The infamous 96-97 Passat tdi wagon & 2002-03 Jetta tdi wagon...

1) Is one better than the other?

2) Why not the 2004-05 Jetta wagon tdi, is there somethng wrong with cars from those two years?

the 04-05's have the PD engine...do a search...you'll quickly see why the earlier wagons are preferred.

...unless you have to drive an automatic, in which case the '04-'05 Jetta wagon is far better choice than auto '02-'03 Jetta wagon.

VW didn't offer automatic on the B4 wagon in the U.S. market.

(The '04-'05 Passat wagon, on the other hand, probably has the best auto tranny of the bunch).

So which isbetter between the 96-97 passat and the 02-03 jetta?

hello from kalispell montana--my 1996 passat wagon needs a new home. she is in great shape and has only 126,000 miles. gets 45mpg and 700+ miles per tank. i can try to get photos to anyone who calls me at 406-257-8503

It's a personal preference thang. The 96-97 PASSAT wagons (very few imported in those years---maybe 3500 each year or so) are larger inside, more leg/foot room in rear seats than the 02-03 JETTA wagons (so if you have kids, the Passat wagons may be a better choice for room), and the 96-97 passat wagons have a much larger fuel tank

Rumors of electrical gremlins in the Passat wagons, and their scarcity, pointed me towards the 02-03 wagons with the ALH tried and true engines. also the electrical systems in the 02/03's were somehwhat better.
In 04/05 Pump Deuse engine were put in the wagons, and these wagons also had a more durable auto tranny than the 02-03 automatic wagons

But the PD engines also had their problems...

However, ask mechanics. How many screwdrivers were hurled at the garage wall per model?

These above are just my impressions. I'm sure someone will offer a different opinion, and that's OK. I have never had a Passat wagon, nor kids, so I am not an expert on either

BoiseTDI said:

So which isbetter between the 96-97 passat and the 02-03 jetta?

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"Tastes great!" "Less filling!"

Depends on your needs. The B4V (96/97 passat) is bigger and has a huge amount of rear seat legroom, but it's an older model and will likely have some rust and other issues, like a saggy driver's seat. The Jetta Wagon will likely be less rusty, and they have newer/nicer conveniences, side curtain airbags, etc. The A4's seats seem to hold up better, but the A4's also have the peeling soft-touch painted interior bits.

Edit after seeing Rxfire's same-time post: The Passats were prone to instrument cluster problems and window regulator problems.

Yeah, I'm torn between the two. I think the jetta looks better and has better conveniences like you said. Unfortunately pricing is so inflated on both of them.

frugality said:

"Tastes great!" "Less filling!"

Depends on your needs. The B4V (96/97 passat) is bigger and has a huge amount of rear seat legroom, but it's an older model and will likely have some rust and other issues, like a saggy driver's seat. The Jetta Wagon will likely be less rusty, and they have newer/nicer conveniences, side curtain airbags, etc. The A4's seats seem to hold up better, but the A4's also have the peeling soft-touch painted interior bits.

Edit after seeing Rxfire's same-time post: The Passats were prone to instrument cluster problems and window regulator problems.

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another tidbit: the jetta wagon will on average get better mileage while the passat will get more miles per tank (already mentioned). If you're a taller person I think you'll fit a little better in the passat and if you have any rear seat passengers over 6' they would really appreciate the passat.

Also, the PD (04/05) engines are not as tolerant of a wrong motor oil for any amount of time (due to their cam-driven injector pumps on each cylinder). I think the ALH engines might handle an incorrect ("bad") oil for a change or 2. So, maintenance records are critical with the PD's...
Someone correct me if I am misinterpreting things here...

And the PD's have the lift pump in the tank subject to failure...

And (please, I have only run varieties of DIESEL in my ALH's---so don't get all bent on me about alternative fuels) the 2002 and 2003's with the ALH and two-stage injector pump may work better with a variety of fuels (in case you have Jet A blends or off-road diesel or kerosene/diesel blends or whatever available and plan to run those mixed with diesel).

The 2009 and 2010 models definitely won't handle those fuels very well due to their emissions systems...

If you are patient, and keep the cash handy, a 2003 will come along at $8 to $9,000 with 90-130,000 miles. But it won't last long. And you might have to drive 6 or 8 hours to go get it. And it might need a timing belt.

If you'll be wrenching on your own, the engine bay on the B4 is plenty large enough for fat fistfulls of tools, no pendulum motor mount, easier strut change-out, no VNT to stick, simpler wastegate control, simpler EGR system (no feedback loop).
Those tools hurled at the garage wall have to be thrown a bit further to clear the B4 fenders.

Lug_Nut said:

easier strut change-out...

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Now let's be fair though. To change the rear shocks on a B4V, you just about have to remove the dashboard...

It's all been said: A4 newer, more sporty, smaller. B4 older, bigger;

Both have their peccadillos.

Lug_Nut said:

If you'll be wrenching on your own, the engine bay on the B4 is plenty large enough for fat fistfulls of tools, no pendulum motor mount, easier strut change-out, no VNT to stick, simpler wastegate control, simpler EGR system (no feedback loop).
Those tools hurled at the garage wall have to be thrown a bit further to clear the B4 fenders.

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So...have your PM'd Bismillah (above), yet?

If you'll be wrenching on your own, the engine bay on the B4 is plenty large enough for fat fistfulls of tools, no pendulum motor mount, easier strut change-out, no VNT to stick, simpler wastegate control, simpler EGR system (no feedback loop).
Those tools hurled at the garage wall have to be thrown a bit further to clear the B4 fenders

I positively agree with everything here. However, let's not forget you will be hurling tools when it comes to dealing with funky exterior door handles (which are expensive to replace in OEM), sticky door latches, especially when each of these are subjected to a cold weather climate!

All that said, my B4V is still my favorite car I've ever owned, and probably always will be.

Don't let the Boise name fool ya. Hell, life's hot down there in Augusta...

It seems like it was only yesterday, Pinto Bennett was a playin down there at Pengilley's and Johnny Shoes was hawkin' his chops to anyone that'd listen...seriously abandoned houses in the north end, and a few old neighborhood covenience stores built into the front end of houses on the street still surviving. Lucky was the brand of choice... them were the days

One other consideration is that the newer Jetta will have better safety in a crash. FWIW 1997 Passats do check that the EGR is working.

-Jason

BoiseTDI said:

So which isbetter between the 96-97 passat and the 02-03 jetta?

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see my sig, I pick both... from a maintenance standpoint (parts and other's knowledge) the 03 is better; as Lug Nut said, the passat has more room to work. The Passat is monstrous; my wife uses it as a farm truck

I am picking up my new (well pre-owned,one owner) 2003 tdi wagon GL, with 46k miles.....am I making a mistake by getting an automatic? I am paying $10500

You're always making a mistake getting an automatic in my opinion... Yes, I understand they're easier to eat the big mac and talk on the cel phone with...
The automatics in these are not very good. See any of the A4 posts on automatic repairs. Plus you'll lose up to 20% of your potential fuel economy vs. a 5 speed.

He might get lucky with that automatic, who knows

This is a good starting point for some reading

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=189029&highlight=automatic

Also, someone was doing automatic valve body enhancements on this forum, as a maybe proactive fix for those automatics

And I think KROUT (or someone in Jacksonville FL) was doing a $2500 auto to manual swap...

So just keep $2500 handy in the event that your luck turns on you

And, hey, there are plenty of folks that will chime in that their autmatics have 150,000 miles, so maybe you will get lucky

Sounds like I got a bad deal.....I guess I have got to askmyself " do I feel lucky"

skellysTDI said:

Sounds like I got a bad deal.....I guess I have got to askmyself " do I feel lucky"

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Skellys, did you see this ad?:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=259260

223k miles on an 01M auto tranny that's still working. Notice that the owner changed the tranny fluid every 50k miles! I don't know what the owner's manual states, but that's more frequent than usual.

If you'd bought an '04+, their automatics are more reliable, but you would have to worry about the PD engine's cam.

With only 46k miles, you'll have reliable transportation for a good while. If you want to increase your odds of keeping it a long time, do 50k tranny oil changes like that guy did.

Yeah it's pretty easy to find a good deal on an auto rig. Makes me wonder if it might be better to get one of those than just swap it out later if needed.

Has anyone seen the Euro Golf wagon on Samba? Pretty nice looking rig but it has that undesireable engine. Pretty spendy for what is essentially a sweetly wrapped Jetta too.

VWWV said:

So...have your PM'd Bismillah (above), yet?

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"absence makes the heart grow fonder" isn't working. There are too many others closer that would be considered, that is: if they were being considered.
I'm really liking my A3 a lot so a B4V isn't presently on my radar.
And I might be jinxing things, but the B5.5V hasn't cost me anything in unexpected expenses the past few weeks so I'm not as annoyed with it as I was.

Lug_Nut said:

"......(snip).. but the B5.5V hasn't cost me anything in unexpected expenses the past few weeks so I'm not as annoyed with it as I was.

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Mine hasn't either since I just replaced the alternator at 71K in August. I'm looking to see if it can make it to November without a hitch...

Always something with these (VW) cars. I am watching CharlieT's thread on the toofed camshaft in his B5.5 wondering if it was the wrong oil that made that happen.

Fair Price?

What would be considered a fair price for a 2003 GLS Wagon w/leather with low mileage? IE: 30-40k or so? Those that have searched awhile, is something with this mileage hard to come buy?

BoiseTDI said:

Those that have searched awhile, is something with this mileage hard to come buy?

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In a word, yep.

The search for the right wagon for me took 9 months and I got one with 106K on it (and all the maintenance done right).

These days you're more likely to get one for less money than I did, but low miles are not so easy. Furthermore, the low mileage ones are not necessarily the best. You can see all manner of threads about low mile city-only cars that are hammered vs. highway cruisers that didn't shift or brake for 100 miles at a crack.

Yes I can see your point on that one. Then again, if they are high mileage cars there is more chance that they weren't maintained properly, as opposed to being driven properly, or enough with a low mileage rig.

quantum_tdi said:

In a word, yep.
...Furthermore, the low mileage ones are not necessarily the best. You can see all manner of threads about low mile city-only cars that are hammered vs. highway cruisers that didn't shift or brake for 100 miles at a crack.

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You can find them but....

you will pay big bucks, in the $15k-$16k range. Cars.com, ebay and craigslist (use crazedlist to search it) are good places to search. You will want a southern car if you are looking for a 7 year old car, despite the mileage, as there is no escaping the salt and weather in the north.

When I was looking for my wagon, I was amazed at how many cars for sale were only driven on the highway with non-smokers in them.

A 2003 wagon with average mileage will have 72,000 - 90,000 miles on it. Look for a southern car to avoid rough winter corrosion.