Failing to start?

Hello everyone. First time posting here. I picked up a new 2014 Passat SEL a couple weeks ago and have had an issue when trying to start it. This has happened a number of times.

When going to start the engine, I push down on the brake pedal and then press the start button. The dash gauges turn on and the chime chimes, but nothing happens. Figuring it might be the glow plugs taking a while to do their thing, I wait, and wait. No start. So I press the button again, turnign off the gauge lights, release the brake pedal, press the brake pedal again and push the start button again. Same thing, no start.

Other times, doing the same start procedure and the cars starts right up without any issue. But it seems to be random. I do the same procedure every time, sometimes it will start, sometimes I have to repeat the procedure 3 or 4 times before it will start.

This isnt my first diesel, and I am aware of the extra time the glow plugs may need, but this does not seem to be the case of the glow plugs taking longer than usual to do their job.

I had another incident that turned out to be operator error, so the hope is this is something similar.

Any ideas of what I may be doing wrong?
Thanks

Look at your MFD when attempting to start. It will indicate whether it thinks you have your foot on the brake. If no indicator, then you at least will be assured that the switch is working. Past that the ECU runs the show. Very likely something simple.

Thanks for the response Nord. On the MFD it says to press the brake pedal, even though I have the brake pedal pressed. THis morning I even pumped the pedal a few times before first trying to start the engine, in case there was a dirty sensor somewhere. Still took a couple tries before it would start.

I'm hoping it is something very simple, like operator error. I love the car, and wish the daily commute was longer. Averaging over 50 mpg combined is fantastic.

I would take a guess and say since your MFD is still telling you to press the brake pedal... maybe your brake pedal sensor isn't working. When you are having the problem are your brake lights turning on when the brake pedal is engaged?

Most likely the pedal sensor. I'm not up to date on whether the sensor uses one signal for both brake and start functions or whether multiple sensors. My guess, given that the car will start after multiple tries, is either a broken wire or a bad connection.

oompaloot said:

Thanks for the response Nord. On the MFD it says to press the brake pedal, even though I have the brake pedal pressed. THis morning I even pumped the pedal a few times before first trying to start the engine, in case there was a dirty sensor somewhere. Still took a couple tries before it would start.

I'm hoping it is something very simple, like operator error. I love the car, and wish the daily commute was longer. Averaging over 50 mpg combined is fantastic.

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Have you noticed that the brake pedal feels stiff/firm? Earlier Passat owners (2012) have commented that the pedal is hard to press in the mornings, making it difficult to start the engine with KESSY because you can't press the pedal down far enough without using significant force.

I had similar issue with a 2013 Jetta & KESSY. Dealer told me to get in the car and press the start button once without pressing the brake pedal and waiting until glow plug light went out. Then press the brake pedal and push the start button to start the engine. Worked every time.

oompaloot said:

Thanks for the response Nord. On the MFD it says to press the brake pedal, even though I have the brake pedal pressed. THis morning I even pumped the pedal a few times before first trying to start the engine, in case there was a dirty sensor somewhere. Still took a couple tries before it would start.

I'm hoping it is something very simple, like operator error. I love the car, and wish the daily commute was longer. Averaging over 50 mpg combined is fantastic.

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Regardless, this is a warranty issue and dealer should fix.

DogParkGuy said:

Regardless, this is a warranty issue and dealer should fix.

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Agreed.

DogParkGuy said:

Regardless, this is a warranty issue and dealer should fix.

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Agreed again.

In my '14 I just hop in, put my foot on the pedal and tap the button. Boom - Start.

Give it up for modern technology! Another frustration endured because we can't turn a key anymore.

You all can have your DSG and your push button start. I prefer the old fashioned way myself. Heck I don't even have a backup camera, or even parking sensors! Oh the horror! How will I ever survive?

Sorry... I'm a smarta$$.

PassatSE4me said:

Give it up for modern technology! Another frustration endured because we can't turn a key anymore.

You all can have your DSG and your push button start. I prefer the old fashioned way myself. Heck I don't even have a backup camera, or even parking sensors! Oh the horror! How will I ever survive?

Sorry... I'm a smarta$$.

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Same here...sporting a base 2012. Sounds like a sensor to me. Hopefully an easy fix.

dzcad90 said:

Agreed again.
In my '14 I just hop in, put my foot on the pedal and tap the button. Boom - Start.

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Same as my 2012. Sometimes I get a key not in range error when it is, but never the foot on brake when my foot is on the brake. Sounds like a problem with the brake pedal sensor or hard pedal preventing you from pushing enough to trigger the brake pedal switch.

peterwinkle said:

I would take a guess and say since your MFD is still telling you to press the brake pedal... maybe your brake pedal sensor isn't working. When you are having the problem are your brake lights turning on when the brake pedal is engaged?

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Brake lights are turned off in the BCM by default until after the car starts. They can be toggled to operate at any time.

nord said:

Most likely the pedal sensor. I'm not up to date on whether the sensor uses one signal for both brake and start functions or whether multiple sensors. My guess, given that the car will start after multiple tries, is either a broken wire or a bad connection.

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If the green icon on the speedo is not lit, the car is thinking that the brake pedal is pressed. However, there are 2 switches associated with the brake pedal. Not sure which is doing what function, but both need to be working. Either way, it's a warranty fix.

When it's very cold here in Canada it takes much longer for glow plugs but I found I wasn't holding start button long enough.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to try a few more things before contacting the dealer. If it needs fixing it needs fixing, but I hate having to leave any car at a dealer and not knowing how well its being cared for.

So far, I haven't noticed any difficulty pressing the brake pedal prior to pushing the start button. When the engine starts, I do feel the pedal go down a little more, and guess thats because some power assist feature is kicking in at that point.

Someone else already said that the brake lights do not turn on without the engine running.

I'm going to try pressing harder on the pedal to see if that does the trick. Slamming doors, pressing buttons hard, heck even turning on the fog lights are all resisted because of not wanting to wear things out. Maybe that behavior is keeping the brake pedal sensor from realizing the pedal really is being pressed.

If this does wind up getting fixed by the dealer, I'll post that info too.

Thanks for all the help.

iantryinit said:

When it's very cold here in Canada it takes much longer for glow plugs but I found I wasn't holding start button long enough.

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Glow plugs on the Passat should take 3 seconds max, even at extremely cold temperatures. You also shouldn't have to hold the start button. Press and release and the engine will start immediately after the glow plug light goes out.

Is this not what you're experiencing on your Passat?

VeeDubTDI said:

Glow plugs on the Passat should take 3 seconds max, even at extremely cold temperatures. You also shouldn't have to hold the start button. Press and release and the engine will start immediately after the glow plug light goes out.
Is this not what you're experiencing on your Passat?

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Well it's the wife's car and she drives/starts it most of the time. The first day we bought it in Dec we had a hard time starting it in the am. Not sure what she changed in her process but when I do it I generally hold button for a few seconds. Heading to lake today and supposed to be -29 sat night. Without the use of our faulty block heater I will report back on the start Sunday.

I expect that you will have an uneventful start. It would be awesome if you could record it for us and post it on YouTube.

And if you're willing to oblige, please start with the normal sequence (foot on the brake, press start button, release, see what happens).

You were right. Started without holding button. I just briefly pressed start button, glow plugs heated up then car started shortly after. Was only -26C but without block heater the Passat made almost as much noise as my F250 starting in the cold!

I did record it but don't have a YouTube account yet.

I've noticed a handful of times where mine didn't start after pressing the button. I just assumed I didn't press the button quite enough or the press was far too short of a duration. It's started after each attempt so far. However, it's noted mentally in the back of my mind that if it begins to occur more frequently, I'll pay a visit to a dealer for some troubleshooting. Like you, I've always been skeptical of leaving my car in the hands of these techs and porters after reading about the bad experiences others have had. Having had a couple of my own, I'm even more skeptical.

I wish techs were a little tedious with their finish work and not just slapping stuff back together and hoping I won't notice. Then again, the average car owner doesn't notice the little stuff, so they figure they can get away with it. I'm far too meticulous and too much of a perfectionist though. Is it too hard to ask for your car to be returned in the condition you left it, aside from having the prior issues remedied? I guess when you're flagging hours, you want to get the job done before the quoted time is up.

Not great quality but my first time trying posting vids.

http://youtu.be/auOs9Q3c4RM

That's a cold start right there!

Dude, that was rough- others have posted much faster starts with 1/4 of the cranking. Your battery however is amazing

It does seem like excessive cranking for a mere -15F.

Also, I just noticed that the DRL icon is different... is that a Canadian thing?

Was cold soaked and not started for 48 hrs prior but yes one of the worst yet. As we normally have it plugged and block atleast like warm.

this guy is a member here as well, he does a double glow and it still started as rough as yours does. (feels like my body this AM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My0SIxZU1Bk

iantryinit said:

Well it's the wife's car and she drives/starts it most of the time. The first day we bought it in Dec we had a hard time starting it in the am. Not sure what she changed in her process but when I do it I generally hold button for a few seconds. Heading to lake today and supposed to be -29 sat night. Without the use of our faulty block heater I will report back on the start Sunday.

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Hrmmm... We have a non kessey car. So when I ran into a similar rough start I always assumed a problem with the battery and I would stop after 2 3 seconds and try again which would fail again. Then I would go and boost the car and ride the starter.

Thanks to iantryinit, I now know to run the started till the car starts or the battery dies.

It seems to do this after -25c when not plugged in for 12hours.

Run the starter until the engine starts, or for not more than 30 seconds, whichever happens first. Being scared of it and only cranking for 2-3 seconds at a time makes the process take much longer and could just result in a dead battery from all of the unnecessary glow cycles and engine cranking.

VeeDubTDI said:

Also, I just noticed that the DRL icon is different... is that a Canadian thing?

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Yes. Canadian / euro cars use symbols for everything. The DOT mandates that the warnings be english text.

-J