Warranty question on re-commissioned 2015

I have done a search and am surprised that is not addressed somewhere. I have a 2015 "re-commissioned" Golf TDI with a leaking rear hatch. I am pretty sure that the rear hatch seal is bad. My VW dealer says that the vehicle is out of warranty on the basis that it first went into service in August of 2014 and that the bumper to bumper warranty therefor expired in Augustg of 2017. Now that the 2015 Mk7's have been on the market through the auction houses, does VW have a specific position as to warranty? I ask because most of the 2015's were originally sold in 2014 meaning that the the three year/36,000 whichever comes first warranty technically expired at some point in 2017 but we all know that for the better part of two years out of those three, the cars just sat at Pontiac MI waiting for the re-commission plan to be approved and performed.
Two months ago I bought my son a '15 Golf TDI from a small used car dealer that had just bought the newly recommissioned and released vehicle at auction for resale. It has 29,000 miles on it. The used car dealer sold it "as-is" but represented that the engine and drivetrain were still under factory warranty. I have no beef with the used car dealer but do with VW. As a lawyer, I think I can make an argument that while the car sat being stored by VW due to actions by VW, the bumper to bumper warranty ought to be "tolled" (as we lawyers call it-meaning the warranty time is no longer running for the time the vehicle just sat and was stored) for the time that the car sat. Before I do my sword rattling routine with VW, I thought it best to ask this group-has VW taken an official position on this yet? I know most of you hate lawyers so please go easy on me. Yes, I could have limited my purchase to Certified Used.

You made the choice when you bought it. Most cars are sold as is. We call them buy back cars not recommissioned. Did you buy this car from a VW dealer? Even the diesel settlement document states terms referencing the "in service" date. I doubt seriously you will be able to win this battle. VW's position is to deny coverage when there is a question at all. Then only revert when forced to.

Lightflyer1 said:

You made the choice when you bought it. Most cars are sold as is. We call them buy back cars not recommissioned. Did you buy this car from a VW dealer? Even the diesel settlement document states terms referencing the "in service" date. I doubt seriously you will be able to win this battle. VW's position is to deny coverage when there is a question at all. Then only revert when forced to.

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If you say so. But I took a look at the sticky threads above this one titled "Buy Back Vehicles" and no, they do not pertain to the vehicles that were bought back, fixed, and put back into the market.
Luckily for me, I happen to have a prior exchange from two years ago with the San Francisco law firm that represented the class action plaintiffs. I have an email out of one of their lawyers asking him if this issue was foreclosed as part of the previous class action litigation.
You imply that there is no remaining warranty at all. I don't think this is correct. I believe that the emissions system including the catalytic has an entirely new warranty on it. IMHO, it all depends upon the terms of the previous class action settlement and I am looking into it. Barring some anticipation and address of this issue in that previous litigation, I have no doubt that a legitimate issue arises. I am not claiming that I or similarly situated owners would prevail, but it is a legitimate issue. Why should VW benefit from the running of warranty period when the vehicles were essentially quarantined and not in use due to a situation that was entirely the [wrong]doing of VW?

Fsonicsmith said:

Two months ago I bought my son a '15 Golf TDI from a small used car dealer that had just bought the newly recommissioned and released vehicle at auction for resale. It has 29,000 miles on it. The used car dealer sold it "as-is" but represented that the engine and drivetrain were still under factory warranty.

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Sounds to me like you purchased a used 2015 car from a non VW dealership with an expired bumper to bumper warranty. had you purchased a certified used or new-old-stock vehicle from a VW dealership, I would think there would be an additional bumper to bumper warranty. I would think the in service date is whenever the car was originally purchased. Not sure you have much of a case but good luck.

Well, fwiw, I am not asking what others think of my legal argument. I am asking if anyone knows whether VW announced any particular position with respect to the Three Year/36 warranty on what I am calling "re-commisioned" Mk7 TDI's?
Please re-read my OP. I asked not to be told "well, you should have bought a certified used from a VW dealer"? If it makes you feel better for some weird reason (maybe you yourself paid extra for a certified used from a VW dealer), I can't stop you, but it does nothing to further the conversation. I laid it all out in my OP. Yes, I realize that I could have purchased a Certified Used. The vast majority of the fixed buy-backs were bought by independent dealers at auction and therefore can not be certified. Heck, I could have done lots of different things than I did, like buying used Subaru I asked a specific question.

Fsonicsmith said:

If you say so. But I took a look at the sticky threads above this one titled "Buy Back Vehicles" and no, they do not pertain to the vehicles that were bought back, fixed, and put back into the market.
Luckily for me, I happen to have a prior exchange from two years ago with the San Francisco law firm that represented the class action plaintiffs. I have an email out of one of their lawyers asking him if this issue was foreclosed as part of the previous class action litigation.
You imply that there is no remaining warranty at all. I don't think this is correct. I believe that the emissions system including the catalytic has an entirely new warranty on it. IMHO, it all depends upon the terms of the previous class action settlement and I am looking into it. Barring some anticipation and address of this issue in that previous litigation, I have no doubt that a legitimate issue arises. I am not claiming that I or similarly situated owners would prevail, but it is a legitimate issue. Why should VW benefit from the running of warranty period when the vehicles were essentially quarantined and not in use due to a situation that was entirely the [wrong]doing of VW?

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I didn't imply that at all. What I said was the original warranty was expired. There is a new emissions warranty that is in effect on these cars, but the wording on its limits is worded with the in service date as the origin timeline. Also, why should you benefit necessarily from VW's situation when you weren't involved at all and you bought the car knowing it was an as is sale? They did announce their position to you and told you it isn't covered, its expired. So the dealer says as well as the original wording to the warranty.

I did not say you should have, and fwiw I didn't buy mine certified or old stock either. I said that you bought a used car that was originally sold in 2014 and therefore, the 3 year/36k mile warranty has expired.

You said a lot in your OP and I was responding with reasoning as to why I believe you were denied. To answer the question you wanted answered, as far as I know VW's only position on extended warranties applies to certified used, and new-old-stock. Outside of those, I would believe they would tread other vehicles as used and apply the original warranty to them.

Not all cars were bought back as soon as the buyback was announced. People are still turning them in now (unless the buyback period has ended. doesn't apply to me so I dont remember). Your car could have sat for 2 years or 2 months before being fixed and sold. VW will likely treat all buyback cars resold at auction or private dealers the same and apply the original warranty to them.

The 3/36 bumper to bumper warranty is unchanged by the buyback and fix process. I’ve seen no mention of extending it. At this point I believe that warranty (not CPO) has expired for almost all TDIs. My car, for example, may be an exception because it was first titled when I bought it in 4/17. So I should have until 4/20 or 36K miles, whichever comes first.

Let me first emphasize that I don't mean to antagonize a soul here. I am asking for information and I appreciate all of your input.

Also, why should you benefit necessarily from VW's situation when you weren't involved at all and you bought the car knowing it was an as is sale? They did announce their position to you and told you it isn't covered, its expired. So the dealer says as well as the original wording to the warranty.

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Who is "they"? I am sure you realize that any warranty from the used car dealer is totally separate and distinct from any remaining manufacturer warranty. I think I made that clear in my OP. Why should I benefit? I can answer that. First, I have purchased six brand new VW's over the last 16 years so I am a loyal customer who arguably deserves some loyal customer goodwill. I just bought my wife a 2018 Atlas SE from the dealer I took this TDI to back in May. This is my first purchase of a used VW. Second, (and already stated) why should VW benefit from a 36 month provision running while more than half of that time, the vehicle was not incurring any normal wear and tear other than sitting outside exposed to the elements while their fiasco of their own making had to be resolved???
I am a fairly successful lawyer (sorry to brag). You don't get successful in my field by following the lemmings. No, I am not calling all of you lemmings. But you have to think for yourself and not just accept convention or "common wisdom". I just got a call back from one of the lawyers involved in the prior litigation. This argument I am making was NOT covered in the prior class action agreement. I intend to press forward.
IndioBlueWagon-I do thank you specifically for your straightforward, on-topic response.

Let me ask your question a different way. Suppose you bought a new car and were then assigned to a temporary job in England for a period of 18 months. During that time, you stored your new car. When you return to the states, do you think that the manufacturer should revise their bumper to bumper warranty to omit the length of ownership where you were not using the car? The bumper to bumper warranty is limited by the terms at the original date of service. Nothing more, nothing less.

Fsonicsmith said:

Let me first emphasize that I don't mean to antagonize a soul here.

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You're a lawyer. I'm sure you never antagonize anyone. (This from a dad with a daughter in law school).

But since you're a lawyer, you should know that your "logic" about the car sitting unused, and the idea of "goodwill" from repeat purchases, have little or no bearing on the warranty. Goodwill may encourage a friendly dealer to pick up some of the repair cost, but VWoA really isn't going to care about your purchase history, whether they should or not.

Go argue the case. I doubt you have a leg to stand on. The courts have upheld an "as is" sale many, many times and that is what this is. You aren't entitled to anything other than the car you bought. Take an hours pay and go get the seal fixed. It will be cheaper than the time you expend going after VW. I don't know why you think they owe you anything just because you bought cars from them in the past. Goodwill is given not demanded.

This isn't any different than if a used car dealer bought a car that had warranty left but then didn't sell it for some time and it just sat on their lot for a year. You expect VW would honor the warranty just because the car sat on a lot somewhere else?

Never mind, it would take a lawyer to come up with this angle on how you are entitled. Maybe you can start another class action suit against them. Probably millions to be made.

Fsonicsmith said:

I have purchased six brand new VW's over the last 16 years so I am a loyal customer who arguably deserves some loyal customer goodwill. I just bought my wife a 2018 Atlas SE from the dealer I took this TDI to back in May.

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VW does not seem to be in the business of goodwill, especially since, oh, September 2015. As others have mentioned, I doubt they care much how many cars you have bought from them, new or otherwise. As suggested, your best bet might be to see if you can find a friendly ear at the dealer that you spent all that money at, they might be able to cut you a deal on the repair. You could always roll the dice for ten minutes on the phone with VW Customer Care to see what the random call agent might be willing to do for you.

As far as your original question, I have seen nothing from the settlement, or otherwise from VW, pointing to any extension of the original warranty for cars that bought back and stored before resale.

Fsonicsmith said:

I have no beef with the used car dealer but do with VW. As a lawyer, I think I can make an argument that while the car sat being stored by VW due to actions by VW, the bumper to bumper warranty ought to be "tolled" (as we lawyers call it-meaning the warranty time is no longer running for the time the vehicle just sat and was stored) for the time that the car sat.

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You may have not been looking for a critique of your legal argument, but, welcome to the interwebs. My first nitpick is that you knew you were buying the car as-is. The second is that the car was not stored due to the actions of VW, the car was stored because the previous owner decided to sell it back to the manufacturer and they sat on it (as the new title holder) until they decided to auction it off (sure they may have had to wait for emissions parts before re-selling it). What other sale item can you think of where a warranty tied to a time clock gets paused, just because, during an intervening sale? The clock never stops, that's the point of having a clock and a distance limitation on the warranty. The manufacturer has no interest in covering deterioration of parts from a car that is just sitting in the old lady's driveway in between her "only going back and forth to the grocery store and church." This is the same as any other used (non CPO) car sitting on a name brand dealers lot until someone finally buys it, I just don't buy you paused clock argument.

2010TDI said:

VW does not seem to be in the business of goodwill, especially since, oh, September 2015.

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I disagree on this point. VW recently replaced the shifter on my son’s Golf out of warranty, because I have purchased and serviced five VW’s and an Audi as six of my last seven vehicles (the seventh is a pickup truck). Servicing at the dealer is an important factor...more important than buying the car there.

However, don’t conflate the goodwill of VWoA, when you ask them nicely for a favor, and they grant it, with making up nonsense arguments about why they are “obligated” to honor an expired warranty when that is clearly BS.

OP: I advise you to stick to the goodwill argument. If you have a habit of using the dealer service department I predict you will be successful.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

The 3/36 bumper to bumper warranty is unchanged by the buyback and fix process. I’ve seen no mention of extending it. At this point I believe that warranty (not CPO) has expired for almost all TDIs. My car, for example, may be an exception because it was first titled when I bought it in 4/17. So I should have until 4/20 or 36K miles, whichever comes first.

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The Golf I recently purchased is in the same boat: titled in 4/2017. Remember when these cars went on the market? There was a lively debate about cost and worth. As a second owner of a “new old stock” car, I’d say having the warranty feels great right now.

I am the first owner of a new old stock car and that is the main reason I bought it. All new car warranties in place including the long running extended emissions warranty. Not to mention my GEICO MBI out to 100k as well.

I predict crickets from the OP.

I know his heart is in the right place (for himself), sadly VW will see it otherwise and look at it more black and white.

Second, (and already stated) why should VW benefit from a 36 month provision running while more than half of that time, the vehicle was not incurring any normal wear and tear other than sitting outside exposed to the elements while their fiasco of their own making had to be resolved???

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I'm going to chime in here even though you said take it easy on you. You come onto a site where people have legitimately been harmed by a fraud committed and covered up by a company and post this crap. No wonder the world is so f'd up with lawsuits. REALLY...you believe you're entitled to an extended warranty on a used car purchased at a third party dealer because the manufacturer of said car purchased it back from the original owner several months ago? What kind of logic is that? Running with the lemmings...how about running with the sewer rats?

I'm sorry if I sound pissed off, I am. Talk about entitlement. The VW agreement clearly stated several options regarding what owners could do with eligible vehicles. They could opt to keep the car as is and do nothing, they could opt to sell the car back but keep driving it up through December of this year, or they could opt to keep the car and have it repaired. Given that owners of these cars had those options, the idea of VW stopping the clock on the warranty once they took possession of a buy back so some future owner could benefit is ridiculous. It wasn't addressed in the original lawsuit because its an idea only a hack lawyer could dream up.

Your goodwill comment is just stupid. VW owes you absolutely nothing for this particular car. You didn't buy it from them, you weren't harmed by the diesel scandal, and you knew you were buying it as is with the only warranty being given being the extended emissions warranty as outlined in the settlement.


Also, I'm curious if you even know the status of the car you bought? For all you know it was bought back by VW, fixed immediately and resold at auction within weeks. Even if they were to stop the clock, when does it restart? Does it restart after its been repaired, sold at auction, or re-registered to a new owner? Also, these cars were never "decommissioned" so they couldn't be "recommissioned." Technically they all could still be operated legally on any road in the US throughout the entire period of the scandal. So while I understand your flawed logic, its about as sane as saying that because you came on here and insulted our intelligence and I spent time responding to you, I should be able to charge you my hourly rate for the time it took to respond to this inquiry. You want a car with a manufacturers warranty...then buy a car that still has the warranty in effect.

Fsonicsmith said:

I asked not to be told "well, you should have bought a certified used from a VW dealer"? If it makes you feel better for some weird reason...

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I'm with 740GLE on this one. Gonna be crickets. Either way, I'm sure a lot of people who bought CPO or NOS feel MUCH better knowing they have some extra warranty and would have saved themselves the hassle of these types of repairs and others like them as well as having the piece of mind that at least some sort of inspection was done prior to the sale. For these (not so weird) reasons I am sure they are extremely happy as opposed to the OP.

chief poncho said:

You come onto a site where people have legitimately been harmed by a fraud committed and covered up by a company and post this crap.

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While people were financially "hurt" (those that dumped the cars before the settlement came out) and ego's bruised by owning a cheating emissions car, I'd wager the increased NOx output on the roads due to the polluting TDI's didn't harm anyone any more than other forms of perfectly legal emissions on the road back in 2009 and still on the roads today.

But each person sees emissions in a different light.