the suspension and body.
4. Higher Maintenance Costs: The presence of dual engine, continuous improvement in technology, and higher maintenance cost can make it difficult for mechanics to repair the car. It is also difficult to find a mechanic with such an expertise.
5. Presence of High Voltage in Batteries: In case of an accident, the high voltage present inside the batteries can prove lethal for you. There is a high chance of you getting electrocuted in such cases which can also make the task difficult for rescuers to get other passengers and driver out of the car.
I'm not sure where you got this from or dreamed it up, but it is largely rubbish.

1 is not necessarily true; while some hybrid vehicles are low powered and some have low-powered electric motors, others are not. For a simple example, go drive a Chevrolet Volt. They move. Sure, the gasoline engine is downsized ... because it doesn't need to be any bigger.
2. Sure, they cost more to buy. Sure, in this (temporary?) era of low fuel prices, the economics might not work out for a long time. But, to cite two common examples, the Prius and the Chevrolet Volt both have excellent reliability records. Battery longevity has been a non-issue for vehicles that have proper thermal management (not the Nissan Leaf) and proper battery state of charge management (not earlier Honda hybrids). Prius ... Volt ... non-issue.
3. BUNK. The previous-generation Priuses drove like crap because they were previous-generation Toyotas and those ALL drove like crap. I haven't driven the new one but my observation with a current rental Camry is that Toyota appears to have fixed this, at least on some models (including the Camry).
4. BUNK. See above concerning reliability records for many hybrid models. Maintaining the combustion engine is the same as any other. The EV part of it, is substantially maintenance-free. The Toyota Prius Hybrid Synergy Drive "transmission" - and the equivalent Ford models - has a whole lot less to go wrong inside it than your average-nowadays 8 speed automatic transmission (which is necessary to eke out as much efficiency as possible out of a non-hybrid combustion-engine powertrain).
5. BUNK. Cite your source for this being a "high chance". ALL of them have automatic battery cutoff systems with multiple levels of circuit protection. ALL of them have bright orange high voltage cables. First-responder training "Don't cut anything that's bright orange". ALL of them route these cables through the vehicle in a way that minimizes any interaction with the passenger compartment. Typically they're all either ahead of the firewall or underneath the floor - not through the passenger compartment. It is NOT necessary to cut any of these cables in reasonably foreseeable passenger-extraction scenarios - they're not routed through roof or door pillars, and if someone needs to be extracted through the floor of their vehicle, heaven help, because they're going to need it (or, more likely, it's too late anyhow). Bear in mind that your combustion-engine vehicle contains a reservoir of flammable/combustible liquid underneath the floor with hoses going under the floor to the engine compartment which also contains exhaust and emission control systems that are at elevated temperature during normal operation ...

Please don't spread FUD.

FWIW I don't have a hybrid or EV.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Keep in mind that GM just halted production of the Volt and Prius sales were down about a third last year. Hybrids may not be bad, but it appears that far fewer people want them.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
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Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
Hybrids are such a stupid idea.
OK, so, I do have a hybrid, a 2016 Prius Three.
  1. Hybrids have exactly as much power as the manufacturer intends. Priuses are slow because 0-60 in about 10 seconds is considered to be enough. Other hybrids are not necessarily slow.

    And, in any case, a stock Gen 4 Prius is faster than a stock BRM Jetta. OK, that is a Two Eco, and mine's a Three, but I really don't think 40 pounds of spare tire and a rear wiper will make up that difference... and that TDI's a DSG, which should be faster than a manual, the difference between a manual and a DSG is probably greater than the difference between a Three and a Two Eco. Basically, I almost certainly win the drag race stock for stock.
  2. While there's an MSRP premium, that premium often is reduced when fuel gets cheap. I've heard of some ridiculously cheap deals on hybrids (which is connected to IndigoBlueWagon's point about Volt production being ended and Prius sales cratering - some of this is due to demand shifting to the Tesla Model 3).
  3. I'd like to point up at those Car and Driver reviews that I linked in point #1 again - the skidpad numbers are better for the Prius (largely because it's lighter - using Toyota and VW weight numbers for our respective cars, 147 lbs lighter). Toyota copied the same Ford control blade rear suspension design that VW did, and the handling is far better than previous Priuses. And, frankly, the handling is far better than my Mk4 Golf ever was (it's been a while since I've driven a Mk5, though, but I know I wasn't impressed with a 2015 Mk6 Jetta TDI I drove, and that should have Mk5-esque hardware, as VW ditched the solid rear axle). Also, Toyota put a very quick steering rack on the Gen 4 Prius (like Mk7 GTI quick, although not variable ratio like the Mk7 GTI rack), and I greatly prefer it and its tuning to whatever Volkswagen's been doing on TDIs.

    The motor(s) in most hybrids sit where the conventional transmission was, taking up zero additional space. The battery does take up additional space, but Toyota's figured out that you can shrink the fuel tank and stick the battery under the rear seat, getting acceptable range (~450-550 miles is typical for me) with no other packaging hit. The battery being mounted towards the rear also helps weight distribution.

    And, as far as weight impacts to efficiency... the trick with weight is that it doesn't have as much negative impact as people think. Sure, it increases rolling resistance a bit, and it hurts you during acceleration and hill climbing. But, the extra kinetic energy from the hybrid system's additional weight is recovered upon hill descent and under braking, whereas you waste ALL of your kinetic energy under braking. The weight savings made to make up for the added weight, though, that's done through using better materials and using them intelligently, not through insufficiently supporting things, in fact, modern cars tend to be significantly stiffer where it counts.

    There's other benefits to the hybrid system, too. Engines have a single point at which they're most efficient, and the hybrid system uses the battery to keep the engine closer to that point - if power requested is too low to be efficient, it can either add load to the engine and charge the battery, or shut down the engine and discharge the battery. If power requested is too high to be efficient, it can supplement the engine using the battery. This means that I stay much closer to my 40% thermal efficiency peak than you stay to your probably ~42% thermal efficiency peak.
  4. That depends greatly on the hybrid, although the Toyota ones are well-documented. And, let's face it, finding a TDI mechanic ain't easy, either, and a 2007+ diesel, especially one with SCR, has far more to break than an input split hybrid like Toyota or Ford's hybrids - my Prius's transmission is simpler and has less to wear out than your manual transmission.
  5. The others have already addressed that.
 
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Jetta SS

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Location
Grand Bay, AL
TDI
'98 Jetta
My brother just got a used Prius, we've been bagging on him pretty hard. It's like being kids again and he's on the girls bike :).

Good cars, but the image - thats one disadvantage.
 
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MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
Hybrids are such a stupid idea. Carrying around batteries subtracts from the useful load of the car.

Disadvantages of a Hybrid Car

1. Less Power: Hybrid cars are twin powered engine. The gasoline engine which is primary source of power is much smaller as compared to what you get in single engine powered car and electric motor is low power. The combined power of both is often less than that of gas powered engine. It is therefore suited for city driving and not for speed and acceleration.

2. Can be Expensive: The biggest drawback of having a hybrid car is that it can burn a hole in your pocket. Hybrid cars are comparatively expensive than a regular petrol car and can cost $5000 to $10000 more than a standard version. However, that extra amount can be offset with lower running cost and tax exemptions.

3. Poorer Handling: A hybrid car houses an gasoline powered engine, a lighter electric engine and a pack of powerful batteries. This adds weight and eats up the extra space in the car. Extra weight results in fuel inefficiency and manufacturers cut down weight which has resulted in motor and battery downsizing and less support in the suspension and body.

4. Higher Maintenance Costs: The presence of dual engine, continuous improvement in technology, and higher maintenance cost can make it difficult for mechanics to repair the car. It is also difficult to find a mechanic with such an expertise.

5. Presence of High Voltage in Batteries: In case of an accident, the high voltage present inside the batteries can prove lethal for you. There is a high chance of you getting electrocuted in such cases which can also make the task difficult for rescuers to get other passengers and driver out of the car.
Here we go again anything besides Rattler's car is junk eh? Sez he! I mean he is so smart that he couldn't buy a car that was not exactly like his and neither should anybody with a brain according to him should either.:D
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
If you had to choose- which would it be a 2019 1.4t gasser or a 2015 tdi GSW?

I'd get the diesel for sure... but I wouldn't give up my old ones to do so. I would at least have to have something "older" in the stable so I can for sure get to work. ;)

Several years back, I resurrected and untooefed a 2001 2.slo Jetta from certain doom. It was an $800 Craigslist buy. Got it all fixed up, and went to sell it, and my sister's boyfriend (now husband) was in need of a cheap reliable car. Sold it to him for $2800, and instructed him that if he cared for it properly (with my help, of course, since I wouldn't trust anyone else to), it will last him indefinitely. And any money he would have spend on a new(er) car could instead be stashed/saved for something better.

Last month, my sister and brother-in-law moved themselves and their three little children into their first house. They were able to pile away nearly $20k for a substantial down payment, and when I was helping move them in, he said that he probably would not have been able to do that had he been burdened with a car payment this whole time.

He has put nearly 100k more miles on this Jetta, now nearing 300k miles. Aside from a window regulator (shocking, I know), it has needed nothing at all aside from scheduled PM and a couple sets of tires and a battery. And it has no "end" in sight.

Seriously, people piss away ENTIRELY too much money on buying cars with payments even when they really shouldn't. Take care of what you have, and you will find in the long run (unless it is a complete turd) you will spend far less, and be able to use your resources for more constructive gains. Except for collector classic cars, which cannot be driven normally anyway, cars are and always will be a depreciating asset. You may as well milk every last penny out of them that you can.

But this speaks do another similar point I've stated before and I stand by it (because I see it proven to me daily): the era of 2000-2005 or so, produced some of the best vehicles. And by best I mean the best blend of old and new. Technology, specifically but not limited to, OBD2 protocols as well as just general electronics had matured enough that it was pretty reliable, easy to troubleshoot, relatively inexpensive, and fairly simple. It is also of no coincidence that the TDIs produced in this era were among the best of their breed too. I don't think people realize just how brutally simple the EDC15 and EDC16 engine management systems are. But aside from TDIs, really most everything within that era from every car maker could make at least some claim to simplicity and reliability along the same lines. Many of the pattern failures we saw/see on these vehicles, because there are ALWAYS at least SOME pattern failures, seem simple to downright trivial in comparison to some of the gut wrenching stuff we are seeing now.

Anyone who has had the opportunity to replace the turbocharger on one of these new Honda engines knows what I am talking about. I think back to when Accords were spitting the #1 balance shaft seal out of the front of the engine and spewing oil all over and all the hand wringing we went through over that.... pfft... that was nothing.

All the times we were constantly resealing the leaking intake manifolds on the GM 60 degree V6 engines and thinking how dumb and awful those were... now we see this awful 3.6L engine chucking chains or whatever, heck even the water pumps on most models are a giant pain, I wish we just had intakes to reseal. And I bet the owners of these newer GM bombs would too.

And all my friends from Lexus, who are largely still driving VERY used old LS400s or second gen GS cars, many with over 300k miles on them, get to see the newer cars get their engines splayed apart when all their internals randomly without warning decide to fall to pieces. I was over there this week, they had FOUR engines apart. I don't think they ever had ONE of the old belt driven I6 or V8s apart ever. EVER!

I do not know if it is the regulatory hurdles they need to jump over, or the consumer demand for even more power, or whatever it is, but damn there is some really fragile stuff out there now. We get clapped out 15 year old ChryCo minivans in here still that have their old designed in the late '80s pushrod V6s still trudging along while a 2 year old Pentostar V6 equipped version is in here getting its cylinder heads torn off before it was even due for spark plugs!

If there was ever a case for the EV, this is going to be it. Self fulfilling prophecy.
 
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TomJD

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Location
St. Louis
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI GLS, 2015 Golf TDI
I’m screenshooting that for the next time my wife wants out of her 2004 Corolla with 250k miles.

You can throw in the fact that a financed car requires more expensive insurance.
 
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kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
3. BUNK. The previous-generation Priuses drove like crap because they were previous-generation Toyotas and those ALL drove like crap. I haven't driven the new one but my observation with a current rental Camry is that Toyota appears to have fixed this, at least on some models (including the Camry).
I agree with Toyota improving their overall road feel. I have an 05 corolla approaching 200k miles and have never been comfortable driving it. many reasons but overall, the seat and steering wheel adjustments just don't fit my body. It's slow and vastly underpowered, even compared to my 2000 TDI beetle. All these reasons are why it became my daughter's car. A few months back, I had a brand new corolla rental with less than 500 miles on it. Didn't impress me to put it on my short list of next cars to consider but it is much improved over the 05.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
2. Can be Expensive: The biggest drawback of having a hybrid car is that it can burn a hole in your pocket. Hybrid cars are comparatively expensive than a regular petrol car and can cost $5000 to $10000 more than a standard version. However, that extra amount can be offset with lower running cost and tax exemptions.
Base msrp upcharge for a hybrid Accord is $1600 US and about $1900 for a RAV-4. IIRC, the upcharge for the TDI in my 2010 JSW was $1500. Sure, I guess that some higher priced cars may have a larger upcharge, but those aren't in my budget.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
the era of 2000-2005 or so, produced some of the best vehicles. And by best I mean the best blend of old and new.
Here, here. I've been driving my '15 GSW this week while IBW is getting a timing belt. I've interrupted a regen three times during short trips in the past two days. I know the car is designed for this, but it bugs me. And I wonder how reliably it will work as it ages. None of that nonsense with a rotary pump TDI.
 

jason_

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Location
michigan
TDI
2015 s wagon dsg
I too cringe killing a mid regen....

The oil sitting in that turbo... Eek.... Seals?...

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
 

JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
Seriously, people piss away ENTIRELY too much money on buying cars with payments even when they really shouldn't. Take care of what you have, and you will find in the long run (unless it is a complete turd) you will spend far less, and be able to use your resources for more constructive gains. Except for collector classic cars, which cannot be driven normally anyway, cars are and always will be a depreciating asset. You may as well milk every last penny out of them that you can.
This is EXACTLY why we decided to NOT buy a new-to-us minivan. Our '05 BEW wagon is just too reliable. She starts every time and goes anywhere we need to go. She is the go to work car for both of us since we work opposite shifts. Yeah, she's got a little rust on the rockers but EVERYTHING works.
 

KITEWAGON

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Location
Seacoast, NH
TDI
2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
Here, here. I've been driving my '15 GSW this week while IBW is getting a timing belt. I've interrupted a regen three times during short trips in the past two days. I know the car is designed for this, but it bugs me. And I wonder how reliably it will work as it ages. None of that nonsense with a rotary pump TDI.

It bugs me too. I do try to pay attention to what the car is doing, but I can't always tell and I don't always have time to drive another 5-10 miles to let it finish. I understand why they didn't want to alert the average driver, but it would be nice if there was a light on the dash that could be enabled to tell me when its in a regen.

I'm going through this type of decision with my 2005 pickup. It is going to need lots of thousands of dollars for a suspension refresh and some other stuff and I'm trying to decide whether to keep it. I think I will because I like it, it runs great and it isn't too rusty. Plus newer trucks cost a fortune.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
One of the other. I was half-joking, although, as I've said before, I believe Tesla's sales have peaked, at least in the US. Of course there are external factors that could change sales numbers for the better (fuel price increases) or worse (recession). But I stand by my prediction that Tesla will sell fewer cars in the US in '19 than '18.
 

turbobrick240

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Nov 18, 2014
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I suppose that's possible. But it doesn't make any difference to Tesla's bottom line whether they are getting paid in dollars, euros, yuan, yen, or pesos. It's all money to them.
 

bhtooefr

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Location
Newark, OH
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Much of Tesla's January and February production was shipped to Europe and China, which would affect January some, and February more.

Tesla does this to minimize inventory in transit at the end of a quarter - they produce for further-away locations early in the quarter, then move closer and closer to Fremont.

Additionally, the Standard Range cars have been released in the US, unlocking a lot of latent demand. (Conversely, Model Y preorders are being accepted, so some people may opt to wait for that that would've bought a Model 3 otherwise, because Americans do, to come back to the original topic, like bigger vehicles.)
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Read the article. It's saying something different than what you're saying. Not that you're wrong, but it says that a lot of people bought in December to get the tax credit for '18, before it dropped by half in '19. Registrations lag purchases by a month, and currently I've read you can get a Model 3 in two weeks from purchase, so inventory availability isn't an issue. And you're right, some people may be waiting for the $35K Model 3 to be available.

Also, and this has nothing to do with EV or vehicle size, Tesla can't settle on a marketing strategy. Drop prices, then raise them. Subsidize tax credits, then take it away. Close stores, then re-open some. Buyers like to feel like they're getting a good deal, regardless of the price point. If consumers think they're going to be screwed on a purchase today because of the next announcement from Tesla tomorrow, it might be enough to cause them to look elsewhere.
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2002 (swap from 2L gas); 2016 A3 e-tron
Getting back to Ol' Rattler's hybrid-hating comment, I think i have a pretty good side-by-side comparison here, as we have two MQB cars in our driveway: a Mk7 GSW, and my wife's Audi A3 e-tron (electric with 1.4T gas engine).

If it's "fun drive time", the A3 wins that contest every time: way more jump off the line, more top-end HP, drives/handles better through the twisties.

And living in a small town, and using it as the daily driver (literally), we'll go months without having to put gas in the A3.

So, let's strike common perceptions of the first-gen Prius off reasons of why hybrids are no good;
 

Nuje

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Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2002 (swap from 2L gas); 2016 A3 e-tron
...or did they have low sales because they didn't make enough of them to satisfy demand? :D

A3 e-tron for sure is discontinued for the 2019 model year; 2019 e-tron is the Q5-esque iteration, but all-electric.

I'd love to get the whole backstory on the why/wherefore of the A3 e-tron, given that it was the same basic principle (PHEV with 1.4T) that VW put in the Jetta for a year or two. The A3 was far better executed, given that you just lose some floor depth in the hatch vs. probably 50% of usable trunk space in the Jetta for the battery - but why *only* the A3; why *only* the hatchback version (which I was very happy about - coming from Golf / GSW for the past 20years)? Was it just a stop-gap until they could figure out the full-electric Q5 e-tron? Did they have broader visions for it?
 
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