3rd HFPF failure!

skiers · Oct 22, 2014

It happened yet again. Lost all power, glow plug light, massive diesel leak and left me stranded on the side of the road.
For the THIRD time.
Unbelievable. VW is saying they will step up...but ***!?! This is flat out dangerous. 3 times I've been left stranded. This time however, VW says they have changed their policy and don't guarantee a rental car as the policy was changed since my last failure.
Why can't we (meaning me and ALL the MANY OTHERS who have experienced this failure) demand VW replace our cars with a newer model? Can't we put together a class action law suit?

Dirtracr95 · Oct 22, 2014

skiers said:
It happened yet again. Lost all power, glow plug light, massive diesel leak and left me stranded on the side of the road.
For the THIRD time.
Unbelievable. VW is saying they will step up...but ***!?! This is flat out dangerous. 3 times I've been left stranded. This time however, VW says they have changed their policy and don't guarantee a rental car as the policy was changed since my last failure.
Why can't we (meaning me and ALL the MANY OTHERS who have experienced this failure) demand VW replace our cars with a newer model? Can't we put together a class action law suit?

Lol at demanding vw replace your car with a newer model. I understand this is just a heat of the moment demand out of severe frustration.

I would start thinking that there is a fuel quality issue in your area. Do you usually fill up at 1 station and has that been the fuel in the tank when the other hpfp's have gone?

Andrew 179 · Oct 22, 2014

have you seen this:

http://ct.gov/dcp/cwp/view.asp?a=1646&Q=276154&PM=1

skiers · Oct 22, 2014

Dirtracr95 said:
Lol at demanding vw replace your car with a newer model. I understand this is just a heat of the moment demand out of severe frustration.
I would start thinking that there is a fuel quality issue in your area. Do you usually fill up at 1 station and has that been the fuel in the tank when the other hpfp's have gone?

I have a few different stations I've historically filled up at in the area. One newer then the other...but I've filled up there at least 6 times.....it's a heavily trafficked station though. I always make sure of that....thanks for response...

skiers · Oct 22, 2014

Andrew 179 said:
have you seen this:

http://ct.gov/dcp/cwp/view.asp?a=1646&Q=276154&PM=1

thanks but i'm WAY past any lemon law....81K miles and it's a '09

dieseldorf · Oct 22, 2014

Skier, welcome aboard!

SkeeterMark · Oct 22, 2014

Well, I feel bad for your poor luck with the vehicle. Have they fixed it for free each time? If so, I'm not sure what you would sue for.

What are your losses? I don't think the hardship of being stranded and the PITA to get it to them to repair would amount to enough to warrant a lawsuit.

There's no way they would replace a 6 year old vehicle with a new one. That time has come and gone, I'm afraid. The failures over that time period don't even qualify for lemon law, as you point out.

I'm not a believer, but do you use any additives? Have you checked the fuel you are regularly putting in it? (have you continued to use the same station despite previous incidents?) Any chance someone puts or has put gasoline in it, even a little, at times?

Not saying any of that is the case, but maybe some things that could be considered a mild form of preventive maintenance, and you seem to be having more than your share of events with it.

The quality of the repairs could also be suspect.

IndigoBlueWagon · Oct 22, 2014

Three pump failures? I think we're looking at something other than the pump design. I'd suggest that after you get this pump replaced you never go back to any of the local diesel stations you've used in the past. I suspect one of them is giving you bad fuel, or gasoline mixed with diesel. If you're not sure which it might be, then avoid all of them.

psrumors · Oct 22, 2014

Did the entire fuel system get replaced or just cleaned?

If just cleaned, it's possible the mechanics didn't get everything clean.

Maybe take it to a different dealer for the work?

skiers · Oct 22, 2014

psrumors said:
Did the entire fuel system get replaced or just cleaned?

If just cleaned, it's possible the mechanics didn't get everything clean.

Maybe take it to a different dealer for the work?

It was replaced a year ago when the exact same thing happened. I had the fuel filter cleaned at last oil change...

South Coast Guy · Oct 22, 2014

I would ask (emphasize ASK) VW corporate to step up here and give you a substantial credit toward buying a new VW. By substantial I mean some some number between the current value with a working pump and what you paid for it. If they won't, I would just sell the car and move on.

yatzee · Oct 22, 2014

skiers said:
It was replaced a year ago when the exact same thing happened. I had the fuel filter cleaned at last oil change...

you cannot clean a fuel filter. You either replace it, or you don't

Whoever is working on your car has to stop. Wherever you are filling you car, you need to stop going there too. For 3 pumps to fail, there is an external influence. Can't blame VW for this one.

DPM · Oct 22, 2014

interested to hear how a HPFP failure causes a fuel leak...

yatzee · Oct 22, 2014

DPM said:
interested to hear how a HPFP failure causes a fuel leak...

more likely, the fuel leak caused the HPFP to fail

pparks1 · Oct 22, 2014

yatzee said:
more likely, the fuel leak caused the HPFP to fail

That is a very good point.

I remember about a year ago, reading how my hometown Meijer station accidentally put gasoline into their diesel tanks. They ran an add in the paper, and had an email alert warning go out. My family sent it to me as I had visited them during the timeframe of the incident and they wanted to make sure that I didn't get fuel there when I was in town.

I also had a friend get a load of watered down gasoline in a brand new Mustang he had just bought. The gas station actually paid for his repair bills for his car to be towed and the fuel system drained.

skiers · Oct 23, 2014

yatzee said:
you cannot clean a fuel filter. You either replace it, or you don't

Whoever is working on your car has to stop. Wherever you are filling you car, you need to stop going there too. For 3 pumps to fail, there is an external influence. Can't blame VW for this one.

My bad. I meant replace the fuel filter. I have a great mechanic and frankly haven't had to do a ton of service to the car minus standard service and 3 HPFP failures.

skiers · Oct 23, 2014

Thanks all for your responses / input. All are being heeded as I sort through this nightmare. I welcome any and all additional replies. Thanks.

prothe · Oct 23, 2014

I spoke with an common rail injector rebuilder in Germany a few years ago. He said that Germans travel to eastern Europe, and when they get back, they end up having to get their injectors rebuilt, from the bad diesel.

sdeck · Oct 23, 2014

skiers said:
Thanks all for your responses / input. All are being heeded as I sort through this nightmare. I welcome any and all additional replies. Thanks.

You indicated a "massive" diesel leak in the original post and several have commented on it as a possible cause of the failure, not the other way around. Where did it leak? I don't know much about these HPFP systems, but I can envision if you had a major leak between the lift pump and HPFP, it might cause air to get pulled in and cavitate in the HPFP????? A large leak downstream of the HPFP might cause it to "over-speed" as it tried to maintain pressure in the lines?????? Just wild guesses on my part.

Was there ever a post-mortem on any of the pumps? i.e. did someone take them apart and survey the actual internal damage?

skiers · Oct 23, 2014

UPDATE: dealership told me that 3 bolts and 3 clamps were missing that lock down the fuel line to the fuel pump causing the fuel line to leak at the pump. Crisis (major) narrow averted? If true the should be Financial responsibility of dealer who fixed it last… I hope

nate0031 · Oct 23, 2014

sdeck said:
You indicated a "massive" diesel leak in the original post and several have commented on it as a possible cause of the failure, not the other way around. Where did it leak? I don't know much about these HPFP systems, but I can envision if you had a major leak between the lift pump and HPFP, it might cause air to get pulled in and cavitate in the HPFP????? A large leak downstream of the HPFP might cause it to "over-speed" as it tried to maintain pressure in the lines?????? Just wild guesses on my part.
Was there ever a post-mortem on any of the pumps? i.e. did someone take them apart and survey the actual internal damage?

I agree a massive leak might be a cause, not an effect. One thing to note though is that the pump RPM is 1 to 1 with the engine RPM. If a large leak occurred after the pump, the engine would have simply stalled.

Matt927 · Oct 23, 2014

skiers said:
UPDATE: dealership told me that 3 bolts and 3 clamps were missing that lock down the fuel line to the fuel pump causing the fuel line to leak at the pump. Crisis (major) narrow averted? If true the should be Financial responsibility of dealer who fixed it last… I hope

Which fuel pump are you referring to?

There are metal unions that secure the line from the HPFP to the CR and clamps on rubber lines that are supply from the filter I believe.

kjclow · Oct 23, 2014

skiers said:
UPDATE: dealership told me that 3 bolts and 3 clamps were missing that lock down the fuel line to the fuel pump causing the fuel line to leak at the pump. Crisis (major) narrow averted? If true the should be Financial responsibility of dealer who fixed it last… I hope

Typically, repairs are covered for 12 months or 12k miles. I would raise a big stink with that dealer, if they don't step up. Missing pieces is inexcusible.

skiers · Oct 23, 2014

kjclow said:
Typically, repairs are covered for 12 months or 12k miles. I would raise a big stink with that dealer, if they don't step up. Missing pieces is inexcusible.

So far the dealer who did the work is saying if the clamps and bolts were never put on, the leak would have happened long long ago. As if I or someone else decided to randomly remove them. The HPFP was replaced 40k miles ago and it just happened now.

Soliciting opinions here: is it possible the fuel line could have lasted 40k miles without clamps? Because apparently it did.

Matt927 · Oct 23, 2014

Possible.

The line with clamps is not high pressure.

jsrmonster · Oct 23, 2014

Hi,

Does the car always give blinking glow plug, and low fuel rail pressure faults with past fuel system repairs?

Does the car run ok on back roads, but struggle for power and die on highway only?

Get the fuel leak fixed, and clear your faults, and drive it around and report back to us if there are any faults or blinking glow plug icon.

I might know what the problem is, dealers cannot fix this without faults and they are clueless and keep replacing pumps and injectors unnecessarily.

Jeff

nate0031 · Oct 24, 2014

I am intrigued...

showdown 42 · Oct 24, 2014

I assume the fuel that was in the tank was tested and found uncontaminated in each case.

The bit about the fuel line bolts just all of a sudden missing is very odd to say the least. Was there evidence of fuel on the garage floor? We need "Watson" to get some answers.

halocline · Oct 24, 2014

skiers said:
So far the dealer who did the work is saying if the clamps and bolts were never put on, the leak would have happened long long ago.

Unbelievable, keep on them, they'll have to fix it. Their defense is 'it couldn't have been us, if we had done it it would have self destructed even sooner!'

I had a VW dealer put a hole in one of my pistons by dropping a glowplug tip in the cylinder and then trying to start the car. The service manager actually said with a straight face "looks to me like that hole was there before" and when that didn't work, they also tried to tell me (this is totally true) "it's not that bad, it'll run like that for 200K miles'.

These guys will say anything to get out of responsibility for their incompetence. Call VW customer care and write a firm but polite letter, with photos, to the owner of the dealership. Don't bother with anyone else like the service manager.

This is why I will never ever buy a new VW.

skiers · Oct 24, 2014

Matt927 said:
Possible.

The line with clamps is not high pressure.

Is there a way I can PROVE this to them? They are saying that the line with clamps IS high pressure and wouldn't have lasted 40k miles.

I need to prove this to them. That's all I can come up with as a defense at this point.

Thanks

3rd HFPF failure!

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