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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old February 12th, 2018, 23:21   #1
Festa
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Default Rod stretch and Squish area

The squish area that I should have is .61-.63mm but with a decked block and ceramic coated pistons it appears I will only have a squish area of .34mm, this possibly isn't enough. Now I understand the possibility of rod stretch at 5500rpm and expansion in the engine, but would 4340 h beam rods stretch as much as an oe rod ?
I may have to get a head gasket made up to allow for extra clearance but thought I would ask on here first as the worst that could happen is piston to head contact.
Think I should have removed material off the piston top...
Thanks in advance
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Old February 13th, 2018, 04:44   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Festa View Post
The squish area that I should have is .61-.63mm but with a decked block and ceramic coated pistons it appears I will only have a squish area of .34mm, this possibly isn't enough. Now I understand the possibility of rod stretch at 5500rpm and expansion in the engine, but would 4340 h beam rods stretch as much as an oe rod ?
I may have to get a head gasket made up to allow for extra clearance but thought I would ask on here first as the worst that could happen is piston to head contact.
Think I should have removed material off the piston top...
Thanks in advance
Easiest solution,and perhaps cheapest would be to remove the coating,machine the pistons and then coat again
Almost no difference in stretch for the rods
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Old February 13th, 2018, 07:07   #3
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the title of this thread sounds like a cheep, bad, gay, porno lol
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:57   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3pd View Post
Easiest solution,and perhaps cheapest would be to remove the coating,machine the pistons and then coat again
Almost no difference in stretch for the rods
I would think that would be expensive, having a head gasket made would be cheaper, or make your own head gasket by using 2 different ones and making the thickness you need.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 09:33   #5
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Stretch is essentially the same.

Explanation for a related component:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...26#post5370026

Agree that a thicker head gasket, if available, is the easiest and cheapest to explore before trying other options.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 11:21   #6
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Originally Posted by turbovan+tdi View Post
I would think that would be expensive, having a head gasket made would be cheaper, or make your own head gasket by using 2 different ones and making the thickness you need.
Nah,making a custom headgasket is not cheap,if you even find someone who does it
Many companies claim they can make custom headgaskets,but in reality they only do it in large quantities
Believe me,i have been down that route a few times before

Edit,i assume the measured squish is with the thickest headgasket......
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Old February 13th, 2018, 11:30   #7
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I known in the past the OP Festa has bought two VW head gaskets and de-laminated them and then made a thicker one with the different layers.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 11:39   #8
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Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
the title of this thread sounds like a cheep, bad, gay, porno lol
Didn't think of that the gay bit wasn't on my mind...
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Old February 13th, 2018, 11:47   #9
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On a serious note, though, i was interested to know about custom head gaskets as well, from what i have seen, you have to make your own, metal supply and machine shop supply companies can order you any thickness in copper, stainless, ect.. get the thickness you need and have a machine shop make it or you make it with some fineness and lots of measuring or just trace a head gasket and cut it out. high performance engine builds v8 and what not do it, why cant we? What about putting in fire rings on the head or block?
I was told that the measurement of the coating is nominal and not even worth measuring before and after.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 11:54   #10
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Thanks for the input guys..Yes Martin is right I have made a gasket up with two gaskets in the past but I was trying to avoid this as it seems bad practice.
No I can't get a gasket made as it's not enough volume as I only want one.
I'm trying to keep it simple and if things go wrong (which they do for me) I want to go to an auto store and purchase off the self items. It's not always possible as that where I am now..I did think about topping the pistons but then I would have to do the valve reliefs and maybe the combustion bowl, again I may as well get some forge ones made to order as these will be lighter.
I bought the pistons and had them ceramic coated before the rotational stuff went for balancing just to spped things up a bit, thats where things have gone wrong. I've now stripped the head off the engine and rechecked the tolerances, I have a piston projection of 1.03mm and I have ordered another gasket so I can get a 0.2mm leaf out and then add it to the 1.43mm gasket.
I have done Two engine rebuilds last year of which both lasted a combined mileage of 1800 miles so this now better work as I could do a lot more with 20k gbp
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Old February 13th, 2018, 12:00   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
On a serious note, though, i was interested to know about custom head gaskets as well, from what i have seen, you have to make your own, metal supply and machine shop supply companies can order you any thickness in copper, stainless, ect.. get the thickness you need and have a machine shop make it or you make it with some fineness and lots of measuring or just trace a head gasket and cut it out. high performance engine builds v8 and what not do it, why cant we? What about putting in fire rings on the head or block?
I was told that the measurement of the coating is nominal and not even worth measuring before and after.
I think imo that a copper gasket will always leak and the insertion of 'o' rings is a must but a v8 petrol has less compression over a diesel.
I'm running 18-18.5:1 as it is and I don't want to strip the thing down every year to replace a copper/stainless gasket because it leaks.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 13:04   #12
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The standard assumption here of several people including myself is that you're already at the end of the road with the thickest OE gasket? Then ya, you need more creative solutions.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 16:47   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3pd View Post
Nah,making a custom headgasket is not cheap,if you even find someone who does it
Many companies claim they can make custom headgaskets,but in reality they only do it in large quantities
Believe me,i have been down that route a few times before

Edit,i assume the measured squish is with the thickest headgasket......
Take apart your new one and a used one, use one of the thinnest shims from the used one mixed in with the new gasket parts
they have a thick flat plate, then two bellevilled plates for sealing, then the thin flat shim plate for the various thickensses.

ETA: ah, I see you've already come to this conclusion

Last edited by [486]; February 13th, 2018 at 16:51.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 16:51   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongler98 View Post
On a serious note, though, i was interested to know about custom head gaskets as well, from what i have seen, you have to make your own, metal supply and machine shop supply companies can order you any thickness in copper, stainless, ect.. get the thickness you need and have a machine shop make it or you make it with some fineness and lots of measuring or just trace a head gasket and cut it out. high performance engine builds v8 and what not do it, why cant we? What about putting in fire rings on the head or block?
I was told that the measurement of the coating is nominal and not even worth measuring before and after.
copper sucks
know why old engine guys do it? because composition gaskets suck even more

mls is god-tier
you can run stainless fire rings with MLS with lower than normal projection, my friend does it with his DSM making 1500ish hp from a 2 liter
needless to say he doesn't care about unimportant details like small coolant leaks
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Old February 13th, 2018, 20:18   #15
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I had to play this game on my rebuild due to a variety of factors. I run a 3 hole head gasket and ~0.016" of squish at room temp.

For more details, click here and start reading at post 225

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=338260

So far so good with ~80k miles on the rebuild.
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