Replacing exhaust

Can anyone point me to a thread on the best way to remove the exhaust from a MK4 Jetta? 2002 TDI 1.9L. Specifically the manifold bolted to the engine. I cannot get the nuts/studs loose, can barely get to them over the axle, one nut/stud is completely inaccessible via any kind of wrench I have. it's wedged so tight against the manifold and the engine, there's no room for a wrench, and the sockets I have tried seem to have too thick of walls to fit between the nut and the manifold. Doesn't look easy to get to them from the top of the engine either. Help please? I tried searching the forums, but I apparently am search challenged as I can never find what I need...

Are you trying to remove the turbocharger? If so, I think its easier to remove the intake manifold and go at it from the top. It should just be eight 12mm nuts, a regular socket should get at all of them just fine. There's a heat shield you need to remove to get to all of them that's bolted to the turbo.

The way you've worded your title and everything kinda makes me think you might not be trying to take off the turbo... if that's the case, you need not touch the manifold bolted to the head, its just 3 bolts that bolt the downpipe to the turbo.

I removed mine with a basic ratchet wrench. Have you tried accessing the nut by coming down on top of it while under the car? While under the car I was able to reach around the top of the turbo to get the back (which is actually the fron) nut off. The one between the block and the exhaust pipe.


Also, use penetrating oil to ease removal. The nuts should be copper so that they don't freeze up


Edit: I'm assuming you meant the downpipe? Please clarify

I guess it's the downpipe then, I did try to get to it from going around the top, the nuts are so rusted on that all I'm doing is stripping them trying to get them off, and even from the top, I can't get a wrench on that top nut. I sprayed PB Blaster on them first and let it soak in, but nothing is moving. I tried to put vice grips on the lowest nut yesterday and turn that, but still no go, just stripping the nut more. I started taking the top off the engine (I guess it's the intake manifold from what Joester says above), but there are so many hoses, lots of allen bolts, etc. I ended up draining the coolant out, because I pulled a hose out of the left side of the engine and coolant started pouring out. Per my title here, I'm a newbie to this and working on cars in general, learning as I go. This is a new challenge for me. I don't want to try and put a torch to the nuts, as there is so much stuff around them that could get damaged (axle rubber boot, hoses, lines, electrical stuff, etc.) Not sure what to try next.

So, just to confirm... you are trying to remove the downpipe by unbolting the 3 nuts holding it to the turbo?

If so, then you are going at it the right way - from the bottom, but they do get mighty rusty and corroded from a combination of the heat from the exhaust and the wet/salty road grime that can reach it.

They are hard to get to (especially that back one) but there should be plenty of room in there for either a regular box end wrench or a socket.

Heat, penetrating oil, and lots of wiggling are your friends but at 360k miles, it might be a lost cause and I wouldn't doubt that one or more studs end up breaking. If this happens, you'll want to remove the turbo, drill out the old studs and install new ones.

Time consuming, yes, but remember this is just part of owning a 14 year old car with tons of miles on it.

Good luck!


P.S. - you don't have to torch the nuts to get them hot, just drive the car for 10 minutes!

Would it be easier to remove the turbo to get at them? I have an oil leak on the back of the engine anyway, so maybe in the process I will figure out how to fix that...

Edit: yes, I guess I am trying to remove the downpipe, held on by 3 studs/nuts to the turbo. I am still learning what each of the parts of the engine, etc. are.

Oil leak probably coming from the back corners of the valve cover. Take it off, clean both mating surfaces, then put on RTV to fix that.

As for the nuts, you may have to put heat on it. Be sure to use a 6 sided socket/box wrench. Do not use the open end of the wrench. If it's too rusted for a socket to easily go on it you can use a hammer or something like it to drive the socket on the nut.

On my old turbo I had a stud break off. I drilled it all the way through and just used a regular bolt and nut.

If you do get it removed, be sure to replace the exhaust gaskets and obviously the nuts and use copper anti-seize this time.

Edit: Are you using a deep well socket? My studs were too long for a regular socket. If so, just drive it on there and remove it. Or get a nut extractor
And removing the turbo means more rusty old nuts to try and remove for no reason

Thanks HogWrangler (and Joester ), I do have deep sockets, but with the 3rd nut/stud on top, I wasn't able to get it on, and the space doesn't lend itself to using a hammer, but will attempt that tomorrow. I'm trying to get the back top (intake manifold?) of the engine off currently, the allen bolts are really rusted/stuck too... proving to be a major challenge to get them off.

jfwestgen said:

Thanks HogWrangler (and Joester ), I do have deep sockets, but with the 3rd nut/stud on top, I wasn't able to get it on, and the space doesn't lend itself to using a hammer, but will attempt that tomorrow. I'm trying to get the back top (intake manifold?) of the engine off currently, the allen bolts are really rusted/stuck too... proving to be a major challenge to get them off.

Click to expand...

You may need to do an intake cleaning if you've never had it off before. there are several threads on here about it. Good luck with that third bolt!

Here is one thread for intake cleaning that was for an 02 http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/Intake_Manifold_Cleaning.pdf

Thanks HogWrangler!! That PDF is awesome! will definitely do that tomorrow!

update

So I finally got the exhaust off after I removed the intake manifold following that pdf process and I also removed the turbo and the exhaust manifold. However, most of the nuts and bolts were rusted and stuck and I damaged a few of them getting them off. Anyone know the best place to get replacement nuts and bolts? Do I have to go to a dealership/order from VW directly? Also, any recommendations for cleaning the manifolds in terms of solvents, etc.? Any advice is appreciated!

idparts has a lot if you can wait for shipping. Which bolts were damaged? You can run a tap if needed. I had a bolt stripped on my cooler and just tapped it to a standard bolt because that was what I had on hand.

As far as cleaning, burning works really well if you use common sense. I put a tad bit of gas in it, lit it, then blew compressed air through it to make it become a torch. Gas also works really well to clean it, just BE SURE that none is remaining when you put the intake back on.

A pressure washer also works and will do wonders if the pressure washer has a burner (super hot water)

jfwestgen said:

I have an oil leak on the back of the engine anyway, so maybe in the process I will figure out how to fix that...

Click to expand...

The vacuum pump could be leaking oil as well, it makes a mess of the back of the motor, for a relatively little leak.

merk said:

The vacuum pump could be leaking oil as well, it makes a mess of the back of the motor, for a relatively little leak.

Click to expand...

x2!!!, the VP on my 02 has been leaking for years and makes a big mess with little oil lost.
I plan on doing the same as the OP , getting the turbo off and the like and will get to the VP leak then.

merk said:

The vacuum pump could be leaking oil as well, it makes a mess of the back of the motor, for a relatively little leak.

Click to expand...

Thanks merk, it was leaking but I replaced that gasket and stopped that leak. The leak I was referring to is coming from the exhaust manifold bolts where they connect to the block. I removed the exhaust manifold and I'm cleaning it and the gasket and then if it continues, going to do as HogWrangler suggests and take off the valve cover and apply RTV.

HogWrangler said:

idparts has a lot if you can wait for shipping. Which bolts were damaged? You can run a tap if needed. I had a bolt stripped on my cooler and just tapped it to a standard bolt because that was what I had on hand.

As far as cleaning, burning works really well if you use common sense. I put a tad bit of gas in it, lit it, then blew compressed air through it to make it become a torch. Gas also works really well to clean it, just BE SURE that none is remaining when you put the intake back on.

A pressure washer also works and will do wonders if the pressure washer has a burner (super hot water)

Click to expand...

In terms of the bolts, pretty much all of them (intake manifold, exhaust manifold, turbo, EGR, cooler, hoses) are all very rusted and crappy... not that experienced in drilling and tapping and don't want to screw things up (pun not intended), so just going to replace all the bad ones.

For the couple nuts and bolts I mangled trying to get free, going to replace those too. I stripped the allen bolt holding the VNT actuator on to the turbo/manifold, and completely mangled one of the nuts holding the flex hose to the EGR cooler. I haven't been able to work on it for a couple days now, but hope to make some more progress this weekend so that I can get everything put back together this month...

Update

So since I don't have a solvent bath or a pressure washer, attempted to clean all the parts by soaking everything in a combination of Purple Power degreaser from Walmart, diesel fuel, carb cleaner, and water.... needless to say that just ended up being a huge mess... So I just went with the Carb cleaner, some rags, wire brushes, toothbrushes, and a bottle brush. I got most of the stuff cleaned, but have some questions:

1. I can't seem to get to the inside of the intake manifold to clean it, thinking I just need to find a longer bottle brush, but is there a better way to get to it?

2. I saw a good video on Youtube about cleaning the turbo and I'm worried about the fact that I may have gotten debris in it due to my inexperience at taking things apart. Do I risk putting it back on without cleaning, or do I take it apart and take my chances?

3. The Turbo has a larger section attached, I'm guessing that it's what people are referring to as the exhaust manifold. It's similar to the intake manifold, so same question applies; longer bottle brush to get to the inside?

4. I have read some of the other sections about the VNT actuator and how to test it, but have no clue what the tests are and how to perform them, do I need to test mine before putting it back on, or again, cross fingers and hope it's ok?

5. Is there a way to take the top off of the EGR valve and clean in there? I had this submerged in the gunk with the other stuff and now I'm worried that it may have junk in it that I can't see/clean... specifically the top piece with that copper nozzle and then underneath there seems to be another valve, almost like a butane port on a refillable lighter. Has black crud in it from the soaking, not sure how to get it out, tried the Carb Cleaner and a pick, but couldn't get all of it out.

6. What exactly is that black part on the side of the EGR valve for? Do I need to worry about calibrating/testing it?

As my profile states, I'm a newbie, not only to VW's and TDI's, but to working on cars in general. I bought this car because I was interested in doing all the work myself and was getting tired of getting ripped off by dealers/repair places. I also probably classify under the adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" as I seem to be getting myself in more messes... I'm learning through this forum and Youtube and my Bentley manuals, so hopefully I get to the point where I don't make my situation worse...

Sorry for the long post, but any advice would be greatly appreciated!

jfwestgen said:

1. I can't seem to get to the inside of the intake manifold to clean it, thinking I just need to find a longer bottle brush, but is there a better way to get to it?
Long brushes, toothbrushes, frayed cables, fire, soaking in solvent, pressure washing, anything really just be as creative as you can to try to get every last bit of gunk out of there. It is imparative that thre are no loose bits of carbon in there when you reinstall the intake manifold!

2. I saw a good video on Youtube about cleaning the turbo and I'm worried about the fact that I may have gotten debris in it due to my inexperience at taking things apart. Do I risk putting it back on without cleaning, or do I take it apart and take my chances?

There are two sides to the turbo, the cast iron exhaust side and the silver aluminum intake side. Debris on either side can do damage but debris on the intake side can do more damage. I'd perform a visual inspection of the turbo to look for any large debris and then reinstall it. There's really no need to clean the turbo at all unless you suspect that the VNT mechanism is sticking.


3. The Turbo has a larger section attached, I'm guessing that it's what people are referring to as the exhaust manifold. It's similar to the intake manifold, so same question applies; longer bottle brush to get to the inside?
You don't need to brush the turbo out at all. If you are hitting limp mode or underboost, then you might need to perform a chemical cleaning of the VNT actuator, which is what the small vacuum solenoid mounted to the turbo actuates. If a chemical cleaning doesnt fix it, you have to entirely disassemble the turbo to manually clean it properly.

4. I have read some of the other sections about the VNT actuator and how to test it, but have no clue what the tests are and how to perform them, do I need to test mine before putting it back on, or again, cross fingers and hope it's ok?

The VNT actuator, as stated in the last answer is the movable "lever" near the middle part of the turbo... the thing the vaccum solenoid actuates. There is a specification as to how much vaccum starts the solenoid moving, and then a spec as to when the level the solenoid is moving should be maxxed out. it should start moving at about 4"Hg and then hit the stop screw on the turbo at about 18"Hg. You need a vaccum pump and gauge to calibrate this. If you didnt mess with it when you took off the turbo then there's no need to adjust it unless you are fighting limp mode. If you have a vacuum gauge however it would be smart to check it, just for good measure.

5. Is there a way to take the top off of the EGR valve and clean in there? I had this submerged in the gunk with the other stuff and now I'm worried that it may have junk in it that I can't see/clean... specifically the top piece with that copper nozzle and then underneath there seems to be another valve, almost like a butane port on a refillable lighter. Has black crud in it from the soaking, not sure how to get it out, tried the Carb Cleaner and a pick, but couldn't get all of it out.
If you soaked the whole EGR piece then you may now have a leaky EGR as a result. There is no way to take off the top piece. The proper method of cleaning out the EGR is to just get in there with picks and brushes, but there is a rubber diaphragm in there that harsh chemicals may have destroyed. I would test the EGR function with a vacuum pump before reinstalling this on the car.

6. What exactly is that black part on the side of the EGR valve for? Do I need to worry about calibrating/testing it?
Black part on the EGR actuates the anti-shudder valve. It closes the plate on the inside of the EGR valve. I'm really not trying to offend when I say this, but if you cant deduce what that part does by just looking at it then maybe you shouldnt be working this in-depth on your car yet, but I respect your adventurous additude.
There is no need to calibrate or do anything special to this black part.
Good luck!

Click to expand...

test test

Joester hit it all perfectly. Some people use butter knifes and bend the tips to reach hard areas. Gas is an excellent cleaner for the intake and will remove all of the gunk is and super inexpensive compared to other cleaners.

Pour a LITTLE gas in the intake and light it on fire. Then, scrape out the soot and continue scraping and brushing everything out.

The EGR cleaning is meticulous work. Just do the best you can with all of it. It doesn't have to be brand new spotless, but the cleaner the better.

Your turbo will be fine as long as there are no large pieces of debris

If you need to replace the EGR valve then I recommend this one for price/performance (been working fine for me for 10k miles now):

http://www.fixmyvw.com/new-egr-valve-for-1998-2003-vw-1-9l-alh-diesel-045131501c/

I've cleaned two intakes now and found that the torch method was the cleanest, though it's still work. I completed the cleaning by rattling small square nuts inside; the larger, sharper edges on these kinds of nuts do a good job of chipping away. And if you want to be even more anal, like me, you can throw a bunch of US dimes (or other small coins with ridged edges) and shake those around- I got a lot of powder, eventually nothing, which I figured was a sign that all was clean. A bore scope would be really handy: I hate having to guess whether the intake is thoroughly clean. ALSO, you MIGHT find that the intake ports on your head also need to be cleaned; this is yet a fair amount of additional work (I think I rang up an extra 3 hours doing it on my wife's car [mine didn't need it]). Here's some good info on doing this: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=434238

Thanks guy's! I really appreciate it!

I'm really not trying to offend when I say this, but if you cant deduce what that part does by just looking at it then maybe you shouldnt be working this in-depth on your car yet, but I respect your adventurous additude.
There is no need to calibrate or do anything special to this black part.

Joester, I actually did know that it moved the plate, I should have been more specific about what it's function in the scheme of things was, but you answered that for me, it actuates the anti-shudder valve. So thank you!

I didn't even know what the EGR was or did until I had to start taking things apart and searched on here. I don't really have the option of paying someone else to do this stuff right now due to my financial situation, so I'm doing the best I can with lots of great advice from you guys! Thanks!

Are you saying that it's only the vacuum control for the ASV (Anti-Shudder Valve)? If that's the only thing that's messed up (with the EGR), then:

http://www.fixmyvw.com/egr-valve-actuator-for-alh-tdi/

UhOh said:

Are you saying that it's only the vacuum control for the ASV (Anti-Shudder Valve)? If that's the only thing that's messed up (with the EGR), then:

http://www.fixmyvw.com/egr-valve-actuator-for-alh-tdi/

Click to expand...

Thanks UhOh, I actually don't know if anything is wrong with it or not, I guess I will find out when I put everything back together. This whole project started because I needed to replace the exhaust to pass inspection and I couldn't get the nuts off where the downpipe connects to the exhaust manifold/turbo. Had to take the EGR cooler, EGR, intake manifold, turbo/exhaust manifold off to get the exhaust off. while taking all of that off, noticed that there was a lot of carbon build up, so decided to clean it while I had it all apart... Fingers crossed that everything works after putting it back together! Thanks for the links, I appreciate it!

Update

So after almost a year of life preventing me from working on my Jetta... I ended up buying a new turbo, new braided oil feed line, new gaskets, bolts, etc. and I'm starting to put everything back together, but have a few questions for all you experts out there (I'm still pretty much a beginner at this).
1. I bought a new gasket for the oil return line, but it has a side that has writing on it and a plain side and not sure which side needs to face the turbo. Does it matter? I tried searching for this online and on Youtube and couldn't find the answer.
2. With the braided oil feed line, I got 2 fittings and 2 copper crush washers, but I thought that each fitting would need 2 washers, one on either side. Do I need to buy 2 more washers? Or if I only need one, which side of the fitting do they go on? The hose? or the turbo/engine side? I tried searching on this, but couldn't find the answer.
3. I cleaned the intake manifold, and the EGR valve, but upon inspection of the EGR cooler, it's all carboned up too. How do I clean it? Searching online only gets me how to clean the valve or cleaning huge EGR coolers for tractor trailer/tractor engines. Can I use brake cleaner for this like I did with the intake manifold and EGR valve?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I know I've been told before that I'm in over my head with this, but I really want to learn and enjoy learning this stuff, and the best way to learn I've found is by doing (and making mistakes and learning from them).

Hey there, glad you're back at it.

1 - The gasket shouldnt be directional, just make sure it is a symmetrical gasket, which im pretty sure it is. Its been a while since I've taken off my turbo so I don't quite remember.

2 - If I remember right, you have to install one fitting in the "oil in" port on the turbo itself and then the other fitting on the oil filter housing on the engine. Each fitting gets 1 washer, then you screw the oil line onto those fittings and its a compression seal which requires no washers. So 1 fitting and washer on the turbo, 1 fitting and washer on the oil filter housing, then install the line.

3 - People dont often clean the EGR cooler as its not usually the "gummy" crud like you find in the manifold itself. I'd just leave it how it is, if you really must clean it then a bristle brush and some compressed air should do a decent job but no one really ever cleans the cooler itself.

Good luck!

Thanks Joester!

I took a picture of the end of the EGR cooler... but can't figure out how to insert it here, the attachment option doesn't show up even though I followed the FAQ for it. it has a lot of carbon build up. I will just use a brush on it, just wasn't sure if there was more down in all the little tubes inside.

Post your pics at a host web site like Photobucket etc...

Then post the image link to it in your post. It should then show up inline. Our own pic server here is similar and helps to use it as it reduces broken links from moved deleted images later.

The banjo bolts get one copper washer per side. They are soft and crush to seal so you have one washer on each side of the line or bolt head to fitting, then fitting to block/turbo/oil feed etc.

The oil cooler will burn off when running.

Update - Finally! back together!

So after a year of various issues, I have finally gotten the engine (turbo, EGR cooler & valve, intake manifold, exhaust manifold) back together! However... I have one extra part that looks important that I have no clue what it is and I'm nervous about starting the car back up again and putting it on the road without figuring out what this is... Can any identify what this is?

Pictures are not showing up.

Debbie

yeah, Google+ changed their format and wiped out my pic links.

Here are the pics. My brother-in-law thinks it's a restrictor for a coolant hose, but I tried Googling every combination of vw, jetta, tdi, restrictor, hose, coolant with no luck in seeing this exact part. I also searched IDparts.com for it with no luck... Still have no clue what it is...

It's 1 and 1/4 inches in diameter (about the size of a quarter) and about a 1/4 high