Please help me max out my MPGs

Im looking to squeeze as much MPGs as I can out of my Jetta, I'll take any suggestions, tips, or ideas you guys have for me.
A little background.....
2002 Jetta TDI, 149,000 miles, did an Auto to 5-Speed swap a year and a half ago (so it has the smaller 158 nozzles with 11mm pump), and I did a Ventectomy a week ago.
Any tips would be great! Please tell me what Mod you think I should do, what kind of improvement on MPGs the Mod will do, and how much it costs. Also, I already know it has a lot to do with how you drive your car. So please just stick to actually Mods instead of telling me to change my driving habits.... you'd be preaching to the chior.
Thanks guys!
-Fred-

What kind of mileage are you getting now after the swap? I did nozzles and a Molane tune and get 47-50 city and freeway in my Jetta.

Just put the car into a state of good repair and keep it there.. After you have done that, it really is just a matter of changing your driving habits/routes to maximize fuel efficiency. I looked into a fifth gear swap a few years ago and it just didn't seem worth it to me.

Bill

My '03 ("Black One") is pretty much stock equipment other than Sprint 520 nozzles. Timing is advanced via adaptaion w/VCDS. Tires/wheels are stock, just inflated to about 40+ psi. Scan Gauge helps to see where you save and where you don't. Other than the nozzles, none of these things cost anything. They all help for mileage. The '03's mpg average is a bit better than my '01 (which is set up almost identical, but it's driven in the cold season).
Lots of good tips here:http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=200694

Just make sure whatever mods you do are cost effective. I did the math awhile back (and I'm too lazy to do it again now), but a 5mpg bump over 100,000 miles will only save you around $500 or so. If your mods cost more than that, it's not cost effective. Just keep the tires pumped up to their sidewall max and watch the right foot.

Also, even though you did the ventectomy, be sure to fill up until you see fuel, not foam, at the top of the filler neck for accurate mpg results. It takes several "top off, let the foam settle, repeat" cycles to do this, but it's accurate, and will let you go farther between fillups.

accuracy of pump reading?

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Also, even though you did the ventectomy, be sure to fill up until you see fuel, not foam, at the top of the filler neck for accurate mpg results. It takes several "top off, let the foam settle, repeat" cycles to do this, but it's accurate, and will let you go farther between fillups.[/QUOTE]

Do you ever doubt the accuracy of the pump volume reading when stopped and started so many times? Even with the ventectomy it takes about 10 to 15 cycles to get my NB full and foam free.

I fill with the pump on its slowest setting. Most times the foam is not there or greatly minimized. I do something else like windows or trash while waiting. Vent the last part slowly up to the neck opening. Works for me.

Seapking of fuel foam, it will affect the accuracy of your data on each tank so this is my solution: One finger over fuel pump nozzle hole prevents foam! Who knew ...


Regarding $$$ vs MPG, I wouldn't mind doing a little math:

Example 5mpg improvement, well that is hard to turn into dollars unless we know what the current MPG are, so lets take a range of steps from 40mpg to 50mpg. As for dollars, fuel seems to cost between 3 to 4 dollars per gallon in the USA and 4 to 5 dollars per gallon in Canada so lets pick an easy number in the middle like 4 dollars per gallon (remember, this is for the NEXT 100,000km driven) or aprox 1 dollar per litre. The reason I like to use litres per hundred km is that it makes it real easy to calculate the actual fuel savings per 160,000 km (100,000 mi):

40 mpg = 5.88 lhk = baseline mileage a 5spd ALH should get
45 mpg = 5.22 lhk = above average
50 mpg = 4.70 lhk = super star

above average difference = 5.88 - 5.22 = 0.66 lhk saved * 1600 km
= 1056 litres (and dollars) saved vs baseline

the super star difference = 5.88 - 4.70 = 1.18 lhk saved * 1600 km
= 1888 litres (and dollars) saved vs baseline

Therefore it is possible to save $800 to $1000 for every 5mpg jump in fuel economy over 100,000 miles, depending on where you start out and end up.

This will definitely pay for a Scangauge to monitor fuel consumption. After using a Scangauge I don't know how I ever lived without one.

A boost gauge is also a very good investment which will give an instantaneous readout of your current fuel consumption because whenever you are making boost, the computer is likely to be injecting more fuel. Also the boost gauge lets you know if your turbo control system is working properly, and it is fun to watch.

lowflyer said:

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Do you ever doubt the accuracy of the pump volume reading when stopped and started so many times? Even with the ventectomy it takes about 10 to 15 cycles to get my NB full and foam free.

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Not really. Too many consistant tanks over many different pumps. Most all the pumps have a sticker on them (for what that's worth) that says to the effect: Accurate at any fill speed/volume. Then there is usually the outdated certification sticker by the (MN) State's Department of Weight /Meausures.
After the initial pump auto shut-off, then I fill as slowly as possible w/o clicking on and off. Seems to minimize the foam. Finger over the nozzle vent hole works, but pump won't auto stop, so watch carefully to not overfill/spill.

NarfBLAST said:

Seapking of fuel foam, it will affect the accuracy of your data on each tank so this is my solution: One finger over fuel pump nozzle hole prevents foam! Who knew ...


Regarding $$$ vs MPG, I wouldn't mind doing a little math:...

....it is possible to save $800 to $1000 for every 5mpg jump in fuel economy over 100,000 miles, depending on where you start out and end up.

This will definitely pay for a Scangauge to monitor fuel consumption. After using a Scangauge I don't know how I ever lived without one.

A boost gauge is also a very good investment which will give an instantaneous readout of your current fuel consumption because whenever you are making boost, the computer is likely to be injecting more fuel. Also the boost gauge lets you know if your turbo control system is working properly, and it is fun to watch.

Click to expand...

I too, think the SG is the best $$ I've spent to increase mileage.While it does nothing to mod the car, it does help to become better at managing the driver. Can monitor boost on the SG thru the MAP setting. Along with load and throttle position, etc. Got the last SG for the '03 off ebay and it already had some x-gauges programmed into it. Wouldn't be the same w/o it.
Other than that, I attribute a couple mpg to the bigger Sprint nozzles. Better mileage and better power when you want/need it. No loose situation, but the payback is minimal unless you are due for new squirters anyways.
Advanced timing has helped me a bit, but maybe not for everyone.
Nice to see some newer interest in the Fuel Economy section. It seems to be kind of the least busy part of the site lately, although there's not much for "new" information.

stink finger??

NarfBLAST said:

Seapking of fuel foam, it will affect the accuracy of your data on each tank so this is my solution: One finger over fuel pump nozzle hole prevents foam! Who knew ...

What do you do with your "stinky finger"? (couldn`t help it,lol) I think I`ll just wait for the foam to settle. I can imagine the stares you get.

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With modern cars there is little we can do from a mechanical point to improve our mileage. However most people can make a noticeable change by changing their driving style.

I'm currently getting about 46-47MPG on a good road trip. I've heard a good ECU tune and the right nozzles can improve both power and mileage as long as I keep my right foot out of it. Any of you had a tune and nozzles done? What kind of improvements did you see in mileage? Who did you go to for the tune and what size nozzles?
THANKS!

ItsADiesel said:

I'm currently getting about 46-47MPG on a good road trip. I've heard a good ECU tune and the right nozzles can improve both power and mileage as long as I keep my right foot out of it. Any of you had a tune and nozzles done? What kind of improvements did you see in mileage? Who did you go to for the tune and what size nozzles?
THANKS!

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As I mentioned earlier, my nozzle change helped a little and a chip may help a bit, too. Doubt it would be cost effective, but may increase the fun factor (w/mpg loss). Nozzle and chip and you may want to do a clutch upgrade from the DMF.
It's kind of all about how much is your time worth. My last few tanks have been an average of about 56 mpg. I could do better, but I'ld have to drive slower, and I'm not wanting to do that, nor are the rest of the commuters along my 2 lane route, either.

jettawreck said:

As I mentioned earlier, my nozzle change helped a little and a chip may help a bit, too. Doubt it would be cost effective, but may increase the fun factor (w/mpg loss). Nozzle and chip and you may want to do a clutch upgrade from the DMF.
It's kind of all about how much is your time worth. My last few tanks have been an average of about 56 mpg. I could do better, but I'ld have to drive slower, and I'm not wanting to do that, nor are the rest of the commuters along my 2 lane route, either.

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Already had the Clutch upgraded when I had the 5 Speed swap done. It's a Sachs clutch and its supposed to hold up to 300ft lbs., but I doubt I'll ever get close to 300ft lbs haha.
56MPGs?! I'd kill for that kinda mileage! Looks like a tune and nozzles are in my near future.

Just remember those last few mpg's are the hardest to get!

Lightflyer1 said:

Just remember those last few mpg's are the hardest to get!

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Very true!! Its fairly easy to add the first 5 mpg or so, but to try to add on another 5 mpg is another matter. That's one reason I've never went for a chip/tune. At where I'm at now I would never recover the cost thru mileage gains. Power/performance is quite good right now.

Kind of like losing weight. The first 20 lbs comes off fairly easy. That last 3 lbs you really, really have to work for.

Here's what I have done to help my mileage. Some of these points are experimental and debateable whether or not they have increased my mileage or not, but I believe they have:


Lowered idle speed in Adaptation
Advanced timing to 4.5 Deg
"Hybrid" 205 Deg T-stat
Lots and lots of preventative maintenance
Used water mist through the intake to decarbonize/clean piston & valves
Correct TDI oil
.681 5th
DRL disable
Stage 1 Radiator fan disable(to allow higher running temps)


So far with the above mentioned modifications I consistently get 54-56 MPG in town, and about the same on the Hwy.






Aditional things I am experimenting with/mental modeling:

Post turbo venturi based coolant heated passive fog/water vapor injection system. Hoping it will increase MPG's a bit, and keep the combustion chamber and valves clean.

Cyclonic CCV air/oil separator.

Heat wrapped exhaust manifold and exhaust side turbo heat wrapping.






..

The best and most effective mod by far is the RFM (right foot mod) and it's free to boot.

TDIMeister said:

The best and most effective mod by far is the RFM (right foot mod) and it's free to boot.

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True, that and plently of PM items searched out and repaired.







..

So please just stick to actually Mods instead of telling me to change my driving habits.... you'd be preaching to the chior.
Thanks guys!
-Fred......
end quote
funny how nobody wants to hear anything about right foot discipline yet we all know it the single largest facter with the OP's question... well ..Ok then,
1. pump your tires up tp max less 2#'s cost $0 =2mpg
2. remove spare tire and all unnessary junk fom trunk etc. $0 =1mpg
3. LRR tires $$120.00 each = 2mpg
4. Sprint 520 nozzels $ 350. = 2mpg
5. Rocket chip tune $300- $500.= 3mpg
6. Scanguage 11 to modify driver $ 160. = 3mpg
7. 195 fh thermostat $12. , and timing adaption advanced via vag com to 4.5= 2mpg
8. Straight through exhaust w/2.5 downpipe , 3" out the back $500.=1mpg
some will challenge the idea of how larger nozzels ad chip tune help mpg's. I found that the extra low end torque keeps me in revs lower and extra power propels me with less fuel.
I may not have actual mpg's gains completely correct but I experienced 10+ mpg increase combined from my first month of ownership. Today I'm able to net 60-65 mpg back to back tanks during warm summer months, no guff, and no bragging, just a great car.
yeah.. I 've spent some buck's , but the car is sure more fun to drive, and sounds nice. Take your pick and happy TDI'ing Ladies and Gent's

Taller gearing. 6-speed swap with 0.622 6th.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=327268

A general comment:

Using higher tyre pressure is a common recommendation. It generally will result in better mileage. As long as you don't overdo it, it likely safe and good advice. However just like having too low a pressure in your tyres, too much is also less safe.

Your car normally will have a recommended pressure for your tyres, and on the sidewall they will have a maximum pressure. That is not a recommended pressure. They tyre company can only tell you that the tyre is safe at a given pressure if they have tested them on the same make and model as you own.

I generally set my pressure to two or three PSI over the recommended, That is my choice and I believe that it is safe considering my driving conditions. Yours likely are different than mine.

Unless someone has done the required testing (test track on the same make and model car) they should not assume that what may work for them and be safe, may not be all that safe for your neighbors car and driving habits.

Good Luck and drive safe.

Added tips for winter driving-Keep your fan speed set to a minimum to get the engine to heat up as fast as possible. A cold engine guzzles fuel. If you have heated seats, shut them off when you feel you butt getting warm. Turn off rear window defogger once you can see whats behind you- The alternator acts like an engine brake when loaded up. kind of like the a/c compressor in summer, but to a lesser degree. Oh yes- Once your front windshield is clear, and the cabin is warn, set the hvac knob to floor-vent mode- If left on defrost the a/c compressor cycles to dry cabin air to prevent windshield from fogging up again. Ajust as needed.- A/c compressor is a big robber of mileage..Happy motoring!

I've had a few small mods done:

* Remap (79hp -> 103hp)
* mild aero parts (exhaust tunnel cover, front wheel winglets)
* 4-wheel alignment
* Tyre pressures 38/36 psi (standard = 32/30)

Between them that got me from 72mpg to 75mpg. The cost was high enough that I'll never recover it from the fuel savings (nor did I expect to).

What I want to still do:
* Fit subframe spoiler (air dam)
* Fit LRR tyres once my current ones have worn out

But really... the benefit from mods is usually very small.

Mike: Of what you list, with the exception of the re-map (I don't know about that one) nothing you listed appears to be a likely problem. I do wonder about the mpg. How are your measuring the mpg. Are you adjusting from metric to US?

Joe_Meehan said:

... I do wonder about the mpg. How are your measuring the mpg. Are you adjusting from metric to US?

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Those are Imperial (UK) MPGs, you'll notice I also use UK mpg in my signature etc


75mpg UK is roughly 63mpg US.

Joe_Meehan said:

...Of what you list, with the exception of the re-map (I don't know about that one) nothing you listed appears to be a likely problem.
...

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Each of the mods has had a small positive effect on MPG. But the effect is small - from a mathematics viewpoint I haven't got enough data to put a statistically significant number on it.

I'd be really surprised if a mod gave a large improvement - most of the cost-effective mods have already been done by the manufacturer, so to use the current jargon, 'there are no low-hanging fruit left'.

jgeorge said:

Added tips for winter driving-Keep your fan speed set to a minimum to get the engine to heat up as fast as possible. A cold engine guzzles fuel. If you have heated seats, shut them off when you feel you butt getting warm. Turn off rear window defogger once you can see whats behind you- The alternator acts like an engine brake when loaded up. kind of like the a/c compressor in summer, but to a lesser degree. Oh yes- Once your front windshield is clear, and the cabin is warn, set the hvac knob to floor-vent mode- If left on defrost the a/c compressor cycles to dry cabin air to prevent windshield from fogging up again. Ajust as needed.- A/c compressor is a big robber of mileage..Happy motoring!

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Since I live in Nebraska, and it can get as cold as -30 in the winter, I installed a block heater about and year and a half ago. FrostHeater.com It works great and the car starts right up everytime with instant heat. I think it was about $100 and it was totally worth it!

fuel mileage improvement

Now that is an excellent addition- Has it affected your belly pan? I've been thinking of getting one myself, but worried about the clearance between the belly pan and oil pan.