Cold Air Intakes/Inter Cooler, and mods

Maskraven01 · May 27, 2017

I am looking for some advice on what to do for my 2015 VW Jetta SEL TDI. I have heard that intakes and intercoolers don't do a whole lot but curious. What mods can be done without affecting the warranty. This car I bought brand new about a month ago and only has about 700 miles on it. I recently put a new performance exhaust on the vehicle but am looking for some more. I am new to the TDI's but have own Volkswagens for a while now. Thanks for your time and help

adjat84th · May 27, 2017

An intake will only gain you some cool noises.
The intercooler on these EA288 motors are air/water units. It uses it's own coolant circuit with separate radiator to keep charge air temps in check, and it does a great job. Best you could do is get a tune that you can put on and take off easily for warranty work. So not a whole lot to keep things in check for warranty unfortunately.

15jetta_leftover · May 27, 2017

What exhaust did you put on it?

Ol'Rattler · May 29, 2017

Your new exhaust, some sort of after market intercooler, and a CAI are a waste of money. If you want actual performance gains, get a performance tune from a reputable tuner.

Mostly, CAI's are sold to the mouth breathing truck crowd using predatory advertising in the truck magazines. The factory TDI intake and exhaust are good for about double the stock HP.

At some point, the limiting factors for performance gain will be your turbo and injectors.

Maskraven01 · May 30, 2017

So the best thing is to do a tune that can be easily taken off for warranty work. What turbo upgrade and injectors do you recommend

travis45 · May 30, 2017

An easy turbo upgrade would be a CR190. I'm not positive, but I believe that you can keep your stock exhaust with that turbo. With a flashzilla, you can flash back to stock. Injectors aren't really an issue with the common rail cars, it's the fuel pump. But you'll need to be pushing a stage 3 tune before it's really an issue.

Check out www.fixmyvw.com

Andrew will fix you up.

travis45 · May 30, 2017

http://www.fixmyvw.com/garrett-cr190-gtd-turbo-for-cr-passat-tdi-and-2015-tdis/

adjat84th · May 31, 2017

Injectors and fuel pump are not a known limiting factor with that turbo. And yes, it will fit plug and play even with the stock exhaust, you'll just need the turbo intake pipe (airbox to turbo) and charge air outlet damper (turbo to charge pipe). I would reach out to some tuners or Andrew at fixmyvw to see if they have any cars running that turbo with the stock exhaust to see how they're holding up. Your warranty would go out the window with that turbo, even though it's a factory part used on the GTD. I'd doubt you could find a dealer that would work with you there. Certainly a nice upgrade though capable of 200hp.

Ol'Rattler · Jun 1, 2017

Maskraven01 said:
So the best thing is to do a tune that can be easily taken off for warranty work. What turbo upgrade and injectors do you recommend

IDK, but others do. Weather you need to upgrade the turbo and injectors depends on how an aggressive tune you get.

You can get some fair performance gains with the stock turbo and injectors and just a tune. Your tuner can advise you.

If you go over say a stage one or stage 2 tune, your clutch, if you have a manual will slip. IDK how much of a performance gain you can do on a DSG (automatic) before it has issues.

eddieleephd · Jun 1, 2017

A dealer can deny any warranty work if there's any modification to the car.
A tune can be replaced with the stock tune if you have the tuner.
As said before, the biggest power upgrade is a tune with accompanying components.
The desire to maintain warranty creates a dynamic that doesn't lend to a great increase.
If you get a tune you need a VAG-COM to be able to adapt and log. A tuner cannot get the tune right without logs.

Owain@malonetuning · Jun 1, 2017

Do not change the stock intake out for anything. The MAF is expecting exact values calculated from the factory and that information is used for multiple parts of the motor. You may run into DPF problems with an aftermarket intake, this was a common problem and APR pulled their EA189 intake off the market because of it.

VW, with their millions in R&D, wind tunnels etc, knows how to build a better intake than what you'll find from Joe blow on ebay. Being a turbocharged motor, most of your restriction will be in the exhaust.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jun 1, 2017

To pick up on what Owain is posting, this is a complex and carefully designed and assembled vehicle. The days of adding performance gear and expecting it to work well without significant additional work are behind us.

My .02 is to get a good tune and stop there. I've got both mildly and less than mildly modified TDIs, but with newer cars that's as far as I would go. Besides, your turbo, intake, exhaust, etc. are all brand new. Get some us of of them first.

If the tune isn't adequate and you want more power, get a GLI. Cheaper, more reliable alternative than a modified vehicle that performance improvment folks are just getting acquainted with.

eddieleephd · Jun 1, 2017

And I will chime in one more time.
Owain, if don't know is with Malone tuning and DBW is well versed, I believe he works at idparts.
I generally abide by anything they say, especially about the newer models!

IndigoBlueWagon · Jun 1, 2017

IDParts has no affiliation with Malone or DBW.

travis45 · Jun 1, 2017

Yes yes, very thoughtful and mature advice. Buy I say if you can get away with deleting the DPF/EGR ... Tune, turbo, exhaust= FUN!

Ol'Rattler · Jun 2, 2017

eddieleephd said:
A dealer can deny any warranty work if there's any modification to the car.
A tune can be replaced with the stock tune if you have the tuner.
As said before, the biggest power upgrade is a tune with accompanying components.
The desire to maintain warranty creates a dynamic that doesn't lend to a great increase.
If you get a tune you need a VAG-COM to be able to adapt and log. A tuner cannot get the tune right without logs.

Not quit correct. If the warranty issue was not caused by the modification, then they can not deny warranty coverage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

20IndigoBlue02 · Jun 5, 2017

IndigoBlueWagon said:
To pick up on what Owain is posting, this is a complex and carefully designed and assembled vehicle. The days of adding performance gear and expecting it to work well without significant additional work are behind us.

My .02 is to get a good tune and stop there. I've got both mildly and less than mildly modified TDIs, but with newer cars that's as far as I would go. Besides, your turbo, intake, exhaust, etc. are all brand new. Get some us of of them first.

If the tune isn't adequate and you want more power, get a GLI. Cheaper, more reliable alternative than a modified vehicle that performance improvment folks are just getting acquainted with.

VW has a weird reason of restricting the path of airflow to the airbox. You can make DIY improvements to the path.

IF you need more filtration for peace of mind, there's the cold weather filter.

Owain@malonetuning · Jun 5, 2017

The days of making power with a dremel and flat head are over. Mark has cracked two DPFs in a month from a mild intake leak, APR pulled their CAI off the market because of DPF failures. It'd be best to leave the stock filter alone. This is a boosted motor so most of your restrictions are in the exhaust.

20IndigoBlue02 · Jun 5, 2017

Owain@malonetuning said:
The days of making power with a dremel and flat head are over. Mark has cracked two DPFs in a month from a mild intake leak, APR pulled their CAI off the market because of DPF failures. It'd be best to leave the stock filter alone. This is a boosted motor so most of your restrictions are in the exhaust.

There are simple things you can do, such as removing the debris plate from the airbox, it's a simple reach and remove.

The grille area, VW tends to have the opening in the passenger side, so it has a long path to get to the intake velocity stack. You can find a spot in the grille duct to open up, to get more direct air to the velocity stack...

... all without touching the stock paper filter.

Owain@malonetuning · Jun 5, 2017

It still has to be forced through a tiny turbine though. I'll give this a whirl sometime and post numbers. For comparison's sake an abarth makes similar power to a tuned EA288 and both run around 22 PSI, although a smaller displacement it runs higher RPMs so turbine size isn't too far off. Here's what the intake system looks like

http://image.automotive.com/f/fiat-...739256/2012-fiat-500-abarth-engine-bayjpg.jpg

Swapping to this intake
http://eurocompulsion.net/EUROCOMPINTAKE.jpg

Resulted in a 3-5lb-ft loss in lower RPM consistently and no gains up top. Seriously harmed throttle response as well.

Same day, same room temperatures, same AITs, no heatsoak in testing due to cone filter location (although street testing it was horrible). The stock intake systems are typically designed quite well around stock cars. Post turbo on the inlet side and exhaust is where most of the gains in flow can be found.

flee · Jun 5, 2017

20IndigoBlue02 said:
There are simple things you can do, such as removing the debris plate from the airbox, it's a simple reach and remove.
The grille area, VW tends to have the opening in the passenger side, so it has a long path to get to the intake velocity stack. You can find a spot in the grille duct to open up, to get more direct air to the velocity stack...
... all without touching the stock paper filter.

... and all with no real power increase.

20IndigoBlue02 · Jun 6, 2017

flee said:
... and all with no real power increase.

You can waste a lot more money on an intake to do the same.

For my current car, APR has intake-specific tunes which slightly increase power over tunes with the stock filter

flee · Jun 6, 2017

20IndigoBlue02 said:
You can waste a lot more money on an intake to do the same.
For my current car, APR has intake-specific tunes which slightly increase power over tunes with the stock filter

See if they will provide documentation of their tune's improvement with and w/o intake mods.
It would be interesting to see the rpm's where the gain improves power.

20IndigoBlue02 · Jun 6, 2017

flee said:
See if they will provide documentation of their tune's improvement with and w/o intake mods.
It would be interesting to see the rpm's where the gain improves power.

They posted their dyno results on their website.

Enabled · Jun 6, 2017

Seriously though, it's easier than ever to see if the aftermarket tube and cone filter cold air intake helps..

Run 10 WOT runs on VCDS measuring and graphing load (mg/str) or MAF values, then run another 10 with CAI installed.
Make sure they are all done at the same engine and outdoor temperatures, and humidity if possible.

Graph the data, and watch for trends.

flee · Jun 6, 2017

20IndigoBlue02 said:
They posted their dyno results on their website.

There is essentially no useful information on their website.
"+30 HP, +54 LbFt" : pure snake oil like K&N and the rest have been peddling for years.
Buy that crap if it will make you feel better, though.

20IndigoBlue02 · Jun 6, 2017

flee said:
There is essentially no useful information on their website.
"+30 HP, +54 LbFt" : pure snake oil like K&N and the rest have been peddling for years.
Buy that crap if it will make you feel better, though.

I see you missed out their plots

turbobrick240 · Jun 6, 2017

I trust those plots about 0%. Way too easy to manipulate dyno results. APR is notorious for less than accurate dyno plots- that they advertise supposed crank power figures extrapolated from a chassis dyno shows where they are coming from.

20IndigoBlue02 · Jun 6, 2017

turbobrick240 said:
I trust those plots about 0%. Way too easy to manipulate dyno results. APR is notorious for less than accurate dyno plots- that they advertise supposed crank power figures extrapolated from a chassis dyno shows where they are coming from.

Crank HP are never accurate, hence why I posted their wheel numbers. Crank numbers are just fudged estimates. wheel numbers are more accurate, and the brand of dyno varies, short of removing the engine and using a water dyno.

turbobrick240 · Jun 6, 2017

Seen too many vw cold air intakes advertised with bogus dyno claims. That's how they manage to sell them.

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