ULSD station locations

karlthev said:

Well, no, I really don't believe I'm not making a "mountain out of a molehill" although maybe I've given the wrong impression. ... Maybe when we have the change of seasons and it's light out when I'm on the road but until then, I'm somewhat limited to websites telling me which stations have or don't have ULSD for this car.

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When your car has a range of 500-700 miles, you don't need to the locations of stations every 20 miles along your main route. All you need to know are the locations of a handful of good stations.
http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/map_gas_prices.aspx
Just select diesel and zoom in until the prices show up on the map.

There are stations with diesel along all the major highways: Interstates 80, 84, 81. 78, 95, 476, etc. $2.49-2.59 in PA, some cheaper stations in NJ.

Thanks again--this time "TR" but what I'm failing to get across is that I have been using links and finding the info INCORRECT. Now, No doubt there are stations along the interstates I travel but I generally don't fuel up enroute, always before. A querk? No, safety--my father taught me to keep 'er filled BEFORE starting a trip. I'll be OK but I'll say again that without LOCAL stations carrying ULSD I am very hesitant in considering a $25,000 car, no matter how many afficianados lend support and no matter how many stations are supposed to carry the proper fuel. I really don't mean to offend the dyed-in-the wool supporters here (and it appears that I am) but, when so-called "data" is proven wrong time and time again---and I am proving it WRONG (no ULSD available despite what the links may say---at least at LOCAL stations) I'm apprehensive--no matter how far a tank of fuel will take me. When I need fuel, I don't want to feel interstate travel is a requirement.

Case one. One website (NOT the one "TR" provided me here) indicated that a Valero station three blocks from my home carries diesel. Being out of town, I contacted Valero corporate headquarters and they told me that 99% of their stations carry ULSD. I practically had written out my deposit check and was feeling pretty lucky with this information---until I got home Friday night and found the station three blocks from my home does NOT carry the correct fuel--money back into my pocket!! "Information" incorrect. Case two (forgive the case by case presentation here but, I know what I am talking about despite what advice has been stated here) a SUNOCO station identified on another website (again "TR", NOT the website you have given me here!) indicates diesel and, as we all know, 99.99999% of diesel stations carry the ULSD ---this one does not carry ULSD. "Information" incorrect. The local SHEETZ station (popular around my area) has diesel, again NOT ULSD! "Information" incorrect.

I am now on the website that TR gave me and I am finding that different stations are being identified as carrying ULSD. I won't have time to check them out (closest is around 10 miles away--way too far for a special, investigative trip) particularly since I am packing again today to be on the road for five days this coming week. I'm going to wager that this latest information will be accurate and find as well that I have been looking at the wrong sites for information and visitng the wrong stations to which I have been referred. I'll look back at these posts in a few months and see that they represented some initial learning needed on my part. A rocky start though.....

Being new here it may not seem to be my place to give advice and I wouldn't---except that there is a clear need to do so. It is not new advice--I've seen it given here before but, don't presume that what you have been told is corrrect. I have found that many times it is not.

Thanks to all for the accurate information I have been able to discover here---and there has been a wealth of it!



Karl

VeeDubTDI said:

Almost every station that sells diesel will be selling ULSD unless you're in the middle of bumble-eff-nowhere and buying off-road farm diesel.

ULSD is the new diesel.

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I live in bumble-eff-nowhere, and even WE have ULSD

Seriously, though. I buy my diesel mostly from Flying J. It's a truck stop here that usually is a bit cheaper than the BP or Marathon stations in town. I don't know the geography of your area, so here's a link to all the Flying J spots in PA:

http://www.flyingj.com/flyingjPortalWebProject/appmanager/flyingj/home;jsessionid=L2vFJ8DQNg5H1GtV6qTJxl3N01518rJLyY7V5LBSgdnvjKr5bBTG!-1814279305!NONE?_pageLabel=flyingjPortal_portal_page_60&_nfpb=true&_windowLabel=gasprices_1_1&gasprices_1_1_actionOverride=%252Fflyingj%252Fgas%252FgasPricePageFlow%252FgetGasPricesByState&gasprices_1_1wlw-select_key%3A%7BactionForm.stProvCode%7DOldValue=true&gasprices_1_1wlw-select_key%3A%7BactionForm.stProvCode%7D=PA

It details all the gas/diesel prices at Flying J's around your state. For the rest of you guys, you can go here and select your state:

http://www.flyingj.com/flyingjPortalWebProject/appmanager/flyingj/home?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=flyingjPortal_portal_page_60&_windowLabel=gasprices_1_1&gasprices_1_1_actionOverride=%2Fflyingj%2Fgas%2FgasPricePageFlow%2FgetGasPrices

Karl, tdiclub.com is THE BEST place to get information on ANYTHING to do with a TDI VW. I happened on it in February 2007 before I bought mine and read A LOT of stuff in researching my purchase. I bought a 2003 Golf and have been happy as a clam ever since. It's my first diesel, and I was apprehensive about some things, but fuel wasn't one of them as we have 2 truck stops and several diesel pumps in our small town of 8,000. Of course, being on the KY/TN border probably helps that, but all our pumps have the green "ULSD" sticker on them. If your area's pumps do not, then perhaps a letter to your state's Attorney General is in order. It is a FEDERAL LAW that ALL diesel must be ULSD (less than 15ppm sulfur).

I hope you find the info you are looking for in your search and take the plunge on the TDI. It's a lot cheaper to operate, even with the distance in price between gas and diesel (in my area anyway), and you will be pleasantly surprised at what it can do on long trips in the economy area. Maybe I'm jaded coming from a commute in a 1995 S-10, but I'll take the 42mpg at 78mph my auto Golf gets on the highway anyday.

I'll hafta move there!



Karl

I guess my point, and SoKYTDi's, and Souzafone's, is that finding fuel is simply not that big a deal. Maybe only 1/4 or 1/3 of all stations carry diesel. And maybe only half of those are stations you'd want to buy from. But there are still plenty of good ones.

You have to be pretty much of a dunderhead to run low on fuel somewhere that doesn't have any ULSD.

I got the point TR but now, not name-calling is it? "You have to be pretty much of a dunderhead to run low on fuel somewhere that doesn't have any ULSD."--TR I didn't think so---this is supposed to be an INFORMATIVE forum right?



Karl


PS I if I may provide some grammatical correction here, one would run low on fuel where---"...somewhere that doesn't have any ULSD...". I think you mean run low where there IS ULSD right?? That's MY point---maybe you missed it????

Karl, I completely understand and appreciate where you are coming from in checking the availability of the diesel product before you invest in a $25K TDI. That's really smart to see if the TDI will fit youur situation. I have found that this TDI forum is good at discussing issues from all points of view and I agree that it's a valuable source of information.

That said...I found an article published by EIA (energy information administration-gov)and I submit a quote:

New U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) standards for diesel fuel sulfur content were implemented in 2006. By June 1, 2006, 80 percent of the on-highway diesel fuel sold in the United States had to be Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel with a sulfur content of no more that 15 parts per million (ppm), replacing most Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD) fuel, which contains a maximum of 500 ppm sulfur. By December 1, 2010, all on-highway diesel fuel must be ULSD fuel. The diesel fuel standards for off-highway consumption began a phase-in period in 2007. Nearly all diesel fuel used in the United States will be ULSD by the end of 2014.

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you could read the full article at: http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/

This article is from June 2008. Toward the end of the article they briefly discuss distribution difficulties.

The logistics of delivery of ULSD to retail service stations can be a challenge. Most ULSD travels through pipelines on the way to bulk terminals for final transfer by tanker truck to retail stations. Other diesel fuels and petroleum products with a higher-sulfur content in the pipeline, storage, and local distribution systems might contaminate ULSD (jet fuel, for example, can have 3,000 ppm of sulfur). If contaminated, it may not be possible to correct a ULSD fuel batch by blending with additional low-sulfur product, and contaminated batches have to be returned to a refinery for reprocessing, a difficult and expensive problem.

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Maybe you are just located in a pocket of the country that still is working on improved distribution/delivery right now. The EPA says ULSD diesel is definately coming to everyone.

I really haven't been a TDI owner very long. But, from my small experience, I can tell you that finding ULSD in Illinois and Wisconsin doesn't seem to be a problem even when traveling through smaller towns far removed from the city.

I hope this information helps you.

PalosParked, it does. I read the information before I had considered purchase of this car and, as you have pointed out, I at least appear to be in a pocket of limited distribution at this time. While full compliance by the end of 2010 is somewhat comforting for a future purchase, clearly waiting until that time isn't an option when I am in the market for the car currently.

I have done a bit more investigating today along with the help of some of the replies I have gotten here and for that I am again appreciative. I had mentioned that a chain (Sheetz) does carry diesel but it is not labled ULSD so I contacted the corporate headquarters today and they have assured me it is. That will place at least two stations within my "reasonable" distance and that is most reassuring. I have also located a Gulf station and a BP station which also carry ULSD so, I've practically taken out my checkbook again. I probably will buy the car after all when I get back from my business trip this coming week.

Thanks to you and all those who have been helpful.


Karl

karlthev said:

I've practically taken out my checkbook again. I probably will buy the car after all when I get back from my business trip this coming week.

Thanks to you and all those who have been helpful.


Karl

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Karl, for a road warrior I really think you are going to be happy. For me there were multiple reasons, but one that has really helped out with my life is the number of times that I DON'T have to stop to fuel up. I was looking at taking the time out three times a week to filler' up, now once. As I stop off of the highway, that's at least 20 min. commute time that I'm saving, which may not seem like so much, but it adds up for me.

Assuming you have a GPS, you can find a list, albeit kind of old at Poi-Factory
http://www.poi-factory.com/node/11243. You'll have to sign up for an account to download it.
PalosParked-Looks like your best bet for non bio is to go to Indiana. There's only two places up this way (north side) that has it-Palatine Oil Company, and JAM trucking in Bensenville, which is filled by POC. JAM is card lock only, POC takes Visa and MC.
The tax break is for any blend of B11 or higher, so it's generally assumed they are all selling B11.

Thanks Thunderstruck! ....Love the license plate! ....Interesting website (POI) ....I will explore them further.

After reading an earlier post on this thread yesterday. I called my VW dealer and asked where they filled 'em up. He told me Thornton's. There are lots of Thorntons around here. But I thought Thornton's diesel was B-something or other. So, I sent an e-mail off to Thornton's asking them about type of diesel the sell locally and additives for winter. Probably won't get a response until tomorrow. I will let you know. [Update..It's B11]

I don't want to change the theme of this ULSD thread. However, I'm not really sweating the Biodiesel issue. I'm actually pro Biodiesel. I think that Rudolf Diesel ran his first motors with it. However, I want to stay within "warranty". And I am for the most part sticking to D#2 (only) especially while I am still breaking my new TDI in. I think that eventually VWOA will have to embrace and resove the B11-B20 for all of us (not just the fleet use TDI's). Then either make some mods or change their maintenence schedules.

In the meantime I encourage everyone in the Chicago area to fill 'er up at the BP on the corner of Ogden (Rte 34) and Main Streeet in Downers Grove. They are selling D#2. I just would like for them to sell more of it and have a higher turn on their tank!

[Update..D2 (no bio) ...It exists on the south side of Chicago...Found (at least) 2 local diesel distributors. They told me where they deliver their D#2 and D#2 & D#1, 70/30 winter mix to in my area)

You mean it's straight D2? A lot of pumps aren't labeled, even though they should be. Have you seen the bill of lading to confirm it's not bio? There is another thread detailing the fact even the 507 oil is not up to the contamination caused by Bio-it's not a matter of accepting BXX by VW, it's a matter of the oil being improved first.

ULSD is the only over the road diesel fuel available in America, except rural Alaska.

United States

As of September 2006, most on-highway diesel fuel sold at retail locations in the United States is ULSD[4].
Ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel was proposed by EPA as a new standard for the sulfur content in on-road diesel fuel sold in the United States since October 15, 2006, except for rural Alaska. California has required it since September 1, 2006, and rural Alaska will transition all diesel to ULSD in 2010. This new regulation applies to all diesel fuel, diesel fuel additives and distillate fuels blended with diesel for on-road use, such as kerosene, however, it does not yet apply to railroad locomotives, marine, or off road uses. By December 1, 2010, all highway diesel fuel will be ULSD. Non-road diesel fuel was required to move to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and further to ULSD in 2010. Railroad locomotive and marine diesel fuel also moved to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and will change to ULSD in 2012. There are exemptions for small refiners of nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel fuel that allow for 500 ppm diesel to remain in the system until 2014. After December 1, 2014 all highway, nonroad, locomotive and marine diesel fuel produced and imported will be ULSD.

Strange but all too familiar whining sound.....

To the fuel challenged among us:

Some people have a hard time coping with the simple things in life. Others find the near impossible to be an invigorating exercise. Which category each of us fit into is largely up to us.

If a pump is labeled ULSD it cannot dispense LSD. If it has NO label, it can dispense any kind of D2. If it is labeled LSD, it can be either LSD or ULSD.

If anyone fills at an indicated 1/2 tank, they have about 300 or so miles to FIND the elusive ULSD that others somehow manage to stumble upon even in the dark.

When we first bought out TDIs a few years ago, the wife and I took a pleasure drive around the area and made note of which stations we could fill our cars at and which we could not... perhaps the time spent posting here could be better spent actually doing that.... Nah, it's easier to complain about the unfairness of it all.


Bill

You mean it's straight D2?

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Yes, the manager told me it's straight diesel#2. I never though about asking to see the bill of lading. Pump label and receipt both print as D#2. She seemed to know the difference in the grades. Only thing that shocked me was when she told me that she only buys a load 3 or 4 times a year. Price last week was $2.799 a gallon. That's a 20-30 cent premium over the speedways and gas city. I will pay the price for the D#2 but I suspect that most others will not.

And yes, I've seem all (OK most) the various threads about Bio do's & don'ts. I came to the conclusion that I am sticking with D2 unless I can't. If I pick up some B20 I will dilute it with some D2 when I get the chance. But I'm not going to make a habit of the Bio yet.

I took a look at your spreadsheet. Did I read it wrong? Why so many stops at the service station? I'm once every 450 miles or so. Maybe more now that it's cold if I want to keep the tank full

40X40 said:

To the fuel challenged among us:

Some people have a hard time coping with the simple things in life. Others find the near impossible to be an invigorating exercise. Which category each of us fit into is largely up to us.

If a pump is labeled ULSD it cannot dispense LSD. If it has NO label, it can dispense any kind of D2. If it is labeled LSD, it can be either LSD or ULSD.

If anyone fills at an indicated 1/2 tank, they have about 300 or so miles to FIND the elusive ULSD that others somehow manage to stumble upon even in the dark.

When we first bought out TDIs a few years ago, the wife and I took a pleasure drive around the area and made note of which stations we could fill our cars at and which we could not... perhaps the time spent posting here could be better spent actually doing that.... Nah, it's easier to complain about the unfairness of it all.


Bill

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I run into the same problem locating McDonalds that sell the genuine Big Mac (workers that actually know how to put the special sauce together). Many carry only the quarter pounder with cheese and some only have dollar menu items. It gets really frustrating when you get McFail coupons in the newspaper that are only good at certain McFail franchises. Why send out coupons that won't be honored you ask? Who knows. Usually, we travel alot to find a good burger. After eating many imitation Big Macs you would think that they would master the special sauce already.

I find that the best solution is too actually read the menu, er pump, and look for those magical things they call "signs".

I like to fill once a week because it's a good way to spot changes in the mileage that indicate a problem-low tires, oil problems, brakes dragging etc. Plus it makes the pain of paying more tolerable. I get really testy when I start seeing the dollars roll by when I go for a few weeks before I fill.
The first 10 were when I was trying to get my Scanguage calibrated. Right now the tank average matches my calculations, which also pretty much match the cars report. Daily mileage is still off, as is instant mileage for some bizarre reason.

thebigarniedog said:

I run into the same problem locating McDonalds that sell the genuine Big Mac (workers that actually know how to put the special sauce together). Many carry only the quarter pounder with cheese and some only have dollar menu items. It gets really frustrating when you get McFail coupons in the newspaper that are only good at certain McFail franchises. Why send out coupons that won't be honored you ask? Who knows. Usually, we travel alot to find a good burger. After eating many imitation Big Macs you would think that they would master the special sauce already.

I find that the best solution is too actually read the menu, er pump, and look for those magical things they call "signs".

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Heh,

We often get in the car and go on a quest for the elusive 'GoodBurger'.
We once drove over an hour to get to Bobo's Drive-In in Topeka, KS. It has been featured on the Food Network and the homemade onion rings and apple pie were well worth the trip. (the burger was first rate too..)
There is bio for sale in Topeka, too.
Bill

Good fun guys, I always appreciate good humor. Interesting that what I have found in reality differs from what is supposed to be. Now isn't that amazing? I'm sure you will find that fact just as perplexing as I! Now, I sure do know what is SUPPOSED TA BE on the pump---right there longside the nozzle and the words "diesel" but, hard as it is to believe (I swear it's true guys, REALLY!!!!), many of the pumps don't have that nifty identification tag pasted there!! Ya know, there otta be a law!! Hey, wait a minute, there is, there is!! I send ya some "pitchers" so ya can all see fer yerselves!!

As for the elusive Burger, I'm at a loss---do they fry 'em in bio oil or what? Is it B2.....B20....?



Karl

A pitcher? Bud Light please.

Well, I call them pictures but I figured some might better recognize "pitcher" as THEIR word. I'm sure glad YOU caught it though! Pitcher of Bud Light coming right up for you!


Karl

karlthev said:

I got the point TR but now, not name-calling is it? "You have to be pretty much of a dunderhead to run low on fuel somewhere that doesn't have any ULSD."--TR I didn't think so---this is supposed to be an INFORMATIVE forum right?

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Who was labeled a dunderhead? No one by name, so not name-calling.

TornadoRed said:

Who was labeled a dunderhead? No one by name, so not name-calling.

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But if the shoe fits...

Bill

Ah yes, "if the shoe fits"....I do believe there COULD be a need for some mirrrors here!

"The names have been changed to protect the Iinnocent".....

I all of you will be more than pleased that I did find some of those nasty elusive ULSD stastions this weekend---right next to those special burgers you've looking for no less!

Thanks for the depth of support (Hmmm, was that SUPPORT now wasn't it---or do I need a pair of boots?) given to a newbie here! It's been just wondeful being welcomed so warmly into your friendly family of owners of the TDI! I am grateful beyond what my mere words can express!


Karl
Karl

Karl, if you're really set on the TDI, don't worry about fueling up as long as you can find at least one or two stations near your regular travel routes. For most of us, we don't fill up often enough to really worry. I fill up just about every 7 days and there is a HESS station that's about 15 minutes from my house that I prefer to get fuel at. I make it a point to plan a stop there once a week on my way home. Sure it's 15 minutes out of my way, but it's worth every penny and I wouldn't give up the TDI in a second despite the fact that there are literally only about 3 stations that carry diesel in my area. And that's what's great about the TDI, you can plan your fuel stops. If it's raining today and supposed to be sunny tomorrow, I'll get fuel tomorrow. Supposed to be snowing tonight? I'll stop tomorrow instead

And as you have pointed out, a lot of the website are incorrect. Heck, even VWs own RNS-510 is wrong sometimes. You can select to display stations that carry diesel on the map and I know of at least a couple stations that are supposed to carry diesel in my area but actually don't.

You mean it's straight D2? A lot of pumps aren't labeled, even though they should be. Have you seen the bill of lading to confirm it's not bio?

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Thunderstruck, I asked some questions today...technically, Biodiesel blends less than 5% bio require no additional label, it's also just called Diesel #2, Biodiesel blends more than 5% but less than 20% are (or are supposed to be) labeled as such. There is no Diesel #1 available. And yes, a bill of lading would show the diesel grade if the attendant would/could/wanted to show it to you.. (FYI..each independent station manager decides if they get the winterized diesel or not. (economics at work) So if you are concerned, you have to ask each time you try a new station if it is winterized. They don't usually label it at the pump. So that B/L would definately be nice to see. BP said that the tollway stations are all winterized.

I ended up having a conversation with a BP global fuels technology diesel engineer. Whoa!, too too much info to relay here. ...Suffice it to say the fuel at the Downers Grove BP is D2 from the Whiting Indianna facility. Their (Whiting) summer D2 has a cloud (beginning to Gell) rated to +15F. I think he told me that their winterized was -10For -15F If anybody wants they can reach him at 800-841-5255 select prompts "fuels technology", then #3.

Thornton's emailed back that Central IL stores carry ULSD and it contains 11% or less of Biodiesel. Additionally, the Chicago stores are mostly Bio and that every pump is labeled.

AND.....Karl, welcome to the world of TDI. They ARE a lot of fun. Hope you jump in!

http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D

http://www.newjerseygasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D

http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D

www. 'Name of the state gas prices' .com

Bill

That BP location used to sell the premium diesel when it was still available. I'm surprised they don't sell more of it. Their price was always reasonably good due to the Speedway a little east of there. I'd be leery of condensation in the tank after 5 months has passed by.

Thanks for the advice. You could have knocked me over with a feather when the manager said it's been literally the same diesel since August. I guess the ecomomy and the high price increases last year sent people to the cheaper biodiesel down the street. Pennies add up. But there's also the penny wise thing too. I see all the delivery and commercial vehicles at the speedway now-a-days.

I thought the same thing about the condensation. The BP engineer was more concerned about the possiblility of me gelling than he was about the moisture. He wasn't a particular fan of the powersevice white bottle type stuff. Said that at best it would only reduce the cloud point by 10 degrees. It would be better to burn off the summer diesel and then fill up at a station that offers the winterized cold flow diesel. So I will do that.

I still remember having similar issues (frozen fuel lines) with that other product...what did they call it? hmmmm....bad gasoline. So diesel isn't the lone ranger when it comes to watching where you fuel up.

Sorry for the absence here---I'm out of town and won't retun for days--I just know you've missed me!

I will find fuel and will establish some useable mental notes of where, along my typcial routes of travel, I can reliably find it. Should I inadvertently miscalculate my travel range and find myself stranded and without a suitable fuel source, please give me serious consideration for a "lift". I'll be holding a sign up with my "handle", karlthev and will be proclaiming "ULSD, ULSD.." at the top of my lungs!



Karl