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WTB: ALH/AHU #3 or #4 Piston and Rod

CommieGIR

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
1998 Jetta 1.9l TDI (2001 ALH motor), 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 2.4TD IDI, 1987 Audi 5000 Quattro 2.4TD IDI
Must be from #3 or #4.

PM me what you have. Just need one more for a conversion.

Prefer it be from an AHU, since that's where I got the other 4.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
VAG rods are used in batched sets, you need one with the same number etched in the bottom. They are different lengths and weights, which is partially why the diesels have differences in head gasket thicknesses.

You can PM Franko6, as he may have a rod with the same number on it (there are only so many), and he may know which ones are "close enough" to work even if they are not the same number.

Pistons can be from a couple difference size groups and several manufacturers, too. Again, need to match.
 

CommieGIR

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
1998 Jetta 1.9l TDI (2001 ALH motor), 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 2.4TD IDI, 1987 Audi 5000 Quattro 2.4TD IDI
VAG rods are used in batched sets, you need one with the same number etched in the bottom. They are different lengths and weights, which is partially why the diesels have differences in head gasket thicknesses.

You can PM Franko6, as he may have a rod with the same number on it (there are only so many), and he may know which ones are "close enough" to work even if they are not the same number.

Pistons can be from a couple difference size groups and several manufacturers, too. Again, need to match.
I am aware.

The ones I grabbed are marked '65' on the bottom, I can get the manufacturing codes off the bottom when I get to the car.

Pistons however: Got a source on that?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I am aware.
The ones I grabbed are marked '65' on the bottom, I can get the manufacturing codes off the bottom when I get to the car.
Pistons however: Got a source on that?

A source? Frank again. He probably has piles of them. Most of the AHUs would have had the same pistons, but I forget which. Could be Alcan or Mahle, 79.47 or 79.49 mm. The new ones would have a color paint dot on them, but obviously the used ones will no longer have that, however if you clean the tops carefully sometimes you can see the size still etched in them. I think Mahle ones usually have that molded in the casting on the underside of the piston.

ALH pistons are slightly different, and better (ring lands), but there are even some better newer versions available too.
 
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CommieGIR

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
1998 Jetta 1.9l TDI (2001 ALH motor), 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 2.4TD IDI, 1987 Audi 5000 Quattro 2.4TD IDI
As requested, here's the piston and rod markings:

https://i.imgur.com/h3Zbn1c.jpg
65 marking. I'll weight the rod alone later, but this is a matched set of 4, I just need one more.


https://i.imgur.com/T5jYESL.jpg
Looks like 79.44mm bore, AB Models (I think there is AA and AB)

Last time I did a replacement of rods/pistons, I just matched the two digit number and maybe I just got lucky but runs great.
 
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Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Brian (OH)has seen my assortment. It comes and goes, with an average 80-120 rods stacked up, with weights and lengths written on each.

Getting a rod weight is not the problem. Accurately producing a rod length is an issue. We could hope the customer is measuring the same as we do, but when the measurement is critical and .004" is the difference between head gasket sizes and the engine you are working on is 1,000 miles away, we like to do it ONCE. When I guess wrong, nobody wants to pay to send it back...

So, rather than mincing around with a 'maybe', we have the customer send their rod and we match it. We will match one rod or we will match a set of rods. But the one thing I know is, there are a lot of rods and they aren't all the same. For example, that rod you show, Commie, is a late version rod and as the rods evolve with VW, they have improved. It is more likely that your set is closer (still not close) to our standards for 'balanced'.

The shortest rod we have is .040" shorter than the longest. The heaviest rod is stamped 92 and it's 35 grams heavier than our rod stamped 42.

But just because you have a rod that is the most common '65' doesn't help that much, because the rod weights average variance is 8 grams. You see, an engine that lives it's life running at 2500 rpm is not one that VW felt the need to get critical with balancing. However, we think getting the engine balanced properly gives not only a satisfyingly smoother running engine, but a balanced engine will last longer.

I know that Commie wants to figure it out all himself, but we aren't going to do the back and forth. It goes against our 'Do It Once and Do It Right" mantra.

If you want a rod balanced to the set, you have to send at least one. We would prefer to do the work, but I get it. Not everybody wants to balance their own piston/ rod sets like you.

It's the same thing with pistons. The variation in weight for the same version of piston can be up to 20 grams. You can't cut 20 grams off a piston to match. You have to know what you have to know what you will need. But truth be known, I'd probably go with a better piston anyway.

The ALH style piston you show does at least have a brass bushing in the wrist pin. The issue with the AAB engine you are working on is that is a very gutless motor (77hp, stock) and for a 5-cylinder engine, I'd be looking to get it to pull at least double that to justify all the expense this engine will take to build and install. We have built several 5 cylinder engines and it takes going to Europe to get some of the parts like head gasket kits, cams... $$$$!

The other thing we usually see is the usual wear on the pistons and cylinder walls that allows enough blow by to bother us. We have come up with a beautiful fix with a piston coating that is very durable. and if the cylinder wall wear exceeds .0035" (our cylinder wall wear limit for stock bore) we have found an in-between piston ring that works beautifully.


Let me know what you want to do, Commie.
 

CommieGIR

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
1998 Jetta 1.9l TDI (2001 ALH motor), 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 2.4TD IDI, 1987 Audi 5000 Quattro 2.4TD IDI
Let me know what you want to do, Commie.
In that case I'll send you a piston and rod set. I understand your concern, this has been a long goal of mine and importing a pre-built AEL from an Audi C4 was just financially not in the cards.

I've done all the measurements for the connecting rods and converting the AAB to TDI, the 2.5l TDI head will arrive in two weeks, ordered several headgasket kits to keep a stock on hand.

Regardless, I think the project will work.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Btw: We have LOTS of 3-4 pistons. Maybe even some you might prefer over the ALH version. The issue with ALH pistons is the top ring is only a 6mm drop.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Well, that was an interesting conversation, Steve. Thank you for your time. I'm sure we will find the satisfaction of working together on what is not the usual custom engine.

I look forward to hearing back from you.
 
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