ALH ECU swap - MSA15 to EDC15

DJGonzo · Jan 12, 2012

Here is the timing on the stock ECU:

Why would I need to rewire anything though? I get absolutely no fault codes and I have the 80 pin MSA15 not the 68 pin.

DJGonzo · Jan 12, 2012

I can't even look at the timing with the new ECU. The RPM jumps up and down and group 0 goes away.

I WAS able to get this though:

DJGonzo · Jan 12, 2012

Yeah the timing is off:

This is the old ECU

m1ketdi · Jan 12, 2012

Something is definitely wrong there...... Compare a few more of the blocks between old and new ecu.

DJGonzo · Jan 12, 2012

Yeah I'm at a loss. It has to do something with the timing though.
Actual timing on new ECU is always pegged at 27.9 BTDC

What wire does the ECU get the actual timing info?
Is it pin 114?

Edit: New code

17656 - Start of Injection Timing Regulation: Control Deviation
P1248 - 35-00 - -

m1ketdi · Jan 12, 2012

Actual timing comes from the third injector. To me it seems like you have wired up your pump wrong somehow.

DJGonzo · Jan 12, 2012

So which part of the wiring do you think its wrong? I have triple checked everything and everything looks OK.
I feel that it has to be something really small. Something dumb.

DJGonzo · Jan 13, 2012

Bump. Any ideas?

I will take a look at the needle lift sensor wiring today.

Its just weird Im not getting any codes.

DPM · Jan 13, 2012

timing/cold-start valve wiring.

DJGonzo · Jan 13, 2012

But it starts up when cold really fast. In fact, it starts with just just one whole turn. Maybe less. When its really cold, it will turn on really fast but then stall out. If you re-start it a few times, it will run, but erratically.

I got it to warm up with my old ECU and then swapped the new one. When I did that, it didn't smoke as bad but it was still very erratic.

I will take a look at the cold start valve.

m1ketdi · Jan 13, 2012

It starts so well due to the over advanced timing...

DJGonzo · Jan 13, 2012

m1ketdi said:
It starts so well due to the over advanced timing...

I kinda figured this out on my own

Can I just unplug the cold start valve? I already glued up my harness adapter and I just want to see if that's the issue.

DPM · Jan 13, 2012

You could certainly unplug the solenoid. I'm gonna guess you've got it straight to one of the rails whereas it's meant to be PWM'd by the ECU.

DJGonzo · Jan 13, 2012

I unplugged the N108 and it revs much better but it sounds like it detonates on and off like the injection advance goes back and forth.

DJGonzo · Jan 13, 2012

Is this normal? This is the N108 clicking while ignition is on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARdOjs69zKQ

DJGonzo · Jan 13, 2012

This is how it runs with the new ECU with the N108 plugged in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_j_OiIRKDE

Keebler145 · Jan 13, 2012

it clicking on and off is making me think you have a short or a blown fuse DJ, I would start checking stuff for loose connections.

Edit:

I would actually start with the ecu wiring that controls that solenoid (I'm sorry I'm not a guru on this just speaking from experience)

keaton · Jan 13, 2012

so what is the point of this swap to have a ECU that you can easily map?

turbocharged798 said:
That makes no sense. It does not matter how "earths"(or grounds we call it in the US) go together as they all go to the same place anyway.

WRONG! EMI will effect the signal quality and in a car there are lots of thing that will create noise. Almost every production circuit board has 2 ground planes, Analog Ground and Digital Ground. The 2 planes are tied together in 1 spot but are kept separation for noise isolation.

ever been in a car that has a wine in the radio and the wine changes according to RPM..... no imagine that on a sensor that is reading data.

DJGonzo · Jan 13, 2012

Keebler145 said:
it clicking on and off is making me think you have a short or a blown fuse DJ, I would start checking stuff for loose connections.

Edit:

I would actually start with the ecu wiring that controls that solenoid (I'm sorry I'm not a guru on this just speaking from experience)

The adapter harness is absolutely positively 100% correct. I triple checked everything before hot gluing my adapter harness. I have checked with Bentley, and multiple Excel spreadsheets with EDC15/MSA15 wiring info.

There is no way I have a blown fuse. When I put the opld ECU back, it fires right up and runs perfectly.

keaton said:
so what is the point of this swap to have a ECU that you can easily map?

Yes. That's the idea.
I refuse to solder in a header and program a flash chip every time I want to tweak something with this car. I flash other cars thru the OBD port and I'm not settling for less. This was supposed to be a straight swap pretty much and this issue is aggravating me

DJGonzo · Jan 14, 2012

Bump. I think my ECU might be fried. Gonna try the ECU off my other TDI which is taken apart and see if that works.

javizzz · Dec 11, 2012

did you solve the problem?????????

DJGonzo · Dec 11, 2012

Yeah I bought an entire harness for around 120 bucks and installed the whole thing under 3 hours.

gmenounos · Jan 29, 2013

DJGonzo said:
Yeah I bought an entire harness for around 120 bucks and installed the whole thing under 3 hours.

I'm planning to do the same (install a 2000 harness/ECU into my 99.5). Did you have to replace any sensors/connectors or did everything plug right in? I'm guessing at least the CTS needed upgrading since I think they changed to the D-shaped connector in 2000.

Thanks, Greg

Combine17 · Jan 29, 2013

gmenounos said:
I'm planning to do the same (install a 2000 harness/ECU into my 99.5). Did you have to replace any sensors/connectors or did everything plug right in? I'm guessing at least the CTS needed upgrading since I think they changed to the D-shaped connector in 2000.

Thanks, Greg

i read through this thread and not exactly sure whats being done here?

swapping 99.5 ECU and engine harness TO immo2 ECU and engine harness??

if so, this is exactly what im planning to do. any more details?

i know the n75 is different
the CTS different as well
cant think anything else off the top of my head

SuperAdellic · Feb 3, 2013

DJGonzo has a 99.5 Jetta, which has a 80 pin ecu that is not flashable through the OBD port. He switched to a 2000 or later ecu, which is 121 pin and is flashable through the OBD port. I have also read that the 121 pin ecu is faster due to running EDC15 vs the MSA15 of the earlier ecus, but I have no experience with how much of a difference it makes. Your 01 Jetta should already have a IMMO2 and an EDC15 ecu. Are you talking about upgrading a different TDI?

DJGonzo · Feb 3, 2013

gmenounos said:
I'm planning to do the same (install a 2000 harness/ECU into my 99.5). Did you have to replace any sensors/connectors or did everything plug right in? I'm guessing at least the CTS needed upgrading since I think they changed to the D-shaped connector in 2000.

Thanks, Greg

Yes you will need a new green-top CTS. I suggest you buy new. $15 bucks at most.

What I did was swap all the plugs over. The new harness had some round plugs. I just spliced in the old square plugs and voila!

The new harness had the glow plug harness clipped though

All I did was delete the DTC for the glowplugs and ABS module and I was able to pass inspection

tigre93 · Aug 7, 2013

hi friends, i make the swap, car start but only stays on 1200rpm.

i need to make this conections:

51 gas pedal (pin 6) green/red add
53 intake temp (pin 1) brown/blue add
49 air mass flow (pin 3) purple/green add
33 (T10e/8) green add
80 (T10/7) purple/yellow add
47 hazard switch (8/AB) green/purple add
88 +12v X (S10/5) black/green add

where i get this wires?

regards

Davegsm82 · May 26, 2017

DJGonzo, sorry to drag this thread from the dead, I was wondering if you knew what the actual reason was for your poor idling before you changed your harness?

I put an MSA15 into my VW T3 a couple of years ago and have decided to make up a loom for the EDC15, plugged it in and started up, it runs exactly the same way as yours does in the video.

Wiring loom came from a skoda octavia (same as MK4 Golf) and everything is wired properly.

Also could you describe the procedure for deleting the Powertrain message DTCs?

Thanks, Dave.

Davegsm82 · May 29, 2017

Figured it out, the signal wires from the crank sensor were swapped so the pulse going to the ECU was the wrong phase.

ALH ECU swap - MSA15 to EDC15

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