VW says AWD SportWagen coming in 2016

IndigoBlueWagon · Jan 27, 2015

What you calling ugly?

That's my son's new (to him) Golf with snows and a Metalnerd 2" lift. Firestone Winterforces. Pretty unstoppable, but not beautiful, I'll agree.

My wagon looks a lot better, IMO.

I run Continental Extreme Winter Contacts and they are grippy, stable in dry, and QUIET. Third (and probably last) season with these. Drove to Detroit and back with them two weeks ago and no complaints. 45 MPG, too.

And they got me into work last winter in this, before the parking lot was plowed.

BTW, the Golf is on all-seasons. He made it, too. I think a lot of winter and slippery condition driving is about technique. My wagon makes about 260 lb/ft. of torque, closer to 300 in previous winters, and I can drive it in snow without spinning the wheels. No ASR or ESP, either.

nate0031 · Jan 27, 2015

I don't think anyone is arguing that FWD is bad in snow. I find it rather capable, especially after driving the Firebird WS6 a few winters, lol. On that note, I think what people are saying is that AWD is even better. I don't think the 'naysayers' disagree with this, but instead disagree with the implied necessity of it for a car to be a competent winter driver. To this point, I think it's necessity really depends on where you drive, and what your personal preferences are.

My Jetta got me almost everywhere I needed in the snow, and only had troubles in pretty specific areas. I could live without AWD. But, my driveway is 250 feet, and a pretty steep hill. At the very top, and steepest part, it turns, with either side being a dropoff. This makes it so you can't carry any speed. Anytime we had snow or ice last year, I had to park at the bottom and walk. Not because I didn't try it, because I did. I also slid down backwards many times, spun around and ended up in the yard. So here's to AWD taking me the last few hundred feet. If you live in a flat area, you can probably get away without it. With hilly and curvy terrain though, I think the benefits really start to shine.

On top of that, I'm not going to do a TDI swap into a car that came with one of VWAG's best AWD systems, and not use an AWD car, lol.

I think regardless of the platform, much of how well one does in the snow comes down to the driver, and that driver knowing how to handle whatever they drive. I've cruised past many drivers in AWD cars in my FWD Jetta, and I've seen my fair share of Subaru's off the road in snow, likely due to overconfidence and complacency.

truman · Jan 27, 2015

FWD on a steep incline doesn't work too good, especially from a stop. I can see AWD as a necessity in hilly or mountainous regions that get snow. For most of us, FWD w/snows is very adequate. There is a place for AWD. I would like to have more ground clearance, however, for road kill, tire carcasses, and the occasional deep snow.

frugality · Jan 27, 2015

dubStrom said:
I bought a 1988 Honda CRX HF (new, in 1988). It was a special deal ($1988!). This car had very little ground clearance,the HF was the lightest, least powerful, fuel sipper, which actually DID get me 56 mpg when on the highway. When winter came along, I got a set of 4 narrow slightly tall, Armstrong SNOW radial tires (13 inch wheels!)...

One snow storm in Northern New Mexico had a foot of snow on the ground, and I was driving from Santa Fe North on I25 in the half blizzard conditions, plowing through with swirls billowing over the car as I drove. Blazing along at 60-65mph after dusk, I encountered red tail lights ahead of me, cruising at about 55mph.

I gently, slowly pressed the throttle more, and more, gaining speed to near 70mph (limit was 65). When I approached, the vehicle in question turned out to be a Blazer. As I got closer and passed, I saw the gold stripes on the side, and the lights on the top (4WD State Trooper).

Determined (and a little startled), I kept the speed at 69-70 mph. The little 70HP honda tracked like a snowmobile, and pulled ahead, consistently, and sweetly.

But when I was about 400 feet ahead of him, he turned his pursuit lights on. And I thought to myself, "Is that for me?", but more importantly..."Can he keep up?" I just slowly pressed the throttle down, and slowly, crept away from him. My speed reached about 80mph, and the whole time it felt like a sled, dragging me in the direction I pointed the front wheels. The flashing red lights slowly receded, drifting way back.

About 5 miles later, I exited swiftly at my destination, and slipped into town (small Northern town that will remain un-named). Was he after me? I'll never know. There is much more to this story that I'll reserve for close friends.

This was a junction for me, because I was travelling to Taos Ski Valley. So I stopped at the University heating plant, and asked my friend to bring out the steam hose. We melted the ice blocks that had accumulated around the tires (making turning difficult!), and deiced the windshield. It was still snowing heavily, and I pressed on, undaunted up to the snow-ridden Taos Ski Valley. Fortunately, the snow backed off as I drove over US Hill to Taos, and the Valley got dumped on earlier in the day. The roads were plowed up there.

Front Wheel drive, with the right tires, is probably nearly as good as all wheel drive. You can probably do better when you can't use momentum, or on extended uphill situations with AWD. When I was a kid, we had a couple of Subarus (when you could get FWD Subarus!!!), and they were just as reliable in the deep snow. Momentum, and driving skills were all it took to plow through it. The right tires-narrow, and taller real snow tires, are very important though. It was one of those experiences that validated my choice in drive train, and tire choice!

Great story.

My JSW has more torque. Can't hurt!

Ah, but it can. I can easily break my Michelin X-Ice 3's loose. Too much torque, and tires are too wide (stock width.) Yet I rarely have the ABS kick in, so the tires do work very well. But I can get shamed at stoplights with sedans with all-seasons pulling away from me, and I can't figure it out. The Continental ExtremeWinterContacts were the same. While both have rated extremely well, I think next time I'm going with more aggressive snows.

dubStrom · Jan 28, 2015

frugality said:
Great story.
Ah, but it can. I can easily break my Michelin X-Ice 3's loose. Too much torque, and tires are too wide (stock width.) Yet I rarely have the ABS kick in, so the tires do work very well. But I can get shamed at stoplights with sedans with all-seasons pulling away from me, and I can't figure it out. The Continental ExtremeWinterContacts were the same. While both have rated extremely well, I think next time I'm going with more aggressive snows.

I know what you mean. You can't just push down the throttle! But the nice thing about a diesel is the way you can dial up an rpm with throttle position. Driving in snow involves grinding at rpm slightly higher than you are travelling, and low HP, high torque engine characteristics is more controllable in those situations if you keep the pedal where you need it. The electronic control (no cable!) took a bit of that away, but it is still easier to control than a higher hp engine with low torque.

One other comment on AWD relevant to this thread... I've own two AWD Subarus, and driven them in deep snow.. AWD is always quicker of the start, and can keep making headway up hills where FWD loses momentum. But I always noticed AWD sliding sideways more often, and feeling squirrely compared to FWD. I guess it is the rear wheels breaking loose and going sideways, and possibly pushing the front wheels into understeer when you are turning as well. That latter effect screws up the pulling advantage of FWD. That instability is usually subtle, and limited, but before I got used to it, I would have jolts of adrenalin to deal with. Once I got use to it, I realized it didn't spin out or drive off due to understeer as long as you were not going to fast, and the answer was to blaze on. But it felt less controlled (steering) than FWD. I wonder if anyone else has experienced that?

If you live on a hill, or need to drive on steep hills where there is lots of snow (particularly from a stop light/stop sign), or insist on accelerating quickly from a stop when it is snowy, you will benefit from AWD. I know it's great to be able to pull right out ahead of all the other cars and choose my lane in 4WD in snow (Toyota 4X4 with tall narrow commercial snow tires). But for moderate hills, even in pretty deep snow, I still prefer the lively and controllable, steerable response of FWD.

TDIL3dad · Jan 28, 2015

LRTDI said:
Funny how AWD wagons make sense in the US of you want to pay Audi prices but not VW.

Maybe the marketing wizards at VW USA lurk on this Forum and will hear us!

Come on VW, you can sell niche vehicles in the US like the convertible EOS and the Routan but you won't sell a TDI Passat wagon??

truman · Jan 28, 2015

TDIL3dad said:
Maybe the marketing wizards at VW USA lurk on this Forum and will hear us!

Come on VW, you can sell niche vehicles in the US like the convertible EOS and the Routan but you won't sell a TDI Passat wagon??

Look at all the market buzz when VW brought out the Beetle in 99. Chipping away at the middle of the market is not going to move the brand forward.
How about Microbus, Alltrack, Amarok, and Bluemotion for starters?

kjclow · Jan 28, 2015

truman said:
Look at all the market buzz when VW brought out the Beetle in 99. Chipping away at the middle of the market is not going to move the brand forward.
How about Microbus, Alltrack, Amarok, and Bluemotion for starters?

I'd still add the Polo to that list. If VW wants to be the number one car brand in the world, they need to have a low cost offering.

geoman · Jan 28, 2015

so I talked to a local fleet manager about the prospect of a mk7 golf tdi 4motion wagon coming anytime soon & he's convinced that there will be one but it'll be a dsg 4mo wagon but gasser(1.8t?) only in Canada. talk about shattering a dream! on a positive note he's also convinced that there is a diesel tiguan offering on the horizon(2017ish).

dubStrom · Jan 28, 2015

2 pennies a mile

I watched this commercial when I hadsingle digit candle counts on my birthday cakes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=684937sSN1E
Fuel cost only, I'm under 9 pennies a mile today on the JSW. Add $50 for oil and filter for the first oil change at 10k adds a nickel per mile. That's under 14 cent per mile. Cost of purchase? Well, that blows the equation doesn't it! With fuel prices at Sci Fi low levels Polo would sit on the lots in NA. But I'd take a 3 cylinder Polo TDI 6MT anyday. I'd keep the wagon for trips and occasional driving, buy the Polo for commute.

This tantalizing Golf AWD vaporware fairydust dangling out there reminds me of the talk about Subaru Boxer Diesel in 2010. It is astonishing that Tiguan TDI is not in NA. It should be the best AWD TDI seller for Volkswagen.

wait4TDIPD · Jan 29, 2015

more "tantalizing vaporware..."

dubStrom said:
I watched this commercial when I hadsingle digit candle counts on my birthday cakes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=684937sSN1E
Fuel cost only, I'm under 9 pennies a mile today on the JSW. Add $50 for oil and filter for the first oil change at 10k adds a nickel per mile. That's under 14 cent per mile. Cost of purchase? Well, that blows the equation doesn't it! With fuel prices at Sci Fi low levels Polo would sit on the lots in NA. But I'd take a 3 cylinder Polo TDI 6MT anyday. I'd keep the wagon for trips and occasional driving, buy the Polo for commute.

This tantalizing Golf AWD vaporware fairydust dangling out there reminds me of the talk about Subaru Boxer Diesel in 2010. It is astonishing that Tiguan TDI is not in NA. It should be the best AWD TDI seller for Volkswagen.

I like the way you describe that: "tantalizing.... ." ;
and there was the Maza 6 diesel - oops, not - (yet?)

Something for more 'drooling'

:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1026484_2015-volkswagen-golf-gtd-variant-forbidden-fruit

I never understood vw of America marketing.

TDIMeister · Jan 29, 2015

Volkswagen Golf GTD Estate Teases Us from Across the Pond

TDIBone · Jan 29, 2015

Volkswagen to Debut Golf GTD Variant in Geneva

I didn't think this was exactly new, but:
http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2015/01/volkswagen-to-debut-golf-gtd-variant-in-geneva/

geoman · Jan 29, 2015

awd jsw tdi still makes sense

dubStrom said:
It is astonishing that Tiguan TDI is not in NA. It should be the best AWD TDI seller for Volkswagen.

I dunno...
if jsw tdi's are $30kish wouldn't tiguan tdi's be $40-45ish? approaching q5 tdi territory, no? not to mention that a tdi tiggy offering doesn't guarantee a 4motion option.

kjclow · Jan 29, 2015

Based on the 2014 gasser pricing, it looks like a FWD twiggy runs about $5000 more than a JSW. So, yes, a fully loaded 4motion TDI Tiggy would probably be low to mid 40s.

geoman · Jan 30, 2015

add $2500+ to that tdi tiguan to make it 4motion and I think my money is on the jsw for best seller. of course, that is assuming that vw will sell more less-expensive units than pricier ones. $10k+ difference between vehicles w/similar capabilities closes the buying window for plenty of people. that same difference in price does however offer plenty more profit to vw.
just throwing this out there; would you consider an awd jsw gasser?

kjclow · Jan 30, 2015

If I had to go to a gasser, I'm not sure that I would stay with VW.

atc98002 · Jan 30, 2015

geoman said:
I dunno...
if jsw tdi's are $30kish wouldn't tiguan tdi's be $40-45ish? approaching q5 tdi territory, no? not to mention that a tdi tiggy offering doesn't guarantee a 4motion option.

I was seriously considering a Q5, but the top line was $57k, and they start about 46K. If a Tig is fully loaded (at least with what I want) in the low 40s, it's still far cheaper than a Q5. Plus, the Q5 is larger.

I did take an extended drive in a Q5 that was the "base" TDI. No options other than Nav. Drove great, and according to the dash readout the mileage was outstanding (almost 40 for the same trip my Tiguan would have maybe reached 26). It was a low mileage exec car, and I would have bought it if it had a couple of other options (mainly the upgraded audio). Plus, it was priced a little too high. I could have paid about $6k more and gotten a brand new one.

dubStrom · Jan 30, 2015

geoman said:
I dunno...
if jsw tdi's are $30kish wouldn't tiguan tdi's be $40-45ish? approaching q5 tdi territory, no? not to mention that a tdi tiggy offering doesn't guarantee a 4motion option.

I paid $26 for my 2014 JSW (6MT), and I see (local VW inventory) that you can still buy them (including DSG) for about the same right now. You can buy a 4Motion Tiguan S for under $30k here. So a TDI could come in at under $35k. $37k if they insist on loading it with some basic features on S models. That's way, WAY less than Q5, or Tuareg. As I said... Tiguan TDI would be sweet, sell here better than JSW TDI. I am sure.

I saw a used '04 V10 Touareg TDI with ~100k miles (running strong) for under $14k today. Leather, loaded, torque like a locomotive. What fun would THAT be!

alhutch · Jan 31, 2015

Of course VW is building a GTD wagon...

TDIMeister said:
Volkswagen Golf GTD Estate Teases Us from Across the Pond

Meister - that was just cruel to post this!

geoman · Feb 1, 2015

dubStrom said:
So a TDI could come in at under $35k. $37k if they insist on loading it with some basic features on S models.

I saw a used '04 V10 Touareg TDI with ~100k miles (running strong) for under $14k today. Leather, loaded, torque like a locomotive. What fun would THAT be!

its still about the price gap rather than about its price proximity to the q5. $26k jsw vs $35k+ tiggy then.
as an aside, there is the north American penchant for bloated air-pushing cuv/suv vehics which might just make your suspicion correct...& yes that toureg would be cheap (yet luxurious) entertainment!

dubStrom · Feb 2, 2015

Even Fiat is planning an AWD model, but this bends CUV to new micro dimensions:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1027025_2016-fiat-500x-u-s-specs-video

Naturally, only gassers are planned for US market, while a 130hp TD version will be available in Europe. Predictable.
http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/motor/nuevos-objetivos-3878218
Google users translate to English with right click (choose translate to English).

The North American market seems doomed to have only gasser AWD CUV/SUV models unless willing to pay over $50k, and no TD AWD wagons under $44k (order one with no options from BMW).

kjclow · Feb 2, 2015

Saw the Fiat add during the superbowl last night. Cute ad but didn't really show much about the car/cuv.

tophergrace · Feb 10, 2015

kjclow said:
If I had to go to a gasser, I'm not sure that I would stay with VW.

If I don't stay with diesel my interest is turned towards the focus rs

msantram · Feb 10, 2015

dubStrom said:
As I said... Tiguan TDI would be sweet, sell here better than JSW TDI. I am sure.

I used to have the same opinion. But after driving a loaner Tiggy for a few days last year, it felt more like Miss Piggy. A lot of bloated huff and puff, but very little action. Give me a SW anyday.

A 4motion all track SW would be a jump kick to Subaru. The fit & finish on a SW is just flat superior to the Tiggy.

dubStrom said:
I saw a used '04 V10 Touareg TDI with ~100k miles (running strong) for under $14k today. Leather, loaded, torque like a locomotive. What fun would THAT be!

+1 here. The Toureg is a sweet ride, but the price tag on a new one? Not so much. For the cost of a new Toureg, I'd get a Benzo instead. 14k for a used one, I'd think hard about it.

VW has the ability to squash many of their reliability issues while also selling more cars if they gave us better options. My belief has long been that VW never wants to sacrifice the potential for buyers to move up the ladder and buy an Audi to get what they want.

geoman · Feb 10, 2015

msantram said:
The fit & finish on a SW is just flat superior to the Tiggy.

my wife's '10 highline tiggy is finished soooo much nicer than my '09 jsw comfortline. I definitely agree on the bloat/float thing though. the mk7 highline gsw despite conservative styling looks pretty nice inside & will sound great with fender audio.
I wonder if the allroad will have a 'panzer plate'-style oilpan protector? iirc, mk5 4mo's had it as an option. does anyone know the part #?

BeetleGo · Feb 12, 2015

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/12/2015-vw-golf-sportwagen-priced-from-21-395/#image-2

I don't know whether the diesel is coming in 2016, but the Golf Sportwagon is due to arrive later this year.

truman · Feb 12, 2015

Base model TSI 5M appears to be the best value @ 21395. Downer would be no lighting package on base models.
I would likely go with TDI SE w/lighting, tempted by the better seats in the SEL.
It will be interesting to see how/when the Alltrack falls into the lineup. I'm thinking the Alltrack will be 28-35k. It will also be interesting to see what kind of rear suspension the Alltrack gets. I would assume it would have to be IRS?

kjclow · Feb 12, 2015

What I find interesting is that the difference for the diesel across the trim lines decreases. The S trim diesel is $3200 and the Se and SEL are only $1000 more for diesel. I think those prices are autos in the gassers and manuals in the diesels, but that still works out to $2100 more for the SE and SEL diesels with the dsg.

truman · Feb 12, 2015

kjclow said:
What I find interesting is that the difference for the diesel across the trim lines decreases. The S trim diesel is $3200 and the Se and SEL are only $1000 more for diesel. I think those prices are autos in the gassers and manuals in the diesels, but that still works out to $2100 more for the SE and SEL diesels with the dsg.

Interesting observation. Suspect the S-TSI is discounted to advertise an attractive entry price level? Which makes the S-TSI an even better value. I hate that kind of delimma- right brain, left brain controversy. Right brain wants 6M TDI SEL. Left says base model a way better value. I have a few years to come to terms with this. The decision will become more complicated if the Alltrack appears.

VW says AWD SportWagen coming in 2016

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