TDI in a Toyota pickup

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Here is the ACME kit on a 1Z engine.



Everything fit perfectly. I didn't even need to mod the motor. (The instructions call for drilling out a couple of the bolt holes.) :)

The flywheel is oriented at TDC. Note how the hole spacing is slightly uneven.
 
G

go-fish

Guest
I'm a big fan of the straight axle 'yota's and a bigger fan of TDI's. You are the man.
BTW, my wife went to Chico State, never heard of the place except from her. From what I hear, there isn't much emphasis on studies.
 

storx

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Jan 16, 2006
Location
Earth!!
TDI
2009 Jetta CR140, 2010 Corvette Z06
i like it... good job... i cant wait to see it done.
 

Spulen81

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Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Location
Warners, NY
Have you bolted up the R151F yet? I'm going to swap on of these in too since my W56 lost reverse I want to make sure I'm not in for any suprises. Did Acme confirm it would work?
 

e*clipse

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May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Spulen,

When I ordered the kit, I told ACME that it was an R-151F, and they said it would work.

One of the key things to watch out for is the spline between the transmission & transfer case. You cannot connect the W56's transfer case to an R-151F.

I've done test fits of the engine to adapter & adpter to tranny. Looks good so far. I have a heavy duty clutch, master cylinder & slave cylinder on order from Marlin Crawler. I won't have positive confirmation on clutch fit for a little bit.

My only surprise so far has been the transmission mount. The mounting holes one on my automatic looks much different than those of the R-151F, so I ordered a used mount from a Toyota specialty place in Rancho Cordova (near Sacramento). I thought all manual transmissions had the same bolt pattern. Apparently not.:mad: While the R-151F has a similar bolt pattern, it is wider than the one that was sent to me.

Do you have any experience - or links about this? I think I'll give the guys at Marlin a call. They are very knowledgable about this stuff.

Good luck with your Tranny - and good luck finding one!:)
 

Spulen81

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Mar 30, 2004
Location
Warners, NY
I got my clutch from Marlin also, great place to deal with. I found a whole R151F trans with the t-case, bellhousing and everything only a short drive away.:)
The guy that is selling it is a Toyota guru and has a couple of them I guess. I'm not sure about the auto vs. stick mount. I thought all the stick mounts were the same too. Hopefully my new trans will have one on there already. There is a great forum on Marlin's site or Pirate4x4 is a great resource.
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Congrats on the find Spulen!

Have you ever taken a tranny apart? Mine is oozing oil someplace around that steel section. I'll probably have to re-seal it. I'm leary that if I start pulling stuff apart that some spring or something won't go spoinging :eek: across the garage, never to be seen again.

Also: I am still searching for an ECU. :( I had to cancel an E-bay from Germany because of payment problems. Seems our banks (maybe it's just Chico) don't understand the European system. After that, I found one here in the states, but must have not described it well enough. :mad: I am now the proud owner of a Bosch EDC 15 ECU (VAG: 038 906 018 EB Bosch: 0 281 001 855)

Other than that, I did get the clutch pedal & clutch master cylinder installed. :)
 

e*clipse

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May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Nice link. Sure sounds like mine needs that treatment. :( It has every sign of a hard life this guy mentioned.

I guess it would be good to at least take it apart to that 1st stage & assess things. Much easier to do now, while it's out of the truck.
 

e*clipse

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Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Yea, G60ing has a picture of one cut & welded like that in this thread. I guess I have two problems with that: (I still appreciate the suggestion :) )
1) I'm a newbie welder, and aluminum's out of my abilites right now.
2) I would still have a restrictive intake manifold when I get done.

All the research I've done on forced induction (turbo) systems indicates that restrictions in flow are best avoided. The "mythbusters" thread confirmed this.

Since I've got to start from scratch on the entire intake & exhaust, it should be done with as few restrictions as possible.

I am going to take the advice of getting it registered first. For that, it seems a U-tube (ugly as that sounds) is the cheapest temporary solution. I might even graft on the 'Yota exhaust. It will look ugly, but stock; and that's all those guys care about. :rolleyes:

After that, I think a PD intake manifold, a 2 1/2" exhaust and a big intercooler looks like a good free-flowing option. Better torque, better power, better milage, faster spooling. Am I missing something? :D
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Hello everyone!

This is a question for Spulen, but I would like feedback from anyone who's done a conversion.

I got a line on a VW MK3 TDI wiring harness & fusebox. :)

Did you/would you go with a VW harness? Advantages?

If so, was the fusebox helpful, or did you go with the Yota?

If not, how much trouble was grafting in the Yota harness?

How about all those connectors? There are a bunch of gassers at the local junkyard - I can easily get gasser connectors. How compatible are they with TDI's? :confused:
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
MD
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
Having a Tacoma with 260k miles and lots of VWs I have thought about this and personally I would swap it all over to a VW fuse panel. My reasoning is that Toyota's fuse panel is very simple but so is their wiring. Once you put a VW tdi engine in there with the ECU and you ahve to add all the relays and everything else that makes up the engine swap.

I personally would just swap in the VW fuse block and then add in the electrics for the auxilary systems:
tail lights, headlights, blower motor and what not

This way if the swap is sold the owner would only have to follow one set of schematics.

My TDI corrado has two sets of schematics but the systems are completly seperate with two fuse boxes. the 2nd fuse box makes it really easy to add circuits.
 

Spulen81

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Joined
Mar 30, 2004
Location
Warners, NY
I was going to use the VW fuse box when I started mine also. Once I narrowed down the harness there were only a few wires going to the fuse box so I decided to just delete it for simplicity. The MK3 harness is very simple and it would save you a ton of time by just plugging it in especially if its in good shape.
There are some connectors, like the injection pump connector that you are going to have a hard time finding at a boneyard. Some are really easy to find. You can probably get them from the dealer. I had to buy a couple connectors to replacing missing ones on my harness.

I run the factory power supply relay 109 and the factory glowplug relay. These two relays are separate from the fuse box anyways. Other than tapping the factory Toyota harness for keyed power through the efi circuit, it was untouched. I wired mine so I could pull the swap and install in anything easily.
 
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G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
MD
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
Spulen81 said:
I was going to use the VW fuse box when I started mine also. Once I narrowed down the harness there were only a few wires going to the fuse box so I decided to just delete it for simplicity. The MK3 harness is very simple and it would save you a ton of time by just plugging it in especially if its in good shape.
There are some connectors, like the injection pump connector that you are going to have a hard time finding at a boneyard. Some are really easy to find. You can probably get them from the dealer. I had to buy a couple connectors to replacing missing ones on my harness.

I run the factory power supply relay 109 and the factory glowplug relay. These two relays are separate from the fuse box anyways. Other than tapping the factory Toyota harness for keyed power through the efi circuit, it was untouched. I wired mine so I could pull the swap and install in anything easily.
with that being said, I agree use the yota fusebox:)
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Thanks!

Thank you for your insight. :) Nothing like experience, even on strange jobs like these. :p

By the way, there's been a little progress. I've cleaned out the garage (moved a Bridgeport mill and Clausing lathe) and moved the truck into it.

I've also wired the garage to be able to power the machines or my welder.

I know it's not directly truck related, but it should make things easier in the future. :cool:
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Ok, some progress!

Here's a shot of the clutch master cylinder. The one in the shot is a nasty one I got from the junk yard along with a pedal cluster from a 2nd gen 4-runner. The pedal cluster bolts straight in, and you have to cut holes in the firewall for the master cylinder.



First fit check! I lifted the tranny into place underneith and positioned it with the tranny mount. (The place I got the first one from found the right one - It's different from the "W" series tranny mounts.) For the fit check, I don't have the clutch or flywheel installed to make connecting/disconnecting easier.





Decent firewall clearance, and lots of room in front.

Vertical clearance is tight, but I'll be able to fit the engine with no body lift. :cool: There is about 1" clearance from the hood to the oil fill, and about 1" clearance in the bottom tight spots. The only engine mod that looks necessary is to move the oil drain plug & oil cooler.

Cardboard mockup of driver's side mount. I'm using Prothane inserts from a 2nd gen Mitsubishi Eclipse.

 
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e*clipse

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May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Umm, why aren't photos working? I have IMG tags around those links...

d'oh! ^ fixed it :eek: ^
 
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RoundHouse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 23, 2001
Location
Ga USA
Looking good,
Keep it up.
Work faster please!

I have a 95 4wd 4-runner with a bad engine, and am itching to do this swap.
I was thinking about mounting the engine a little more forward to be able to use the Marlin Crawler Transfer case and not alter the driveshafts.

I think those prothane mounts are gonna rattle your teeth.
But keep compies of you final design so youcan share, or make & sell.
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Hi Roundhouse!

Faster? I don't think I could keep up w/ SDTurbo. I'm bypassing my usual "overanalyze & draw a solid model" & going straight to fab. No FEA here. :p This speeds things up, but my plans are in the form of pencilCAD on cardboard.:D

Here are some dim's that might be useful:
Clearance from front pulley to front body piece: 9 1/2"
length of a reduction box: 4 1/2" I think the Marlin setup basically uses 2 reduction boxes, so you should be able to do it.

(note that radiators, fans,etc will take some of that space - 5" for fan & radiator!)
You may need to find a way to mount the intercooler so it doesn't use that space.

Is yours an IFS V6? If so, my motor mounts might work. However, my setup has them sitting on the edges of the upper A-arm mounts. If you go with the Marlin setup, the passenger side mount will be too far forward. A little design change will be necessary. NBD.

By the way, here are two good 'Yota builds that have been helpful for me:
I see you've found Spulen's build. :)
Also, check this one out on the pirate board. Beautiful work.:)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386018

Also, check this one out. Yeah, its not a Yota, but he's doing awesome work!
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=161139
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
e*clipse said:
(snipped)intake manifold when I get done.

All the research I've done on forced induction (turbo) systems indicates that restrictions in flow are best avoided. The "mythbusters" thread confirmed this.
(snipped)-
Not really since IBW had a remap done at the same time, it's impossible to attribute changes to the induction system as it is more likely due to the remapped ECU programming.
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Ok, technically there was a variable introduced in the test.

However, to me it was just another test to prove what's already been proven many times before. My research has included reading numerous articles about this, "Turbochargers" by Hugh Macinnes (which has a section on diesels), and personally modding the turbo, induction system, and exhaust of a Mitsubishi Eclipse. I tend to overresearch things, and I have NEVER found any valid information stating that restrictive intakes or exhuasts are preferable.

Improving the exhaust flow after turbo can significantly reduce the backpressure the turbo is working against. This allows it to spool quicker & extract more energy out of the exhaust flow.

On the compressor side, that increase in energy gets tranlated to higher boost pressures, higher flow, and heat. One way to increase the power output of a turbo'd engine is to increase the boost. However, the only number that really matters is at the inlet valves. Any intake system has some restrictions, and the compressor needs to produce higher boost to compensate. Getting rid of intake restrictions effectively increases the boost without requiring the compressor to work harder. :) Stock intake systems are generally poorly designed, with many restrictions. Rapid changes and even reductions in cross section are common even in "performance" cars. It appears that packaging invariably takes priority over performance. Why waste your gains pushing air through restrictive piping? All that accomplishes is to require the compressor to work harder for the same performance, which produces more heat. That heat raises EGT's, and also forces the cooling system to work harder.

Stock intercoolers are generally undersized and will saturate after a short time. The resulting increase in charge air temperature decreases air density, and will reduce power. It's been known since the '70's that intercoolers improve efficiency & performance. Why run one that doesn't cool the air?

Mods to the exhaust & intake are relatively cheap if you do the work yourself. Every expert I've read lists these improvements as a FIRST step. In my case, I can build a restrictive system or a free flowing system - they will cost essentially the same. :cool:
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
steel is real!

Plasma cut, grind, machine, sand....and the figments of the imagination expressed in cardboard becomes steel :p

Passenger side mount:


Driver side mount:
 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
I couldn't fit check the motor mounts because the stock motor mounts got in the way.

I had to pull the engine (again) and remove the old mounts. They were cut off with an cutting wheel on an angle grinder:



Then lots of grinding and sanding later, look like this:

 

e*clipse

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Motorsteuerung aus Deutchland

Yeaaa! The cumpooter came today!!!

A brand spanking new one from Deutchland! :)

part number 028 906 021 GN
Bosch # 0 281 001 660
68 pin w/tube.

Now to send it on to Jeff for some immobilizer defeat and tuning majik. :cool:
 

e*clipse

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May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
The motor is now standing on its own.

Sequence:
>Mark position of new mounts and pull motor out.
>Grind off old motor mounts (see previous post)
>Because the motor mounts are very close to the suspension upper pivots, I had to remove them to weld the mounts in place. The Toyota has torsion rod front springs, so these needed to be detensioned first. One side worked fine, the other side siezed and the tensioning bolt needed to be cut off. :mad: May be a good time for new torsion bars...:rolleyes:

Here is a shot of the drivers side mount:


Passenger side mount:


Right now the mounts are just tacked in place. Even with just the tack welds, they support the motor. I'll have to remove them & the motor again to do the final welding. Clearance on bottom is ~3/4" > 1" from oil pan to front differential and driver side axle mount. Clearance on top is ~ 1/2" from hood insulation to oil fill cap. (I think I can use a shorter fill inlet)

Clearance issues:
Intercooler oil return line contacts starter. Ideas, anyone?
The industrial motors seem to have the exhaust pipe upside down, with the turbo on top. This would solve the starter-exhaust clearance issue. Can the exhuast manifold simply be turned upside down?
Can the turbo's compressor be rotated? It would help intercooler pipe routing.
Anyone know interchangeability of the thermostat housing? I would like to route in straight down or away from the engine. Not straight back like stock.
The oil drain is definitely an issue. It currently points right at the front differential. The best option will be move it to the back of the oilpan.
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
MD
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
The industrial motors seem to have the exhaust pipe upside down, with the turbo on top. This would solve the starter-exhaust clearance issue. Can the exhuast manifold simply be turned upside down? sure just check the clearnaces of the manifold in refrance to the intake manifold. Also make certain you have a support bracket for the turbo.


Can the turbo's compressor be rotated? It would help intercooler pipe routing. Yes it can be rotated. loosen the small bolts on the turbine and compressor sections and you can rotate them any which way. Remember the oil lines need to up and down on the centr section.

Anyone know interchangeability of the thermostat housing? I would like to route in straight down or away from the engine. Not straight back like stock. I know there is a thermostat housing that points the outlet toward the front of the vw or twoards the wheelwell on a toyota. I think its the 2L aba outlet (1993-1999)


The oil drain is definitely an issue. It currently points right at the front differential. The best option will be move it to the back of the oilpan.[/quote]
 

Spulen81

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Mar 30, 2004
Location
Warners, NY
-oil return line contacts starter. Ideas, anyone?
I had the same issue, if you use a newer oil drain it goes down straight instead of that wierd curve with the banjo fitting. Clears no problem, the drain line, fitting of the block and gaskets are like $60


The starter is really close, I never had an issue with it at all. Just a starter blanket but I'm in the process of making a new manifold and top mounting the turbo. There are also 3 different starters, atleast one of them will not fit.

The t-stat housings will interchange, I've never seen one that doesn't point towards the flywheel though. ABA flanges included unfortunately. You could get a old aluminum Rabbit flanges and cut/weld it.
 
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e*clipse

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Location
Chico, CA
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Toyota TDI swap
Thanks again, Spulen! :)

if you use a newer oil drain it goes down straight instead of that wierd curve with the banjo fitting. Clears no problem, the drain line, fitting of the block and gaskets are like $60
- Thanks (checked out your thread again)

There are also 3 different starters, atleast one of them will not fit.
I've found one of the non-fitting starters: The one that came on the V6. I also located one off a 22R, & the bolt holes match. Haven't checked to see whether the flywheel engages...

I'm in the process of making a new manifold and top mounting the turbo.
- Really? Any source for flanges, etc? Are you upgrading the turbo?
 
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