MDI interface/stereo draining iPod battery when parked for 2 days?

As I alluded to at http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3000532&postcount=8 a month ago... I can now confirm that my car will drain an iPod battery in about 48 hours if the device is turned off but left plugged in via MDI cable. I can also confirm that the problem isn't my iPod.

Is this normal? And if so, why the hell would they make the car so you can't leave an iPod in there and forget about it? It's annoying to have to pull up the armrest and disconnect the thing anytime I'm not driving the car constantly.

Use the SD card slot

Just Kitting...

IMHO: The cable also charges your ipod battery so once you connect it, it completes the circut. If there is a charge coming from your car to your ipod, if you turn off the circut from your car, then the circut will flow from your ipod to your car.

ITS JUST A THEORY!!! If I'm wrong just say so, you dont have to try to look smart and dispute it... I'm pulling from my arse...

That's certainly an option, but my line of thought is... why buy a card and take the time to fill it with music that is already on various devices when the iPod is already paid for and works perfectly?

I'm most curious if this is normal, or if my car has some electrical issue.

Specifically what's drawing power and how much and why.

Need to find my multi-meter.

UGM10Golf said:

IMHO: The cable also charges your ipod battery so once you connect it, it completes the circut. If there is a charge coming from your car to your ipod, if you turn off the circut from your car, then the circut will flow from your ipod to your car.

ITS JUST A THEORY!!! If I'm wrong just say so, you dont have to try to look smart and dispute it... I'm pulling from my arse...

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to look smart because it's pretty clear that I'm not

Your theory seems plausible. But I don't know much about car electricals.

Note: if you pull the MDI cable from the car connector (but leave it plugged into the iPod connector), there is less than 10% power loss during the same timeframe. Which is about as much as the device loses if it's not plugged into anything at all.

So where is that power going, and again, why?

I live in Texas and if I left my ipod in the car for 2 days, I would end up with melted ipod.

Im pretty sure it's because leaving the ipod connected to the cable completes the circut and eletricity will flow in either directions.
If I unplug my phone charger from the wall and still leave it attached to my phone, the red led light still stays lite up. So it pulling electricty from the phone.

getfast said:

So where is that power going, and again, why?

Click to expand...

Also worth noting: my prior car didn't do this. It had a cheap Alpine head unit with a similar type of cable (i.e. plugs into the bottom of the iPod and charges while it plays.) That setup never ran the iPod battery dead, and that car was sometimes parked for a week at a time.

UGM10Golf said:

I live in Texas and if I left my ipod in the car for 2 days, I would end up with melted ipod.

Im pretty sure it's because leaving the ipod connected to the cable completes the circut and eletricity will flow in either directions.
If I unplug my phone charger from the wall and still leave it attached to my phone, the red led light still stays lite up. So it pulling electricty from the phone.

Click to expand...

It's not much better here, over 100 degrees several times in the last week. Luckily this car lives indoors.

I'd buy your theory except I haven't yet been able to duplicate any sort of significant power loss across 48hrs with this device under any other circumstances.

I'll try the charger/wall thing tonight.

Thanks for your thoughts!

hehehe.. let me pull something else up from my arse.

IMHO: (theory) maybe the power is going in the form of heat or just into thin air as electrons is flowing through the wire.

So nobody else is having this problem?

I leave my iPod 5th Gen plugged in 24x7 and it has never failed to start when I've wanted to use it. Not sure what to tell you. :-\

Thanks. What's the longest it's ever gone like that between uses?

I would say...2-3 days. It's really hard to leave this car sitting in the garage.

UGM10Golf said:

If I unplug my phone charger from the wall and still leave it attached to my phone, the red led light still stays lite up. So it pulling electricty from the phone.

Click to expand...

I have now tested your theory and found that it doesn't duplicate what happens when I leave the iPod in the car for the same timeframe. I plugged fully charged iPod into a Belkin wall charger for about an hour. Then I unplugged the charger from the wall (the light on the charger went out immediately) but left the iPod plugged in. Approximately 42 hours later - i.e. a couple of minutes ago - I checked it. Predictably the iPod fires right up and shows full battery. It's currently charging back to full capacity, I expect this to take minutes rather than hours.

So to summarize my experiments thus far, the following will run a fully charged iPod battery dead, and has done so at least half a dozen times now:

-using it normally via MDI cable, turning it off, leaving it plugged into the car, shutting off the car, activating the alarm, waiting ~48hrs

And the following will not run a fully charged iPod battery down more than an estimated 5-10% in the same timeframe:

-using it normally via MDI cable, turning it off, unplugging the MDI cable from the device but leaving the other end plugged into the car, shutting off the car, activating the alarm, waiting ~48hrs

-using it normally via MDI cable, turning it off, unplugging the MDI cable from the car but leaving it plugged into the device, shutting off the car, activating the alarm, waiting ~48hrs

-using it normally via MDI cable, turning it off, removing the device from the car but leaving it plugged into an unplugged Belkin wall charger via USB cable, shutting off the car, activating the alarm, waiting ~48hrs

-using it normally via MDI cable, turning it off, removing the device from the car but leaving it plugged into an unplugged Dell laptop via USB cable, shutting off the car, activating the alarm, waiting ~48hrs

Someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong - my only conclusion as of now is that the car is sucking power out of the iPod, and that it's not normal.

Thanks!

getfast said:

I can also confirm that the problem isn't my iPod.

Click to expand...

More on ruling out the iPod as the problem. It is a 30GB Video aka 5th gen "classic" (late 2006 production as per Apple) with about 10GB worth of tunes on it. Prior to all these experiments it was wiped clean & restored in iTunes, it gets sync'd every week or two and will otherwise play at least 10-12 hours on a full charge (through earbuds or aux cable) with no problems or issues.

My first thought was that it was an iPod battery problem since that's far older and more used than the car in question, so I took it in to the Apple store, they tested it and told me it was just fine, and told me I didn't need to replace it yet.

And as per my post just above this one, the ONLY time it goes dead in 2 days is when it's powered off and left plugged in under the armrest. Otherwise I have been 100% unable to duplicate the problem. What I'm still trying to figure out is... is this normal for these cars or should I bring it up with the dealership. And are they just gonna say "big deal, unplug it when the car's gonna be parked for a few days."

So confusing

getfast said:

As I alluded to at http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3000532&postcount=8 a month ago... I can now confirm that my car will drain an iPod battery in about 48 hours if the device is turned off but left plugged in via MDI cable. I can also confirm that the problem isn't my iPod.

Is this normal? And if so, why the hell would they make the car so you can't leave an iPod in there and forget about it? It's annoying to have to pull up the armrest and disconnect the thing anytime I'm not driving the car constantly.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I'm no electrician either, so I can't speak to what direction current flows. I can confirm that I have had my car for 2 months, and have left my iPod plugged into the MDI cord in the armrest from day one. I have left the car at the airport for a week and never had any trouble. The car has always started, and the iPod is always available for playing music. I can't imagine why your battery drains down.

Sorry.
AA

there goes my theory...

From your research it appears the MDI iPod cable does not have a diode in it to prevent the iPod from back feeding current into the car electrical system. That is probably what is running down your iPod. It is trying to charge the car (so to speak).

Have you tried jump starting the car with your iPod?

I have not found this to be a problem with either a 2nd gen. Nano or 5th gen Touch. My tunes start right up when I start the car. But I can certainly see it's a problem if you leave the car for a few days, pull the pod and try and listen to some tunes.

Hahaha thanks. It's an annoyance at best - if that's what they all do, fine - but I have a feeling that this isn't normal, really just a hunch. And it is a bit of a pain, plus it's needlessly wearing out my iPod battery.

I am now trying to borrow another iPod - specifically a 5th gen nano - to see if that's any different. The only other thing I have to test it with is an iPhone 3GS, and I absolutely can't do without that for 48hrs

Regardless the car is going in for the 90-day courtesy check next week, I'll see what they say.

Thanks again to all who responded!

Just got the car back from the courtesy check and a 20-hour stay. They didn't find anything wrong, but they also didn't have it long enough to see what I'm dealing with. From the receipt...

"Customer states iPod power will drain in 48hrs if left plugged in and vehicle is off - check and advise."

"Could not duplicate - car is operating according to manufacturer's specifications. This is because the iPod is staying awake when the cable is plugged in but the vehicle has 'gone to sleep' and is no longer charging the iPod. This is normal and is done to keep the battery of the vehicle from being run down."

So I'm confused as hell now. I plug the iPod in when it's powered off, the car recognizes it via MDI cable and powers it up and charges it, but then when I turn the car off it doesn't shut off the iPod??? It leaves it on forever which is what runs the battery down - does that sound like it's working normally?

(Note: that's also not what we found when I locked the gf in the car and had her stare at the iPod screen indefinitely - it powered itself off after a few minutes.)

This isn't over; time for more testing, and testing with a Nano, when it's not 100+ degrees outside.

Yesterday, after letting my car sit for a little over 24 hours, I tried to que the iPod up, and only the Aux port would activate. I take the iPod out of the console and it says "Very low battery, please wait".

So, I stand corrected in my statement above. I too have experienced the iPod battery drain after letting the car sit.

Let me add a variation to the symptoms: I have the factory installed MDI in the armrest and an 5th gen iPod connected since a year now and all worked fine, no drain, no crash on the iPod.

That was until this morning.

On starting the car the iPod wouldn't show up and on the iPod display it said "Very low battery, please wait". It wouldn't respond to the common restart procedure. When plugged into my computer I had to completely restore the iPod and reloading all my music, which is currently going on.

So my question is, how is it possible that the iPod battery was completely drained overnight and the iPod needs a restore, while this setup has worked flawlessly for over a year?

The only thing I can think of which changed lately was the RCD system update about a week ago ...

@ getfast:

I have the same iPod and the same problem, though it usually takes more than 3 days (I've been riding my motorcycle a lot this summer). I do know that many (but not all) USB circuits will drain iPods -- your Dell setup "should" also cause the problem if the computer sleeps, for example, so I'm puzzled that it doesn't.

But here's a workaround I use. If you get in the car and the iPod is dead (the dreaded "No Media" message), just leave the radio on for about five minutes as you drive and the iPod will charge up enough to begin using it.

The only potential downside to this is that if you leave the iPod discharged for a long period, it could ruin its battery. So if you know the car will sit for more than a few days (I only unplug if I anticipate a 5-day or longer period), go ahead and endure the hassle of unplugging. Otherwise leave it hooked up and use the workaround.

-dan

Thank you sir. Agreed, just driving around for 5+ minutes before selecting media solves the problem of the device not being recognized. As does unplugging it and leaving it in the center console when the car is parked for more than a day. However, neither of these are fixes. The first option in particular is causing two or three full charge cycles on my iPod every week at this point, which means I'll be buying a new iPod battery sooner than expected (which seems totally unnecessary.)

I want to know exactly how and why this happens - why it appears that the MDI will turn on a powered off (whether it's locked or not) iPod, charge it the whole time, make the music available via the Media button, then never turn it all the way off when the car is powered down and locked. I've never heard of such silliness. The technology is obviously available, I had a circa-2006 $150 Alpine in my 1998 BMW that had a $30 cable and it turned my iPod off just fine when the car was powered off, so why can't a circa-2010 factory VW system do the same?

Anyway between this issue and the skipping at the beginning of each song and display delays (next song title doesn't pop up for a while if at all), I escalated this up the chain, past my local dealership and even past VW customer care. I was told not to do the firmware update that is available on the internets, I was specifically told to take the car to the dealership, have 'em open a certain kind of ticket, then call the special tech line, because there is no TSB for any of this. Haven't done that yet, can't do without the car for 3+ days right now (especially since my nearest dealership doesn't do loaners)... maybe next month, we'll see.

Just poking my head in to ask why not just unplug the iPod before you leave the car? I'd never consider leaving any electronics plugged in to my car let alone a wall charger for so long unattended. And as a follow up question, is it really a hassle to endure unplugging an iPod from a cable?

Don't misunderstand my intent here, I am not trying to be a wise guy or anything like that, I would honestly just never even think that leaving my iPod attached to an MDI cable while not in use or unattended an option.

Perfectly legitimate question. The answers are:

1) Because I'm a creature of habit and I often forget to;

2) Because I still don't think I should have to (my prior car with older/lesser technology didn't do this, nor do many other TDIs just like mine apparently);

3) Because this radio has other iPod related issues too, which leads me to believe it's faulty;

4) Because nobody - from my local dealership all the way up the VW ladder - has yet been able to explain to me why this happens, or convince me that this characteristic is normal.

@ brenodo:

Well, let's reverse the situation to test your assertion that unplugging shouldn't be a hassle.

Do you use any 12v accessories in your car? If so, would you call it reasonable if you had to unplug the cigarette lighter cord every time you shut off the car to prevent the car's battery from running down to dead flat? Me neither.

This is not a huge issue, true, but it is worth discussing and pinning down because it is a flaw in the design.

-dan

Exactly, thanks Dan. I leave my iPhone charger plugged in 24/7 and it powers off when the car does, why shouldn't my MDI'd iPod do the same?

getfast said:

Thank you sir. Agreed, just driving around for 5+ minutes before selecting media solves the problem of the device not being recognized. As does unplugging it and leaving it in the center console when the car is parked for more than a day. However, neither of these are fixes. The first option in particular is causing two or three full charge cycles on my iPod every week at this point, which means I'll be buying a new iPod battery sooner than expected (which seems totally unnecessary.)

Click to expand...

FWIW, mine does the exact same thing as you describe. Was very annoying the first time it happened, but I've just modified my behaviour to unplug the ipod before I hop out of the car for the evening/day/whatever.

This is my first VW, and I suppose the "correct" answer is to just chalk it up to part of the car's "personality" I guess...

getfast said:

I want to know exactly how and why this happens - why it appears that the MDI will turn on a powered off (whether it's locked or not) iPod, charge it the whole time, make the music available via the Media button, then never turn it all the way off when the car is powered down and locked. I've never heard of such silliness. The technology is obviously available, I had a circa-2006 $150 Alpine in my 1998 BMW that had a $30 cable and it turned my iPod off just fine when the car was powered off, so why can't a circa-2010 factory VW system do the same?

Click to expand...

Perhaps the diode (or lack thereof) theory makes the most sense...?

getfast said:

Anyway between this issue and the skipping at the beginning of each song and display delays (next song title doesn't pop up for a while if at all), I escalated this up the chain, past my local dealership and even past VW customer care. I was told not to do the firmware update that is available on the internets, I was specifically told to take the car to the dealership, have 'em open a certain kind of ticket, then call the special tech line, because there is no TSB for any of this. Haven't done that yet, can't do without the car for 3+ days right now (especially since my nearest dealership doesn't do loaners)... maybe next month, we'll see.

Click to expand...

I don't have the display delays (that I've noticed much at least), though did have one that I think was more related to the audio file itself being slightly corrupted than a flaw in the interface. My guess as to the root cause of these behaviours is that the interface itself is just really, really slow (either in terms of latency or bandwidth or both), coupled with the head unit having a tiny or too-small data buffer for digital audio.

Regarding the MDI interface: Ever notice how slow.as.balls the GUI is when you have a lot of songs in your playlist? Or even just a large number of playlists? Super annoying.

Regarding the digital audio buffer: my satellite radio cuts out basically the instant the antenna loses sight of the satellite... other Siriuis/XM units I've seen seem to buffer a minute or two of audio to smooth out interruptions like that.

I don't suppose anyone knows where we could find technical specs on these components???

ahizzle said:

This is my first VW, and I suppose the "correct" answer is to just chalk it up to part of the car's "personality" I guess...

Click to expand...

I'd buy that, if anyone could tell me it was in fact normal.

Dealership said it was "normal" right after they said they "could not duplicate." Then my contact at VW didn't say this was normal, he specifically told me to take the car in...

And don't even get me started on the sat radio... it sounds horrible and cuts out constantly! I was considering cancelling it even though it's free for another month and a half.

@danham: I do unplug anything that might be plugged in to the 12V system with the exception of quick runabouts around town, when parking for lengthy visits or overnight or longer I habitually unplug all electronics in my car and at home as I too am a creature of habit...

@getfast: fair enough, our habits are different - to me it just makes sense to not leave things plugged in