2006 Jetta TDI BRM long cranking issue

Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Hi my 2006 Jetta TDI just passed 200,000 kms and it seems I have encountered my first real issue. All its life the car started almost instantaneously but lately its been taking 3 seconds or more to start.
The car has no codes or check engine light. I check the alternator and battery output is good. Battery has 12.88 volts 14.07 volts running. Thought it might be the glow plugs but they’re good at 1 ohms of resistance pulled them anyways, they looked rough swapped them out with winter coming, problem didn't go away. Fuel filter was changed 25,000 km ago.
Only other thing I can think of is the starter is going, not getting up to the necessary rpm quick enough for the ecu to start the engine but i have not noticed any difference in cranking speed, sounds normal at least. Injector leaking?
This one has me stumped anyone ever encountered this issue? I would like to get it resolved right away at 200,000 km my car is just a baby still.
 

Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Thanks I will try that. Also thinking it may be a tandem pump issue looks like either oil or diesel is leaking from the pump.

Looked for a tandem pump rebuild kit only place that has it available is an ebay seller from Bulgaria for $45 lol I guess the stealerships would rather sell $500 plus pumps. I'll figure this out and post results here my save someone in the future the frustration.
 

sptsailing

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Location
Safety Harbor, FL
TDI
2006 Jetta Manual, stock with Panzer Plate & Franko6 modified EGR cooler & CAM
This sounds like it might have something to do with the fuel supply. There is a good write up about fuel pumps here:
https://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/LiftPump.htm

Do you hear the fuel lift pump in the fuel tank when you turn the ignition on? If it is an early pump that failed, you might experience the symptom you are experiencing.
 

Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Thanks for all the suggestions just finished pulling the starter and taking it apart. Didn't solve the long crank but it a lot cleaner and greased up now lol.

Moving on I’m going to pull the intake and check out my cam if nothing ill order that tandem pump seal kit off eBay its cheap enough. Ill check out the lift pump in the fuel tank and see whats going on there.

No codes and engine runs fine when started until its shut off. Long crank even when the engine is warm and at full operating temperature.
 
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sptsailing

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Location
Safety Harbor, FL
TDI
2006 Jetta Manual, stock with Panzer Plate & Franko6 modified EGR cooler & CAM
As far as I have been able to tell, the fuel after the tandem pump is supposed to maintain pressure for quite awhile after the engine is turned off. If whatever check valve or equivalent function is not occurring, such that the fuel pressure required takes more than original design time specifications to reach its required pressure, that could account for the observed delay. The VW repair manuals that I have repeatedly warn that the fuel system is under pressure, which I attribute to their expectations that even with the engine off, fuel pressure is expected.
 

Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
As far as I have been able to tell, the fuel after the tandem pump is supposed to maintain pressure for quite awhile after the engine is turned off. If whatever check valve or equivalent function is not occurring, such that the fuel pressure required takes more than original design time specifications to reach its required pressure, that could account for the observed delay. The VW repair manuals that I have repeatedly warn that the fuel system is under pressure, which I attribute to their expectations that even with the engine off, fuel pressure is expected.
Might explain the delay, been read into this after the tandem pump the fuel enters the distributor pipe/supply line which feeds the PD injectors. There are two check valves in the tandem pump one for the fuel supply line 109 psi. and another at the connection for the fuel return line 14.5 psi. So if the fuel supply line check valve is damaged broken spring whatever might explain the delay. Not sure if those internal check valves are servicable. Wish I had that speacial gauge to measure inline fuel pressure. Or leaking injectors. Just some ramblings.
 
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Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I removed the valve cover today and learned I need a new camshaft. Looks like I caught it early with one bad lobe and the rest not far behind. Only question is will a new camshaft make the long starts go away not sure but could be related
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
My starts prior to replacing the cam were slightly long. I had 5 of 8 lobes worn. If you have vcds you might try tweaking the torsion a bit, usually right around 0.0 is where it should be although that varies from car to car a bit.

My torsion prior to cam replacement had moved from about -1.0 to -4.9 which I think was a direct result of the cam wear.

After replacement my starts became almost instantaneous, with a +0.5 setting.
 

Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
My starts prior to replacing the cam were slightly long. I had 5 of 8 lobes worn. If you have vcds you might try tweaking the torsion a bit, usually right around 0.0 is where it should be although that varies from car to car a bit.

My torsion prior to cam replacement had moved from about -1.0 to -4.9 which I think was a direct result of the cam wear.

After replacement my starts became almost instantaneous, with a +0.5 setting.
I was not aware of any camshaft torsion value when I changed my timing belt 50,000 miles back I used the locking pins. How much does a VCDS cost? Is that the only tool that can measure torsion value?
 
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Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
http://www.ross-tech.com


If you’re going to drive a vw this is the tool. Yeah there are some Chinese knockoffs made with stolen/pirated code that Ross-tech pioneered that are somewhat cheaper. However there is no instructions on how to operate their devices and no support of any kind.

Keep your eye open on this forum in the for sale section, they often come up for sale but don’t last long.

Here’s the megathread discussion on torsion.


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=336279&highlight=Problem+setting+torsion
 
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sptsailing

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Location
Safety Harbor, FL
TDI
2006 Jetta Manual, stock with Panzer Plate & Franko6 modified EGR cooler & CAM
I removed the valve cover today and learned I need a new camshaft. Looks like I caught it early with one bad lobe and the rest not far behind. Only question is will a new camshaft make the long starts go away not sure but could be related
Since you are going to replace your camshaft, consider reviewing this forum and looking for posts by Franko6 that pertain to camshafts and EGR coolers. I am now in the last part of the break-in process, after having installed both from him and my car has never run better. He has been very helpful to many TDI owners, myself included, and his modified camshafts and EGR coolers seem to have proven quite the improvement. I have recent posts about my recent TDI repairs that you might find of interest as well.

As for Tdijarhead's suggestion to obtain the Ross-Tech VCDS tool, I completely agree with him, so much so that I do not believe anyone should even try to own a BRM VW without one.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
I was not aware of any camshaft torsion value when I changed my camshaft 50,000 miles back I used the locking pins. How much does a VCDS cost? Is that the only tool that can measure torsion value?

Wait, you changed your camshaft 50k ago and already have one worn lobe? Did you buy the cam off eBay and if so what seller?

Did you fix the leaking tandem pump? They usually leak from the seal where it mates to the block.

https://www.idparts.com/tandem-pump-gasket-bewbrmbhw-p-1316.html

They are relatively easy to change out. Do yourself a favor and do not find your parts on eBay or amazon. Unless you’re looking for mud flaps or fuzzy dice.
 

Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Oops meant to say timing belt was replaced 50,000 miles ago the camshaft is the original factory one. I just ordered the billet camshaft kit from idparts.com it includes the tandem pump gasket.
Still on the fence about the vcds never had a need for one but would be useful as i own a 2012 Tiguan as well. I just hope the new camshaft fixes the long crank issue if not i might just get the vcds.
 
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Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
If you’re going to replace the cam then you’ll need vcds to fine tune the torsion. Also there is a video on cam replacement on myturbodiesel.com
 

Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
So I did purchase a VCDS and glad I did cause the first thing that popped up was Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) Code P3007 - No Signal, which explains the long cranks hard start. Not sure why it didn't trip the CEL light. Also my torsion value is reading 0.00.

My new billet camshaft kit from ID parts arrived as well appears to be a very decent kit. Much thanks for the encouragement to get a VCDS only had it for a few hours but wondering how I got to 200,000km without it. Going to investigate this camshaft position sensor, figure out what's going on there then swap out the cam.
 

Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
No input supply power at the camshaft sensor black and white wire with the key turned on for some undetermined reason...…..
 
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Chad.

Active member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Location
Edmonton
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Fixed it. Might help someone in the future reading this here's what it was. The camshaft position sensor G40 has three wires connected directly to the ECU. A black white/strip input voltage should be 5 volts. The middle wire is the signal back to the ecu and a brown wire which is a ground.


Disconnecting and testing the three wire cam position sensor plug in front of the engine confirmed I had 0 volts at the input voltage wire. So I unplugged the 60 pin connector at the ecu. The black white wire is number 27, tested that had 5 volts from the ecu so it was a bad wire. Ran a new wire from the plug to the ecu soldered it in, problem solved starts right up code is gone. VCDS shows I have -2.5 torsion value. Now for the camshaft...
 
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