2 cycle oil as fuel additive

Does low or no ash content 2 cycle oil mixed at a rate of 2 ounces for each 10 gallons of diesel help lubricate pump and injectors?

not as well as B2.

dieseldorf said:

not as well as B2.

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Bravo.

dieseldorf said:

not as well as B2.

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Let me rephrase (damn, I,m sounding like a lawyer).

Your answer leads me to beleive it does help...but not as well as B2?

I've tried the mix of 2 ounces of no ash content 2 cycle oil to 10 gallons of diesel for the past four, 10 gallon fill ups. The normal sound I've had from the fuel pump has decreased and performance has been smoother, but not increased. I drive 450 miles a week...all interstate at 70 to 80 mph. My 2000 Jetta has 103,000 miles. I have averaged 45 mpg over the past 60,000 miles without the 2 cycle oil additive.

As far as I know there are are no B2 fuel sources available along my daily driving route.

Is there any definitive proof or opinion the 2 cycle oil will extend the life of the fuel system.

Thanks DD

No, there's no proof apart from anecdotal commentary shared by those selling the product.

Isn't adding a quart of BD per fill-up a lot easier?? There's lots of BD in ME.

dieseldorf said:

There's lots of BD in ME.

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Quit drinking it!

Sheesh. Send 'um to school, teach 'um how to make BD and they drink it.

I would stick with the products designed for the use. I suspect there would be little to loose or gain from using it.

I've been using 5oz of DieselKleen & 2-3 oz of marine two stroke oil in every other tank for 200k mi in my car and 1.15k in the wife's. Seems to run smoother and quieter, the oil must be lubricating something. JOHN

When testing diesel fuel for lubricity, how much of a wear scar does fuel treated with ashless 2-cycle oil leave compared to fuel treated with an additive designed to increase lubricity?

I forget the name (and abbreviation) of the apparatus used to test diesel fuels for lubricity. It basically tries to scuff metal against metal through a film of fuel test the fuel's lubricity. The smaller the "wear scar" left behind, the better the lubricity.

n1das said:

I forget the name (and abbreviation) of the apparatus used to test diesel fuels for lubricity.

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There's two of them, actually, and both have a horrible abbreviation:

Scuffing Load Ball On Cylinder Lubricity Evaluator - SLBOCLE - ASTM D 6078-99

High Frequency Reciprocating Rig - HFRR - ASTM D 6079-99

SLBOCLE uses a steel ball bearing partially immersed in the test fluid and loaded against a rotating ring. Add force until you get a measurable scuff mark on the ring.

HFRR uses a steel ball bearing held against a stationary disk - the ball goes back and forth at 50 Hz with 200 g on it for 75 minutes and the resultant wear scar is measured when the rig is lubricated with whatever fuel you're checking.

The higher the load applied in the SLBOCLE and the smaller the scar in HFRR correlate to higher lubricity in the fuel.

73

I run 4 ounces of synthetic 2-stroke premix to every tank(BelRay H1R) If it helps lube a 2-stroke engine turning at 11K, mixed at 40:1, I have a feeling it helps my injection pump..




I would also love to put this up against BioD, I have a feeling the results would be very surprising...

LNXGUY said:

I run 4 ounces of synthetic 2-stroke premix to every tank(BelRay H1R) If it helps lube a 2-stroke engine turning at 11K, mixed at 40:1, I have a feeling it helps my injection pump..




I would also love to put this up against BioD, I have a feeling the results would be very surprising...

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There are others out there who have similar thoughts. Thanks for your insight.

You guys are focusing upon the possible benefits to the engine. What about the environment? There are reasons why people are being encouraged (or forced in some places) to replace their two-cycle engines with four cycle. 2-cycle stinks for one.

I doubt if anybody knows what 2-cycle oil does to the emission control stuff but it probably isn't too good.

Bruce

blaz said:

(snip) I doubt if anybody knows what 2-cycle oil does to the emission control stuff but it probably isn't too good. Bruce

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__. If it's ashless (and I'd be amazed if you can find any non-ashless 2-smoke oil anywhere) it wouldn't make much difference. Diesel fuel is oil. 2-stroke oil is oil. If the 2-stoke component burns cleanly and leaves no ash, then it's no different from any other component in the fuel.

__. That being said, I'd agree with most of the other posters that 2-stroke oil is likely to give minimal improvement compared to other, more specialized additives. And, please, nobody pipe up with the old Marvel Mystery Oil bit.
'

I bought me an itty-bitty bottle of 2-cycle oil & used it in my jetta.
Don't think it hurt anything. It was an environmentally friendly way of disposing of the 2-cycle oil. I only wanted the neat little squeeze & measure plastic bottle to refill with diesel fuel additive, which, unfortunely, isn't sold in neat little squeeze & measure plastic bottles.

What about the environment? There are reasons why people are being encouraged (or forced in some places) to replace their two-cycle engines with four cycle. 2-cycle stinks for one.

It is not the oil mixed with the gas that is the problem, it is the two-cycle combustion that is the problem.

While I have an opinion, I will state 2 facts.

1) 100 to 1 (gas/two stroke oil) is sufficient lubrication for engine internals under moderate stress. This is the common ratio in current 2 stroke outboards and jet ski's with oil injection. Engine internals in two stroke engines need lubrication and will not operate for any time at all without lubrication.

2) HFRR tests show that low lubricity fuels such as non additized ULSD and Kero respond very favorably to the addition of oil, even when in very small quantities. While the type of oil used does make some difference, the results are nearly always similarly positive. In other words, the addition of 1% oil results in a HFRR wear scar significantly reduced.

Beliefs:

I think 2 stroke oil is much more likely to remain mixed than other forms of oil.

I think 2 stroke oil is a better choice than used motor oil or new 30W non detergent oil.

BTW, Major engine manufactures allow the use of motor oil as an additive in diesels when kero or a fuel of low lubricity is used!

Chris

EDIT: I have experience using Jet A1 with 2 stroke oil added, filtered used motor oil added, new ND motor oil added and without additives in diesel gensets. This much I can say. Used motor oil and new motor oil STINKS so badly, like an old car with bad rings. Two stroke oil burns complete enough that one cannot detect any difference in exhaust smell. The addition of oil helps the engines run better and certainly helps the injection system live. Without the use of lubricant, the injectors go bad within a few hours.

It is not the oil mixed with the gas that is the problem, it is the two-cycle combustion that is the problem.

Yes, that would make sense.

But somehow I've get the the idea that this is just another case of: Hey! It's a diesel, it'll burn anything. Why don't I try xxxx and see what happens? Anecdotal evidence follows ...

Or maybe it's that my engine is a PD, and from what I've read, you have to be more paranoid about what you put in it.

Anyway, thanks.
Bruce

blaz said:

You guys are focusing upon the possible benefits to the engine. What about the environment? There are reasons why people are being encouraged (or forced in some places) to replace their two-cycle engines with four cycle. 2-cycle stinks for one.

I doubt if anybody knows what 2-cycle oil does to the emission control stuff but it probably isn't too good.

Bruce

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I dunno how anyone can drive a diesel and honestly say a 2-stroke stinks.. Thats pretty ironic if you ask me. 4-8 ounces of premix into a 16 gallon tank is not going to do a thing to your emission control devices, the last thing I am worried about is toasting my cat because I have put a few ounces of premix in the tank. The biggest reason people hate 2-strokes is the sound (atleast when it comes to the recreation portion of things) Most modern 2-strokes have a powervalve, and when that valve opens up and the combustion camber becomes a little bigger and the engine starts to breath better, watch out!! 2-strokes are dead easy to maintain easy to fix, even if there is complete engine failure (a re-ring, hone and you are back in business.. No bent valves, no messed up cams, no this, no that) Personally, if I ever do pick up another bike (just sold my YZ), it will definitely be of the 2-stroke nature. And how can anyone complain about the power? I waste 450 4-strokes with my lowly 250 2-stroke.

if I ever do pick up another bike .. it will definitely be of the 2-stroke nature.

Not likely unless you get it used. 2-stroke engines of all kinds are being regulated out of existence.

LNXGUY said:

I dunno how anyone can drive a diesel and honestly say a 2-stroke stinks.. Thats pretty ironic if you ask me.

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My 2005 Passat doesn't stink !!!!
(Aside: now, now girl, he didn't really mean it. He just doesn't know any better because he drives an OLD JUNKER)

Seriously, there's no comparison to the local ATV's, Jet-Skis and Snowmobiles, or that 2-cycle lawn mower I recently replaced with a 4-cycle.

I have to tell people that it's a diesel otherwise they would never know. But as earlier posted, it's probably as much due to the engine design (2-cycle-vs-pd-tdi) than the actual oil-in-fuel.

Bruce

LNXGUY said:

I dunno how anyone can drive a diesel and honestly say a 2-stroke stinks.. Thats pretty ironic if you ask me. 4-8 ounces of premix into a 16 gallon tank is not going to do a thing to your emission control devices, the last thing I am worried about is toasting my cat because I have put a few ounces of premix in the tank. The biggest reason people hate 2-strokes is the sound (atleast when it comes to the recreation portion of things) Most modern 2-strokes have a powervalve, and when that valve opens up and the combustion camber becomes a little bigger and the engine starts to breath better, watch out!! 2-strokes are dead easy to maintain easy to fix, even if there is complete engine failure (a re-ring, hone and you are back in business.. No bent valves, no messed up cams, no this, no that) Personally, if I ever do pick up another bike (just sold my YZ), it will definitely be of the 2-stroke nature. And how can anyone complain about the power? I waste 450 4-strokes with my lowly 250 2-stroke.

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I love my kx500

mrGutWrench said:

__. If it's ashless (and I'd be amazed if you can find any non-ashless 2-smoke oil anywhere) it wouldn't make much difference. Diesel fuel is oil. 2-stroke oil is oil. If the 2-stoke component burns cleanly and leaves no ash, then it's no different from any other component in the fuel.

__. That being said, I'd agree with most of the other posters that 2-stroke oil is likely to give minimal improvement compared to other, more specialized additives. And, please, nobody pipe up with the old Marvel Mystery Oil bit.
'

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Wally World sells it....Super Tech TC-W 3..."high quality ashless 2 cycle engine oil..."

Funny I just found this thread. I put lawnboy 2 cycle ashless in today. I do it a few times a year.

Joe_Meehan said:

if I ever do pick up another bike .. it will definitely be of the 2-stroke nature.

Not likely unless you get it used. 2-stroke engines of all kinds are being regulated out of existence.

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They are working on it. Modern 2 strokes are cleaner and more effecient than they were 5 years ago. One of the biggest issues emissions wise was the 2 strokes would push some unburnt fuel out the exhaust. But this issue has been solved with..... Direct Injection!

By using direct injection they are able to prevent any unburnt fuel from exiting out the exhaust. This makes 2 strokes cleaner and more effecient without any comprimise in power.

2 strokes are not going anywhere any time soon.

FYI,

To anyone that wants to use some 2-stroke oil in their TDI I would suggest one of the following.

BelRay H1R
Full synthetic Yamalube
Silkolene Comp2 or Pro2.

Actually you can find plenty of low-ash 2-stroke oil if you know where to look. Bombardier engines have all required low-ash oil. The ash is really metal (zinc is my guess, but I'm not sure) and required to lubricate the rotary valve in their rotex engines. When used in their engines, it is the right thing, but it must never be used in anything else.

A 2-stroke engine, running in the powerband can beat any other engine as far as fuel efficiency and emissions. However the powerband is maybe a couple hundred RPMs, and at any other range they are horrid.

hank miller said:

Actually you can find plenty of low-ash 2-stroke oil if you know where to look. Bombardier engines have all required low-ash oil. The ash is really metal (zinc is my guess, but I'm not sure) and required to lubricate the rotary valve in their rotex engines. When used in their engines, it is the right thing, but it must never be used in anything else. (snip)

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__. Thanks, Hank. This is good info - but let me ask to be sure that I understand you correctly. You're saying that Bombardier wants a "low-ash" oil and not an "ashless" oil? Having disposed of my last two-smokes recently (a pair of Maico rotary-valve road racers), I can understand about the need to lubricate the rotary valves - mine would get razor sharp after being run a few hours!
'

the 2 stroke is still around, RX-8 uses it. I mix some 2 stroke oil with gas in my 87 scirocco. The car is driven rarely and the oil is good in keeping everything in the CIS mechanical injection well lubricated

cage said:

Funny I just found this thread. I put lawnboy 2 cycle ashless in today. I do it a few times a year.

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Why not every tank? I mean, does it clean out the tank/injectors, or is it a lube? If lube, I'd think you should use it all the time, no?