Off-topic posts from Cam Failure Data Collection thread

donDavide

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mickyTDI said:
Just to add i can confirm that i know off a PD 150 (2002) that cam failed at 100k. The car was serviced by the owner and he has used castrol longlife 506.01 to 507.00 since day one. So it seems some have weak cams and not totally down to the oil.
The argument some people is those oils are causing problem and the oil to use is the 5w40 505.01 do to ZDDP levels
 
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GoFaster

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If you go through the cases that have been identified thus far, there are some cases where the owner has been using 506.01 or 507.00 oils. There are still nowhere near enough cases to draw any conclusions, but for an engine with flat-tappet lifters, the (A) lower viscosity and (B) lower content of known extreme-pressure additives (ZDDP) on the 506.01 and 507.00 oils ain't heading in the right direction. Once again, DON'T draw any conclusions, but the use of 506.01 or 507.00 oils can't be EXcluded yet as a contributing factor, either.
 

mickyTDI

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Well when i had my PD 130 i used the same oil from new 506.01 then 507.00. The new owner of the car has 211k and the cam is still fine. My bet at this stage is some cams have a weakness and using the wrong oil is certainly asking for problems.
 

GoFaster

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We've had previous requests from the original poster to keep this thread for data collection only ... perhaps we should get back on track and leave the discussion for other threads (already did one clean-up to fix this). Any other entries?
 

GoFaster

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SBAtdijetta said:
GoFaster: Another 505.01 oil only car looking bad; a 5w30 one too. Sorry for the non data post.
bolded text = hypothetical problem area ...

(BTW I don't think it's the "5w30" that is the problem, it is the different additive chemistry that came along with it)
 

SBAtdijetta

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GoFaster said:
(BTW I don't think it's the "5w30" that is the problem, it is the different additive chemistry that came along with it)
5w30 was not my intent either, just that the 5w30 oils seem to be the "emissions friendly" low ash/saps ones with different additive packages.
 

PDJetta

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I guess when the PD testing was done at VW, a 130,000 mile cam failure would have been seen as an acceptable failure! That response from VW does suck, though. I want my cam and lifters to go 300,000 miles plus. That, I would feel is acceptable.

--Nate
 

TooSlick

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The VW 506.01, extended life oils actually have a HIGHER additive treat level than either the VW 505.01 or VW 507.00 products. However in order to achieve the SAE 0w-30 grade you have to using a thinner (lower molecular weight), basestock blend which offers inherently poor protection against scuffing wear in the valvetrain. For example, a 10w-30 will typically provide better high temp protection, less volatility and better shear stability than a 0w-30 - even if the HT/HS viscosity of the two oils is identical.

Every oil formulation is a compromise in terms of physical/chemical properties.
The VW 506.01 oils were primarily developed for high fuel
efficiency, hence they're formulated on the thin side and offer less wear protection than an SAE 5w-40....

TS
 
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zanzabar

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2footbraker said:
What cylinder was affected? Were the bearings all equally worn?
Cyliner #1 (the lobes nearest the T-belt). All the bearings were pretty well worn, but the one at the pump end was the worst, there is some bending of the cam or something going on because the wear was not symmetrical...more on the outside of the bearing. The lifters were worn but none were near failure.

 

zanzabar

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just that one set of lobes closest to the T-belt, chamfer gone completely. Others were pretty much ok. I took measurements and there was about 0.10 mm diff between the first set of lobes, and the other three.
 

wjdell

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Brian do you have any UOA history to put this in better light

it appears to be a oil related failure - did not look at all but it seems shearing is the culprit - get to slick to look at those. heat does not seem to be a issue the oil just seems to thin.
 
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iamstuffed

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BrianCT said:
I would not have this type of info. I purchased what VOA VAG recommended in a 501.01 oil through Impex and TDIPARTS and I never went more than 8,000 miles on ea oil change interval.
I think what he meant was: did you ever perform a used oil analysis, a process where you extract some oil from your oil pan, send to a lab, and get wear results back.

It's not something that you would happen upon. In the future, you should probably do spot checks to make sure the failure isn't repeat. You would have noticed additional metal wear rates in your oil samples if you did them periodically.
 

2footbraker

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I don't think a UOA would catch a cam failure in time anyways. A cam can go from looking perfectly fine to horribly rounded off in a matter of 5k miles. And there is still no real solution aside from switching to a different oil.
 

milehighassassin

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5,000 seems like overkill and could cause more damage. There are several threads showing that changing your oil sooner causes more wear. The oil has not had a chance to fully activate and there is more wear in the first 5k miles on the oil than there is on the last 5k miles.
 

milehighassassin

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I would love to see the thread because the one I am talking about has UOA's to back it up. UOA was done at 5k, and at 10k on the same oil, the wear rate was higher in the first 5k was more than the second 5k.
 

hutchman

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I don't know if the wear rate is linear or not but I recently put a DG by-pass on my BRM and ALH. I did a UOA on the BRM at around 10k and Iron was 48. I meant to change and sample again around 15k but ended up not getting around to changing it until around 21-22k! Iron then was 105 which kind of looks like a linear relationship to me but again ... what can you get from a sample of 1. Not exactly rigorous statistical analysis I know.
 

milehighassassin

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I was talking 5k and 10k, you are talking 10k and 22k. There is chance you outlived the oils life and went too long. At 10k there is still plenty of additive left, who knows. Hard to say without seeing it.
 

hutchman

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milehighassassin said:
I was talking 5k and 10k, you are talking 10k and 22k. There is chance you outlived the oils life and went too long. At 10k there is still plenty of additive left, who knows. Hard to say without seeing it.
All my UOA are posted in the database thread if anyone wants to take a gander.
 

wjdell

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Well its a shame Brain - i am sorry you had such a repair when you did follow the rules. VW should have a policy to help, however you did chip.

Question how long did the original tires last. and did you use the club breakin procedure
 
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milehighassassin

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I am sure it changes with each vehicle, but I can show you UOA' that I done personally that prove what I am saying, driving styles, habits and roads will certainly change this.

I was having an iron problem that was from a stuck open EGR, long story short and after a switch to 507, my problem was solved and my UOA's showed less wear as time went on the oil.
 

milehighassassin

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:roll eyes:

For me 507 was the only VAG approved oil that brought my wear down, once again what works for you might not work for me, and vice versa. I had the best wear number from 507, and the 505.01 numbers were not even close. I would change to another oil, but why if this oil is treating me well?
 

Harvieux

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zanzabar said:
Any issues?: Car ran fine on old cam, IQ balance was way off (range of -0.6 to +0.6).
NOTE: These IQ readings are actually excellent and not "way off" as specified. Just thought all would like to know.;) Later!
 
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