Mk4 5th gear swap

grassy321

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Location
saskatchewan
TDI
2000-2001-2012
I have a question about the the benefits of swapping my 5th gear to a taller one (.658)on my 2001 jetta tdi. I'm on a mission to try and get best mpg possible without spending a fortune. I travel 1500km/950 miles a week all highway flat land and hoping to have the extra mpg to eventually pay for the upgrades. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I currently have everything stock with a van Akan module plugged in under the hood and slightly advanced timing. With that I average 1000km or 600miles per tank at 120km or 75mph.
 
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Black_Smoke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Location
in the garage (Devon, Alberta)
TDI
2000, 2003 and 2014 TDI Jettas and a fairly speedy '05 Duramax
I looked into this a while back. I came to the conclusion that the gains aren't really that significant. You won't save any money, unless you can find a really cheap gear set, you do the work yourself and you will be putting a lot of km's on. Sorry I don't have any actual numbers for you. Maybe someone else can chime in.
 

Wankel7

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
In my research it seems like one benefit of changing the 5th gear is it makes the cabin quieter at cruise. Not a dollar amount consideration but if you are driving 4k a month it could be worth it.
 

Jesse_Boyer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
I'm all out...
In my research it seems like one benefit of changing the 5th gear is it makes the cabin quieter at cruise. Not a dollar amount consideration but if you are driving 4k a month it could be worth it.
Having owned a couple TDI's with this gear, I'll confirm this was my experience. MPG gains, if any, are small. You're buying this gear because the car is much nicer to drive at 70mph, let alone 85mph.
 

JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
I was considering doing the same thing for the same reason as the OP. I'm glad my question has been answered and I did t even have to ask!
 

Jesse_Boyer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
I'm all out...
Unlike gassers, TDIs provide better FE at higher RPMs. 2000-2500RPMs is ideal.
Don't get me wrong, at 70mph, the 0.658 gear is right at 2000rpm. It's quiet as a mouse and in conjunction with ideal conditions, 71mph cruise, it netted me my best MPG's (54.1mpg on a recently sold, otherwise stock '00 Jetta.)

If you drive at or above 70 frequently, you will love this gear.
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
Your modifications will almost never pay for themselves - at best you'll break even. Best thing to do is upgrade when it's time for replacement. At your next oil change, use a 0w30 engine oil instead of 5w40 and it'll help a little bit. At your next transmission oil change, use Redliine D4 ATF or VW G070 oil instead of the VW G050 that's likely in your car and you'll also likely pick up a little bit. Next time you need tires, pony up for something with low rolling resistance like the Michelin Energy's and run them at 50 PSI. You can also go with a 205/70/15 to gain another ~3% RPM reduction instead of the 195/65/15's. Tread width is the same and the rolling resistance will be a tad lower due to the larger diameter. Incremental costs are relatively low - Maybe $100 for all of these combined

Block off all frontal openings on the car for aerodynamic benefit - don't worry, your car won't overheat. Make sure your thermostat and coolant temp sensor are operating correctly and install the hottest thermostat you can get - there's a thread here about how to do that. I like 95-100c coolant temps as a nice bump up over the 87-90 that the factory runs. About $50 with thermostat, temp sensor, replacement coolant, tape for blocking things off, etc.

Get a scangauge so you can see the actual coolant temperatures - the dash gauge does not do much for you and with the SG you can get instant feedback on MPG's. It won't save you any money directly (actually cost you ~$150 which buys a lot of fuel), but the feedback will help you get better MPG's.

I'd sell the VanAaken box and get a "Stage 2" tune from your favorite vendor (Malone, Rocketchip, TDTuning, Kerma, etc). You'll get the advantage of advanced timing (your static timing being advanced is not doing anything for you), and more boost when necessary. Make sure your MAF is in good shape and reading properly - don't get a MAF delete tune. Probably ~$200 net after you sell the VanAaken box, Maybe cheaper if you can find a tuned ECU that someone is selling.

A taller 5th gear will definitely be a step in the right direction - not sure where the other poster is getting the idea that diesels do better at higher RPMs?. I'd go for the tallest one you can get (0.622 maybe?) since you're all highway at 75 MPH. You'll have a bit bigger gap between 4th and 5th, but that's a minor deal compared to another 100 rpm drop while cruising every mile. I think these are ~$350

Aerodynamic modifications are also typically low cost and high benefit - slowing down is the easiest aero modification to make. Get out your stopwatch and time yourself from door to door and see how much longer it takes you to at 70 MPH vs 75 MPH (it's not the 7% difference in speed unless your doors are at the entrance/exit ramps). At best it's likely 3-4% time savings at a ~5 MPG penalty. On a 4 hour drive that's about 7-9 minutes time saving. Is 7-9 minutes on 4 hours worth 5 MPG to you? Generally free.

Is your fuel tank "Vented" so it holds ~17 gallons instead of ~15 gallons? Not a direct savings of fuel, but you don't have to fill up as often and get more range on a tank. Free

Take everything out of your car that you don't need weight wise. If it's just you all you need is the drivers seat. Passenger seat and rear seat are over 100lb weight savings. Free.

Insure all the regular maintenance is up to date - air filter, intake cleaned, snow screen clean, etc

If you do all of the above you'll have spent $850 and you might gain 5-7 MPG (not counting the slowing down part). $850 is 225 gallons of diesel at $3.75/gallon. 5 MPG on 50 that you should be getting now is 10% so it will take you 2250 gallons of fuel to save 225 gallons or ~112k miles.

Spending money to gain MPG's on something that gets 50 MPG's to start with is not going to pay off financially. Check out the 60+ MPG thread or the 70+ MPG thread - many of these cars are stock or nearly stock.
 

Black_Smoke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Location
in the garage (Devon, Alberta)
TDI
2000, 2003 and 2014 TDI Jettas and a fairly speedy '05 Duramax

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
I stand corrected. Interesting, must be the point where the turbo is at full boost and pumping loss is at minimum.
 

eb2143

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Location
Rhode Island
TDI
None
Not quite accurate. Lower rpm's allow more time for complete combustion and reduce pumping losses. On an ALH, you ideally want to be at 1750 rpm.
See pg 3 of this doc for specific fuel consumption info. http://rheamp.bg/pdfs/VW-Dvigatel-TDI1.9.pdf
Brake specific fuel consumption data is overly simplistic for real-world driving -- the graph is for full load. We can say that the 1.9 is most efficient in producing power around 1,750 rpm. You cannot extrapolate gm/hp to mpg by saying that fuel economy is best if we try to stick to 1,750 rpm
.
In the real-world we request light load of our engines the vast majority of the time, and the best fuel economy is usually at the lowest rpm possible (of course, that brings us into the debate of what constitutes "lugging" an engine).

This article, albeit aimed at gassers, is a good: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=112611

This is the graph and explanation better demonstrates how lowest-possible-rpm is almost always best:

Each curve represents a constant horsepower developed by the engine. If you are driving on a given road with a constant grade, speed, and ambient conditions, regardless of which gear you are in, it requires roughly the same amount of power to overcome aerodynamic drag, rolling resistance and driveline losses. Therefore, regardless of what gear you're in, you're riding anywhere along the same blue curve; exactly where you sit on that blue curve being only dependent on the gear you're in and therefore the RPM at which the engine is turning over.
In the case of the TDI BSFC chart, if I take the example of operating on a certain speed such that the power is 20 HP, the lowest BSFC occurs when running at the gear that corresponds to about 1250 RPM. If I run at either a higher- or lower RPM from this point, my BSFC will increase. This is about the only point in the entire engine map where it would be disadvantageous to operate at an even higher gear if one were available (lower RPM) because of the worsening BSFC. Almost everywhere else, the lowest BSFC is achieved at the lowest possible RPM at a given power.
Oh and as for 5th gear upgrade, I don't see that paying for itself. I would only consider one if I had high speed, long highway commute. Having a taller 5th would annoy me with my considerable 55 mph rural, hilly 2-lane driving. OP sounds like a good candidate but don't try to justify via payback...it's an expensive convenience.
 
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