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VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old October 30th, 2015, 09:17   #1
d21998
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Fuel Economy: 39mpg - 42mpg
Unhappy 2006 Jetta TDI will not start

Hello everyone. I've finally had my Jetta crap out on me. I had some hard start issues and they eventually got worse over the course of the last several months. I had my timing belt replaced 2 years ago. I recently had my EGR valve replaced due to the leaking gasket (hissing noises up to about 25 mph) and also had my clutch replaced. I picked it up at the mechanics and drove it home and I noticed it had a hard start occasionally. Not all the time. But recently It's gotten to where it will not start. Before the battery went dead, if you tried to start it, it would crank over rapidly but never start. If you pushed the gas pedal down a bit it sound like it would try and fire but did not. I've checked fuel to the filter when you turn the key on and it is present. I've tested fuel going to the tandem pump and it is present also. The ASV is open during start. I've taken the lines off to check the valve position. It has half a tank of fuel. I've read posts about the 458 relay being an issue occasionally and since I had one locally for about $14 available, I replaced it. I've called the mechanic where I had the work done and talked to him and he told me to check the lift pump (I did), the tandem pump (as best I could) and the ECM relay. His shop is about 35 miles away so I would need to get it towed there. Is there something I may have missed? Oh glow plugs were replace about three years ago too.
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Old October 30th, 2015, 14:02   #2
cobra390t
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When was the last time you replaced your fuel filter ....? How many miles on the TDi ..? Where you located in NC . DO you have any fault codes . Does the glow plugs light comes on the dash ... More info so we can help you .
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Old October 30th, 2015, 14:18   #3
d21998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobra390t View Post
When was the last time you replaced your fuel filter ....? How many miles on the TDi ..? Where you located in NC . DO you have any fault codes . Does the glow plugs light comes on the dash ... More info so we can help you .
Thanks Cobra. Fuel filter replaced less than 1000 miles ago. My TDI has about 135,000 miles on her. I'm in Charlotte. No fault codes. But I do not have VagCom, only a code reader. Glow plug lights do come on and go off like normal when starting. Any other info you need let me know. Thanks again.
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Old October 30th, 2015, 15:13   #4
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When you say "before the battery went dead..."

Is that from cranking the car so much that the battery died or is there an electrical issue? If you pull the line leading to the tandem pump, and when you cycle the key fuel spits out then your lift is fine. If no codes or electrical issues and lift pump checks out I would be looking at the tandem pump as a possible candidate!
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Old October 30th, 2015, 15:17   #5
d21998
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Originally Posted by OMALLEY_808 View Post
When you say "before the battery went dead..."

Is that from cranking the car so much that the battery died or is there an electrical issue? If you pull the line leading to the tandem pump, and when you cycle the key fuel spits out then your lift is fine. If no codes or electrical issues and lift pump checks out I would be looking at the tandem pump as a possible candidate!
Hi OMALLEY. Yes it was from cranking the car too much. It wasn't a new battery though. Fuel does come out of the tandem pump inlet line when you turn the key to "ON" position. I believe my lift pump is functioning fine. I took the cover off of my fuel filter and it's full of diesel. Is it possible that there may be air getting into the tandem pump line and losing the prime? Thanks.
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Old October 30th, 2015, 15:18   #6
nord
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First rule of diesel is new filters. It doesn't count that they were changed yesterday. Then...

Three components must come together to get a start. Fuel, heat (compression), and air.

Air... Remove the charge air tube from the ASV. Make certain that the valve plate is in the horizontal position when cranking.

Fuel... Lift pump should fill the filter canister and send fuel to the tandem pump. Tandem pump supplies fuel to the unit injectors. No air lock allowed. Excess fuel will be returned to the filter and then the fuel tank. Tandem pumps have been known to leak and fail. Obviously there are the unit injectors and the electrical connections to them. I doubt they are the problem.

Compression... TDI's have a robust lower end. Usually pretty much free of problems. Top end not so much. Cam and lifter failure is somewhat common. Failure of proper valving can restrict inflow of air into the cylinders. This will cause a poor compression due to the lack of anything to compress.

It wouldn't hurt to check your timing at this point either.

Understand... I read your post and believe you. It's just that you claim to have fuel and air, yet your engine isn't starting. No good mechanic or tech would not recheck these items.

Your description of a fast or easy crank and no start makes me suspicious of what amounts to a partial vacuum in the cylinders. Attempt to start the engine with the charge air tube removed at the ASV. If the engine starts and runs, then a problem upstream. If no start, then have someone crank the engine while you place something like a piece of luan over the intake. I suggest this because if the intake is working properly it'll try to pull a bare hand into the ASV. (It won't but it will cause discomfort). If little or no suction, then a totally open EGR valve or a cam and lifter problem. This assuming no restrictions on the exhaust side.

Suggestions without VagCom?

Remove the valve cover and inspect cam and lifters. No sharp edges allowed on the cam and no worn faces. No spalling or cupping of lifters.

If nothing is found, remove the electrical connections on both the ASV and EGR valves after making 100% sure the ASV plate is horizontal and the EGR valve is closed and sealed. Codes will be set but the engine will run quite well in this mode should either unit have failed.

Tandem pump? Are you absolutely certain that fuel is being delivered to the unit injectors and that no air is locking the system?

Somewhere in the above you'll find the problem. My instinct says cam but I could be wrong.
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Old October 30th, 2015, 17:13   #7
d21998
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Hi there Nord. Thanks for the information. Here's some of my answers in red.First rule of diesel is new filters. It doesn't count that they were changed yesterday. Then...
Three components must come together to get a start. Fuel, heat (compression), and air.
Air... Remove the charge air tube from the ASV. Make certain that the valve plate is in the horizontal position when cranking.
I did this. Check. It's in the open position.
Fuel... Lift pump should fill the filter canister and send fuel to the tandem pump. Tandem pump supplies fuel to the unit injectors. No air lock allowed. Excess fuel will be returned to the filter and then the fuel tank. Tandem pumps have been known to leak and fail. Obviously there are the unit injectors and the electrical connections to them. I doubt they are the problem.
Compression... TDI's have a robust lower end. Usually pretty much free of problems. Top end not so much. Cam and lifter failure is somewhat common. Failure of proper valving can restrict inflow of air into the cylinders. This will cause a poor compression due to the lack of anything to compress.
It wouldn't hurt to check your timing at this point either.
Understand... I read your post and believe you. It's just that you claim to have fuel and air, yet your engine isn't starting. No good mechanic or tech would not recheck these items.
Your description of a fast or easy crank and no start makes me suspicious of what amounts to a partial vacuum in the cylinders. Attempt to start the engine with the charge air tube removed at the ASV. If the engine starts and runs, then a problem upstream. If no start, then have someone crank the engine while you place something like a piece of luan over the intake. I suggest this because if the intake is working properly it'll try to pull a bare hand into the ASV. (It won't but it will cause discomfort). If little or no suction, then a totally open EGR valve or a cam and lifter problem. This assuming no restrictions on the exhaust side.
Suggestions without VagCom?
Remove the valve cover and inspect cam and lifters. No sharp edges allowed on the cam and no worn faces. No spalling or cupping of lifters.
Just had cam shaft and lifters replaced about 500 miles ago.
If nothing is found, remove the electrical connections on both the ASV and EGR valves after making 100% sure the ASV plate is horizontal and the EGR valve is closed and sealed. Codes will be set but the engine will run quite well in this mode should either unit have failed.
Tandem pump? Are you absolutely certain that fuel is being delivered to the unit injectors and that no air is locking the system?
I'm not ABSOLUTELY sure. Do I remove an injector and verify fuel flow? And I have no idea how to make sure no air is locking the system. I don't see any fuel leaks around the tandem pump or the lines.Is there a troubleshooting for the tandem pump?
Somewhere in the above you'll find the problem. My instinct says cam but I could be wrong.[/QUOTE]
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Old October 30th, 2015, 18:11   #8
whitedog
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Air, heat and fuel *at the right time* are needed to start. Double check that timing is still correct after the cam change.

To check the tandem pump, there is a plug on the pump you can pull and put a face in there to check pressure. Just to be sure, are you using waste veggie oil for fuel?
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Old October 30th, 2015, 18:23   #9
d21998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitedog View Post
Air, heat and fuel *at the right time* are needed to start. Double check that timing is still correct after the cam change.

To check the tandem pump, there is a plug on the pump you can pull and put a face in there to check pressure. Just to be sure, are you using waste veggie oil for fuel?
LOL. Thanks Whitedog. No Veggie in this TDI.
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Old October 31st, 2015, 09:03   #10
Andrewh
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mine does this occasionally after it sits about a week.
also an 06, but it only has 47k miles on it.

I find that I have to hold down the pedal and crank for a long time.
eventually it sounds like it is trying to catch and eventually rolls fast enough to start.

I have not done a lot of trouble shooting. I have tried to "prime" it by turning the key on and waiting 20 sec and turning it off and on again 20 sec to see if it is a fuel bleed back.
this doesn't seem to affect anything. I still wind up cranking for a min or 2 with my foot on the floor.

if I drive it again right afterwards, it doesn't happen again. even the next day.
I had though about putting a check valve in line as one of the other posts shows to see if that helps.

however, mine doesn't get worse.
when you say gotten worse can you explain?
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Old October 31st, 2015, 09:14   #11
newlitemotorist
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Check the simple things first. When you have a problem like this it's easy to assume the worst but it's usually something silly like a loose ground, electrical connector or failed sensor.
These are some things you could check on your own before you involve your mechanic. First thing you can do is pull the top timing belt cover for a quick visual, make sure the belt is still there... Look for any unusual wear or signs of skippage. This will need to be checked more thoroughly if it comes down to it but rest assured, the damage is done if this is your problem. There is a ground under your battery that likes to cause issues. I would start there. Remove, clean and reinstall your ground wires making sure to clean the surfaces they ground to as well. Make sure all of your electrical connectors are secured. There is a round connector on the right side of the cylinder head that supplies power to the injectors which would cause a no start if it came loose. Another connector to check would he the crank position sensor plug. It may be different on the brm but on the bhw passat this sensor will also cause a no start condition if it were to come unplugged or go had. My old passat had the pigtail of that sensor fail causing a no start and it did not throw a code, verified with vcds. Like others have mentioned, change your fuel filter. Its cheap and you could rule that out if it's not the problem.
An easy way to confirm fuel is making its way to the cylinder is to pull (ALL) four glow plugs and then have a helper crank the engine over continuously. You should observe a fine fuel mist shoot out of each glow plug hole one at a time. This is also how you could bleed the fuel system completely or after installing a fresh set of injectors or a dry cylinder head. Use common sense if you try this please.
From there you start getting into some meat and it may be time to call a mechanic, preferably one who knows tdi's. I hope this helps and that it's something simple in your case.
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Old October 31st, 2015, 12:27   #12
Carlos_TJ
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I vote for the torsion value (timing) out of spec too..
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Old October 31st, 2015, 15:34   #13
cobra390t
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^^^ good point on the torsion value if the cam was replaced and the cam gear wasn't tight to spec might had retarded it self . I was messing with mine trying to get to +1.0 and i moved it to much, Car will not start ..Sound like it was going to but not firing at all .T

Torsion value is such a fine tune that dont take much to get it out of the range which will make the Eng crank but wont fire up //....You Need a VCD for that .. I wish you were close i would lend you a hand but i am 6 hours away to east from you
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Old November 1st, 2015, 06:53   #14
nord
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If air between unit injectors and tandem pump, then lines must be purged as air is compressible. This situation would be very much like air in your brake lines. Not enough pressure being applied to the pads because of air being compressed rather than the fluid acting directly on the pads.

Torsion value? If properly done your timing will be close enough irrespective of minor torsion differences. Torsion will affect overall economy and the smoothness of the engine. Starting might be a bit more difficult if torsion is too far out. Otherwise the engine should start and run.

One thing to note... You realize that a torsion value too far out of spec will give a reading of 0. This is a totally false number and certainly could influence the ability to start and run.

Further, you need to check both your cam and crank sensors. Unfortunately all of these things, purging excepted, require VagCom.
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Old November 2nd, 2015, 04:49   #15
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Any updates?
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