Managing a sooty tailpipe

GTiTDi · Sep 22, 2015

meerschm said:
SO, where does the idea that the LP EGR difference flow trips the error at 100 mg/str come from? is it stated someplace, from experience, or just a rough guess?

the difference between pressures noted during test of basic settings on block 67...Matt said so in his post...

CNGVW · Sep 22, 2015

Remember the point of my resigned EGR filter/test kit is to hold off the P0401 for a while.
I have test a lot of mediums and found what works best.
we are only sampling a small amount of EGR gases to the EGR cooler .
So the point is if you have a P0401 you have big problems $$$$$

I did give one to the TDI fest as a give away I just hope that person test it.

meerschm · Sep 22, 2015

GTiTDi said:
the difference between pressures noted during test of basic settings on block 67...Matt said so in his post...

I understand Matt said so.

my question is where this comes from.

is it spelled out in a document someplace?

has Mat or someone else verified the correlation between a difference in Block 67 basic setting values and the error popping up? (run basic settings block 67 on a car with the P0401 and seen differences below 100 mg/str?)

what kind of difference value would a brand new exhaust system show?

I am just trying to understand.

(and get to an informed guess how long I may have before the sooty tailpipe translates in to error codes and an MIL)

Matt-98AHU · Sep 22, 2015

I used to work at a dealer and unfortunately, VW does not make finding this data all that easy. I did find these spreadsheets on their ServiceNet when I was still working there. I took an image and cropped out information that is for dealer and VW Techline assistance use only:

CBEA/CJAA DPF Checksheet:

CKRA DPF Checksheet:

meerschm · Sep 23, 2015

Matt,

Thank You so much

focused on the CBEA, looks like the low pressure EGR filter test includes use of Basic settings 78 and mb 100.

such a shame that VW does not include this detailed info on erwin.

did they have other info, like which test conditions and steps lead to the Pxxx codes?
the Helm service manuals for my old chevy had several pages for each family of codes.

meerschm · Sep 23, 2015

CNGVW said:
Remember the point of my resigned EGR filter/test kit is to hold off the P0401 for a while.
I have test a lot of mediums and found what works best.
we are only sampling a small amount of EGR gases to the EGR cooler .
So the point is if you have a P0401 you have big problems $$$$$

I did give one to the TDI fest as a give away I just hope that person test it.

did they let you know who won the auction?

Jeta Life · Sep 24, 2015

Nice attempt at a little levity Mike, you're usually so serious on your posts.
Please besides telling me to read more again, what do you make of the Dieselgate situation ?
Is it as grave as it sounds on that thread ?
I quit beer a couple of months ago but kick started the brews once again and feel a little better now.
I'm at a loss of what to do and am just taking the old sage advice of drive more and worry less.
Easier said than done.

meerschm · Sep 24, 2015

Still trying to be the straight man.

I think the "switch" is a disaster, as far as VW reputation goes, but later will prove to be an interesting story. lots of intrigue and drama behind the scenes, if I had my guess. plenty of "what took you so long to find them" to look into for the EPA and state regulators as well.

as a practical matter, it will not be too much. sometime between now and whenever, VW will come up with and have approved a set of fixes for the various cars involved, and may or may not offer some incentives to entice owners to go along.

I would not let this sideshow influence your drinking or not. (more free advice)

I would not be surprised if my DPF crack clogs my EGR valve before they come up with a fix, and then I will put the replacement DOC/DPF and NOX and EGR filter I picked up into the car and press on. with any luck, my DMF will fail simultaneously, if it is going to, and I can drop the subframe and do them both while it is off.

when I get a little more time, I plan to put what my car looks like, basic settings wise, into some kind of better format, and track it as the soot does whatever it will.

it already seems my HP EGR difference is lower than the values suggested in the info Matt shared.

Jeta Life · Sep 24, 2015

Nothing wrong with being the straight man, it's all good. Don't let anybody change your style.
I am trying to stay away from the sideshow and the various never ending parade of clowns (entertaining reading) but do retreat with a 12 ounce bottle of suds, only one per day, everything in moderation, sipped slowly while hearing the crickets and birds on the porch.
I forgot that you had already prepared for the p0401 doomsday of reckoning and are already prepared to dig into the trenches and turn the wrenches if need be. True, drama serves no purpose in the theater of the TDIs inner workings.
You're already way ahead of the game if you can figure out, some of us clowns just like to make some noise and that's really all it is. Mechanics and engineers now that's what's going to get this all figured out.
My P0401 was steady and tailpipe soot was the only symptom, no engine loss of power and only a slight mpg difference.
Mechanic said the EGR filter will keep soot away from engine but if DPF becomes overly clogged, limp mode kicks in to prevent further damage I was told. I just felt uneasy driving with P0401 for months so I got it taken care of. I don't think anything you can do will prevent a future DPF fix. The thing is the car ran fine even with p0401 so car may function with a DPF in a cracked state, letting those emissions thru the tailpipe keeping it breathing somehow.
Thanks

wilcharl · Sep 25, 2015

Was thinking about Dr. Bob's redesigned filter again (I gotta admit this thing intrigues me)

Assuming it has a lest restrictive media that would catch crud but not clog up... essentially stuff would pass thru the filter...

Now its next stop is the turbo and the intake right... What does the crud due to the turbo? can the turbo handle it or will it fod it up?

hymato · Sep 25, 2015

Ok guy UPDATE time: back from the dealer Twice. P0401 code and sooty tailpipe, told them it was cracked. They did software update and sent me on my way. Next day light back on, back to dealer this time they wanna charge me $500 dollars to replace the EGR filter! After flipping out to VWoa they just charge me labor of $282.00. How long to you guys think before the EGR filter clogs? I have 20,000 left on the emissions warranty. I'm gonna call the dealership again Monday and complain more. Any Tsb pages would help.

meerschm · Sep 26, 2015

meerschm · Sep 26, 2015

hymato said:
....... How long to you guys think before the EGR filter clogs? ....

That is the magic question. will depend on how cracked the DPF is. (or is it how the DPF is cracked)

Hope we can get some idea watching the right basic settings over time.

meerschm · Sep 26, 2015

I logged some more data over this week.

again on my 2009 jetta
151,000 miles
tailpipe internal wipe with a paper towel comes up with surface soot.

MB 100-3 (DPF differential pressure) 3 mbar (828 rpm, MB 100-1 234 c pre-cat)

Basic settings 78: called for in the EGR filter test.

(note that VCDS does not have this as a pull down menu, you need to put the value in and hit the go button.

Before pressing the on/off/next button,

with the engine idling (and warmed up, I had just driven home and had a DPF regeneration complete at the end of the drive, taking a couple minutes to boot up the laptop.

820 rpm

BS 78-1: 3 mbar
BS 78-2: 20.4
BS 78-3: -3 mbar
BS 78-4: 282 C

after pressing on/off/next

1350 rpm (estimate from dash)

BS 78-1: 87 mbar
BS 78-2: 45.2
BS 78-3: -3 mbar
BS 78-4: 270C

difference (BS 78-1 minus BS78-3) is 90 mbar, which is under the 100 mbar 'should be'

the BS 78-2 is identified in the sheet Matt posted as "filter" while VCDS has no identifier

wilcharl · Sep 27, 2015

For what its worth, I was walking the CarMax lot today and they had an A3 TDI. I did the finger sweep and found a bit of soot... but i saw a lot of soot on the bumper (it was white)

no clue if it had a new DPF but there were no CEL on it

CNGVW · Sep 30, 2015

To update on my findings it is best to use basic setting 67 EGR Low Pressure function to test the EGR filter.
For it to through a P0401 it must be very close to the 100 mg/str .

After a forced drive regen and the New EGR filter /test kit my numbers are
mileage 159,459 tail pipe very sooty
EGR on 350 mg/str 40.2%
EGR off 530.0 mg/str 99.4

On my own test car stage 2 tune/ and DSG tune after 9 months is is still at 160 mg/str
and still no P0401 code or light.

meerschm · Oct 1, 2015

so your basic settings 67 EGR difference is 180 mg/str

( mine is at 175 mg/str difference)

what does your basic settings 78 look like?

the sheet that matt posted http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4895896&postcount=65 said to look for difference in BS 78/1 minus BS 78/3 of less than 100 at a temp (BS 78/4) over 200C

mine (78) read around 90 on Saturday after a DPF regen, but today is at 75 mbar (after pressing on/off/next and the rpms go up a bit)

meerschm · Oct 2, 2015

So one more update. Going from a hint in the P0401 sooty pipe TSB, I wondered what variability would be per the DPF regeneration cycle.

I ran the basic settings 78 twice today, first after my drive to work, and again on the way home. (had a DPF active regen on the way home indicated on my PF03 watching the DPF status change to FF02, and watching elevated exhaust temps and the measured and calculated soot levels decrease)

with 120miles since last regen
calculated soot 15.9 grams

BS 78 1-4: (72, 51, -3, 204) difference of 75 mbar

this afternoon, less than two miles after the end of an active DPF regen,

calculated soot of 6 grams

BS 78 1-4: (82, 51, -3, 264) difference of 85 mbar.

still lower than the suggested should be of 100,

so it seems this value varies with conditions.

if the actual real time test for the P0401 is similar to this basic setting, it is easy to see how it would start with an error once in a while, and then a steady error as it gets more clogged up.

CNGVW · Oct 2, 2015

I just had one come in with the news flash done at the dealer. Had a pP0401 light on too.
They never redid the basic setting and adaptions after the flash??
And the tail pipe was black/ black DPF is cracked!!
After installing my EGR filter/ test kit it took a long time to go through the readiness.
The Heated O2 and Converter are still hanging .I have done 2 regens and 50+ miles over 2 days still hanging . I have a felling that the new flash will take a long time to go through the readiness .

meerschm · Oct 3, 2015

Bob,
Did you run a couple of the relevant basic settings on one of the cars with the P0401?

( I still want to guess that the interim emissions flash may have altered the setpoints for the P0401 error, since a couple folks have reported getting the flash, and the P0401 shortly after the update)

perhaps a before and after you put your "egr filter/test kit" on.

Thanks

CNGVW · Oct 3, 2015

I will next time do a before and after try the BS 79 and record it. But could you do a test for me ?
Clear the codes and do a drive regen then check all the readiness flags.
Do you have the latest flash( need to know that)
How long dos it take to have all the monitors set ( converter and O2 heater)

meerschm said:
Bob,
Did you run a couple of the relevant basic settings on one of the cars with the P0401?

( I still want to guess that the interim emissions flash may have altered the setpoints for the P0401 error, since a couple folks have reported getting the flash, and the P0401 shortly after the update)

perhaps a before and after you put your "egr filter/test kit" on.

Thanks

meerschm · Oct 3, 2015

Sure,

I am off on a six hour drive. that should cover it.

will stop a few times and check.

I do not have the latest update. As far as I know, I had the DSG software updated, (for recall, and it now shows the gear number in drive and sport) but no engine controller update I am aware of.

(does the engine controller identification info on VCDS indicate the flash updates?)

meerschm · Oct 3, 2015

every entry tells a story. *****indicates added comments to a VCDS log file. other entries are from saving various screens.

Code:

*******the day before a drive,  just finished a DPF regen

 Friday,02,October,2015,14:53:26:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
                Address 01: Engine  (03L 997 016 P)
 14:53:23
  0 km   Mileage Since last Regen
  159 ml   Particle Filter Oil Ash Volume
  6.0   Soot Load(g) Calculated
  0.0   Soot Load(g) Measured
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
*****First,  show all readines monitiors passed
                
Saturday,03,October,2015,09:39:33:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8
 Number of DTCs stored: 0  --  MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring:  Passed
Fuel System:  Passed
Comprehensive Components:  Passed
Catalyst monitoring:  Passed
Heated catalyst monitoring:  Passed
Evaporative system monitoring: Not installed.
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring: Not installed.
Exhaust Gas Recirculation:  Passed

***then, reset codes, and log the failed readiness monitors

Saturday,03,October,2015,09:39:58:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
 
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8
 Number of DTCs stored: 0  --  MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Fuel System:  Passed
Comprehensive Components:  Passed
Catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Heated catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Evaporative system monitoring: Not installed.
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring: Not installed.
Exhaust Gas Recirculation:  Failed or Incomplete

***Log mileage

Saturday,03,October,2015,09:41:16:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
 
                Address 01: Engine  (03L 997 016 P)
 09:41:15
  3VWPL71K89M272852 VWX7Z0H72491JO           Vehicle Ident. Number (VIN)
  244100 km   Vehicle Mileage 

***Some of the readiness monitors clear after a couple minutes

Saturday,03,October,2015,09:47:16:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
 
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8
 Number of DTCs stored: 0  --  MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring:  Passed
Fuel System:  Passed
Comprehensive Components:  Passed
Catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Heated catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Evaporative system monitoring: Not installed.
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring: Not installed.
Exhaust Gas Recirculation:  Failed or Incomplete


Saturday,03,October,2015,09:57:34:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
 
                Address 01: Engine  (03L 997 016 P)
 09:57:01
  244100 km   Vehicle Mileage 
  312.0°C   Temperature prior Turbo Charger
  234.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  240.0°C   Temperature prior Precatalytic Converter
  234.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  21 mbar   Particle Filter Different. Pressure
  0xFF01   0xFF02=Done 
  10 km   Mileage Since last Regen
  6.9   Soot Load(g) Calculated
  0.0   Soot Load(g) Measured


Saturday,03,October,2015,10:01:28:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
 
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8
 Number of DTCs stored: 0  --  MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring:  Passed
Fuel System:  Passed
Comprehensive Components:  Passed
Catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Heated catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Evaporative system monitoring: Not installed.
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring: Not installed.
Exhaust Gas Recirculation:  Failed or Incomplete


Saturday,03,October,2015,10:16:05:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8
 Number of DTCs stored: 0  --  MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring:  Passed
Fuel System:  Passed
Comprehensive Components:  Passed
Catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Heated catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Evaporative system monitoring: Not installed.
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring: Not installed.
Exhaust Gas Recirculation:  Passed


Saturday,03,October,2015,10:21:00:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
                Address 01: Engine  (03L 997 016 P)
 10:20:58
  244140 km   Vehicle Mileage 
  216.0°C   Temperature prior Turbo Charger
  222.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  210.0°C   Temperature prior Precatalytic Converter
  252.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  3 mbar   Particle Filter Different. Pressure
  0xFF01   0xFF02=Done 
  40 km   Mileage Since last Regen
  8.1   Soot Load(g) Calculated
  0.0   Soot Load(g) Measured


Saturday,03,October,2015,10:22:08:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
 
Mode 9 : Calibration Identification
 Type 02 - VIN : 3VWPL71K89M272852 (Address E8)
Type 04 - Calibration ID : 03L997016P  8681 (Address E8)
Type 06 - Calibration Verification Number : 12FFD699 (Address E8)
Type 0A - Controller Name : ECM-Engine Control (Address E8)
Type 0B - In-use performance tracking :
    OBD Monitoring Conditions Encountered count : 3085
    Ignition cycle count : 6661
    Conditions completion count / Specificied conditions encountered count
         NMHC Catalyst : 446 / 186
         NOx/SCR Catalyst : 0 / 0
         NOx Adsorber : 1422 / 3085
         PM Filter : 0 / 0
         Exhaust Gas Sensor : 0 / 0
         EGR and/or VVT : 2625 / 3065
         Boost Pressure : 0 / 0
         Fuel : 0 / 0

Saturday,03,October,2015,11:07:13:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mode 9 : Calibration Identification
 Type 02 - VIN : 3VWPL71K89M272852 (Address E8)
Type 04 - Calibration ID : 03L997016P  8681 (Address E8)
Type 06 - Calibration Verification Number : 12FFD699 (Address E8)
Type 0A - Controller Name : ECM-Engine Control (Address E8)
Type 0B - In-use performance tracking :
    OBD Monitoring Conditions Encountered count : 3085
    Ignition cycle count : 6662
    Conditions completion count / Specificied conditions encountered count
         NMHC Catalyst : 446 / 186
         NOx/SCR Catalyst : 0 / 0
         NOx Adsorber : 1422 / 3085
         PM Filter : 0 / 0
         Exhaust Gas Sensor : 0 / 0
         EGR and/or VVT : 2625 / 3065
         Boost Pressure : 0 / 0
         Fuel : 0 / 0


Saturday,03,October,2015,11:49:17:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8
 Number of DTCs stored: 0  --  MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring:  Passed
Fuel System:  Passed
Comprehensive Components:  Passed
Catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Heated catalyst monitoring:  Passed
Evaporative system monitoring: Not installed.
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring: Not installed.
Exhaust Gas Recirculation:  Passed
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mode 9 : Calibration Identification
 Type 02 - VIN : 3VWPL71K89M272852 (Address E8)
Type 04 - Calibration ID : 03L997016P  8681 (Address E8)
Type 06 - Calibration Verification Number : 12FFD699 (Address E8)
Type 0A - Controller Name : ECM-Engine Control (Address E8)
Type 0B - In-use performance tracking :
    OBD Monitoring Conditions Encountered count : 3086
    Ignition cycle count : 6662
    Conditions completion count / Specificied conditions encountered count
         NMHC Catalyst : 446 / 186
         NOx/SCR Catalyst : 0 / 0
         NOx Adsorber : 1423 / 3086
         PM Filter : 0 / 0
         Exhaust Gas Sensor : 0 / 0
         EGR and/or VVT : 2626 / 3066
         Boost Pressure : 0 / 0
         Fuel : 0 / 0

***next, see soot levels increasing, exhaust temps pretty normal.

Saturday,03,October,2015,11:50:03:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
 
                Address 01: Engine  (03L 997 016 P)
 11:50:02
  244280 km   Vehicle Mileage 
  228.0°C   Temperature prior Turbo Charger
  240.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  234.0°C   Temperature prior Precatalytic Converter
  270.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  5 mbar   Particle Filter Different. Pressure
  0xFF01   0xFF02=Done 
  190 km   Mileage Since last Regen
  13.2   Soot Load(g) Calculated
  1.5   Soot Load(g) Measured

****next log, caught the car in DPF regen.  the calculated soot has already started to decrease. exhaust temps elevated.

Saturday,03,October,2015,12:48:36:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
                Address 01: Engine  (03L 997 016 P)
 12:48:35
  244380 km   Vehicle Mileage 
  474.0°C   Temperature prior Turbo Charger
  384.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  450.0°C   Temperature prior Precatalytic Converter
  456.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  13 mbar   Particle Filter Different. Pressure
  0xFF02   0xFF02=Done 
  290 km   Mileage Since last Regen
  15.3   Soot Load(g) Calculated
  1.2   Soot Load(g) Measured

***and once the DPF regen (which the car called for) is finished, the last readiness monitors are cleared. this took three and a half hours on the road.

Saturday,03,October,2015,13:05:38:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8
 Number of DTCs stored: 0  --  MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring:  Passed
Fuel System:  Passed
Comprehensive Components:  Passed
Catalyst monitoring:  Passed
Heated catalyst monitoring:  Passed
Evaporative system monitoring: Not installed.
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring: Not installed.
Exhaust Gas Recirculation:  Passed
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mode 9 : Calibration Identification
 Type 02 - VIN : 3VWPL71K89M272852 (Address E8)
Type 04 - Calibration ID : 03L997016P  8681 (Address E8)
Type 06 - Calibration Verification Number : 12FFD699 (Address E8)
Type 0A - Controller Name : ECM-Engine Control (Address E8)
Type 0B - In-use performance tracking :
    OBD Monitoring Conditions Encountered count : 3087
    Ignition cycle count : 6663
    Conditions completion count / Specificied conditions encountered count
         NMHC Catalyst : 447 / 186
         NOx/SCR Catalyst : 0 / 0
         NOx Adsorber : 1424 / 3087
         PM Filter : 0 / 0
         Exhaust Gas Sensor : 0 / 0
         EGR and/or VVT : 2627 / 3067
         Boost Pressure : 0 / 0
         Fuel : 0 / 0

Saturday,03,October,2015,13:06:48:51928
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150904
[URL="http://www.Ross-Tech.com"]www.Ross-Tech.com[/URL]
  
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
                Address 01: Engine  (03L 997 016 P)
 13:06:44
  244410 km   Vehicle Mileage 
  210.0°C   Temperature prior Turbo Charger
  222.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  234.0°C   Temperature prior Precatalytic Converter
  258.0°C   Temperature prior Particle Filter
  3 mbar   Particle Filter Different. Pressure
  0xFF01   0xFF02=Done 
  0.0   Requested Regenerations
  20 km   Mileage Since last Regen
  2.7   Soot Load(g) Calculated
  0.0   Soot Load(g) Measured

I reset the codes, then set off on my drive, logging readiness, status, and a few measuring values.

the last OBD readiness did not reset until after the DPF regeneration which I caught at a rest area 0xFF02, which was followed by a short 0xFF20, which I think is the deSOX cycle, and usually is much longer.

I may add some notes tomorrow.

Andy_2009_JSW · Oct 4, 2015

160 mbar: Houston, we have a clog

meerschm said:
Sure,
I do not have the latest update. As far as I know, I had the DSG software updated, (for recall, and it now shows the gear number in drive and sport) but no engine controller update I am aware of.

Our cars are very similar -- mileage, updates. Had the mechatronic replaced under warranty years ago and with that update I too got the gear indicator on the MFD. I've had the car to the dealer for various issues, but don't believe the 23o6 has been done to my car. Do you know which cars it applies to? At first I thought it was only those with SCR, but some with LNT-only models said they'd gotten it too.

(does the engine controller identification info on VCDS indicate the flash updates?)

I'd love to know the answer to this.

Anyway, finally made the time to collect data on this issue. Note that I've had a continuous P0401 error code/CEL for probably 6 months/10K miles -- cracked DPF a near certainty. Very sooty tailpipe:

Values/readings taken on a cold engine. My P0401 (when it wasn't a constant failure condition) would always trigger right at start-up or after a few minutes of driving. Idle lines are values when first reading the group, ON is after pressing the ON/OFF/Next button once, OFF is after a second press. Last DPF regen was 130km ago/132 minutes of runtime. VCDS version 15.7.1.

Group 67 1-4 values (function test adaptation):
idle: 828 rpm, 100%, 99.4%, 12.6%
ON: 1403 rpm, ON, 520 mg/str, 39.5%
OFF: 1403 rpm, OFF, 555 mg/str, 99.4%

Group 68 1-4:
idle: 828 rpm, 100%, 99.4%, 7.1%
ON: 1403 rpm, Lid close, 92 mbar, 19.7%
OFF: 1403 rpm, Lid open, 23 mbar, 99.4%

Group 78 1-4:
idle: 8 mbar, 25.5, 0 mbar, 42 C
ON: 164 mbar, 76.5, 0 mbar, 54 C
OFF: 162 mbar, 76.5, 0 mbar, 60 C

Group 78 1-4 at a slightly hotter temp (more minutes of idle in garage):
idle: 8 mbar, 25.5, 0 mbar, 72 C
ON: 156 mbar, 76.5, 0 mbar, 84 C
OFF 156 mbar, 81.6, 0 mbar, 90 C
then back to idle:
idle: 8 mbar, 20.4, 0 mbar, 84 C

Group 3 1-4 (at idle):
805 rpm, 38.0% (EGR spec), 37.1% (EGR actual), -11.8% (EGR duty cycle)

If the numbers/values look like I dorked something up or didn't take them properly, let me know and I can recheck.

meerschm · Oct 4, 2015

Andy,

Thanks for the post. I was more than half way to your neck of the woods. went to Asheville NC to check out a rooftop tent. managed to get in and out of the state with just a little drizzle and some mud on the tires.

your basic settings 78 sure looks to be over the 100 mbar difference which validates high values associated with the P0401. supposed to be over 200C, according to the note.

your 67 Basic settings is also much lower than the threshold Bob provided. (also validating the tie with P0401)

before the "switch" fiasco came out, I was considering getting the Emisions update to the ECU. A couple folks had suggested (and it seemed to make sense) that the update could have changed parameters to increase life of DPF. checked and called the dealer and verified there was not a recall for my car. there may have been a voluntary update i could have got, but never got motivated enough to get back with the dealer. Now I think I will wait a while and see what is up.

I logged this in the OBD II area of VCDS. module 9 vehicle info. wonder if the id includes patch codes. (as a standard OBD function, it would be accessible at inspections stations, if they become motivated to look for it)

Mode 9 : Calibration Identification
Type 02 - VIN : 3VWPL71K89M272852 (Address E8)
Type 04 - Calibration ID : 03L997016P 8681 (Address E8)
Type 06 - Calibration Verification Number : 12FFD699 (Address E8)
Type 0A - Controller Name : ECM-Engine Control (Address E8)
Type 0B - In-use performance tracking :
OBD Monitoring Conditions Encountered count : 3087
Ignition cycle count : 6663
Conditions completion count / Specificied conditions encountered count
NMHC Catalyst : 447 / 186
NOx/SCR Catalyst : 0 / 0
NOx Adsorber : 1424 / 3087
PM Filter : 0 / 0
Exhaust Gas Sensor : 0 / 0
EGR and/or VVT : 2627 / 3067
Boost Pressure : 0 / 0 Fuel : 0 / 0

What, if anything do you plan to do with the DPF and EGR filter in your car?

CNGVW · Oct 5, 2015

Some thing we do not know here is when the engine dos a EGR filter test that in-turn will set a P0401??
How I think they set up for this test is like this.
One of the DPF pressure sensor reads behind the DPF next to the EGR filter port.
One of the other pressure sensor reads the low pressure EGR camber where the EGR filter bolts too.
At some point it looks a the pressure differentiates to see if the EGR filter is clogging.
So if the P0401 comes back game over Cracked DPF.
Some thing no one has addressed is with the VW software EPA bypass .
Did they rune the EGR flow to high and the DPF temp past there limits making them crack???

meerschm · Oct 5, 2015

Bob,

I agree with you that it is not stated anywhere what the exact test conditions are that set the P0401 error. we would think the value of concern is the pressure drop over the filter, but since this varies all over the place, it has to be judged under a specific set of conditions. (air mass flow, rpm, boost?...)
do you know where the two inputs to the EGR pressure sensor go?
looks like one is plumbed to the low pressure EGR cooler. where does the other end go? is it plumbed in with the post-DPF feed to the DPF pressure sensor?

It is tempting to think the DPF cracks come from some specific conditions, and high temps or high temp differences (changing quickly) could be involved.
the highest temps I have seen exhaust pre-turbo and DPF wise are during the FF20 DeSOX process. When this takes a while it can get hot. I have seen 800c or almost 1500f pre-turbo. (for a bit). reading the self study program, this process involves jiggering both input flap and exhaust flap, to get the NOX storage cat hot enough, with the right dance of lambda excess fuel/air mix. not sure what the two EGRs are doing at this time, but I would guess they were controlled at this time as well.

Lightflyer1 · Oct 5, 2015

What is up with this tiny font syndrome that seems to be happening? I keep seeing posts I can't even read anymore.

meerschm · Oct 5, 2015

Lightflyer1 said:
What is up with this tiny font syndrome that seems to be happening? I keep seeing posts I can't even read anymore.

which post # can you not read?

Lightflyer1 · Oct 5, 2015

Yours right above mine. #88. Bob is normal then everything else tiny.

Managing a sooty tailpipe

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